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Old 05-25-2016, 07:09 AM   #2793
flere-imsaho
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle View Post
But why? It's called GAME of thrones. In any game there will be stronger players, ppl who can manipulate the rules (or bend them) to suit them, and then there's weaker players, or those who aren't able to use all facets of the game to win. The Starks just might be the weakest players of this game. They might not be suited to playing a game against better players like the Lannisters or Littlefinger. Sometimes it goes that way. There's the misconception that the Starks "have" to win because they're the first family that was featured on the show. They can all die, nothing is promised. Whatever makes for a good story is all I'm concerned about.

If the first book showed anything, it showed that GRRM was going to, if not upend traditional fantasy tropes, then subject them to a heavy dose of historical-based realism.

Having written my Masters thesis on the time period from which he says he draws his inspiration (15th century England, especially the Wars of the Roses), I can tell you that pretty much every "good guy" was cut down in the end, and it was generally those who played the game the best who made out in the end.


Case in point. When Henry V died in 1422 he left only a 9-month old son as heir. It was somewhat-traditional to appoint a regent in these cases but that didn't happen here. The obvious choice would have been the older of Henry's two surviving brothers, who was John, Duke of Bedford. But Henry had been clear he wanted Bedford in France acting as Regent of his conquests there (which had been, basically, half of France - Henry V was a truly gifted military commander, but that's a story for another post).

The other surviving brother was Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester. Gloucester, who would later be credited with bringing Italian Humanism to England through his patronage (and founded Oxford University's Bodleian Library), did pronounce that Henry had wanted him to be Regent in England, but was not able to produce anything to that effect.

A characteristic of Henry V's time in England was the large number of prominent nobles all roughly the same age. This was probably due to generational aspects stemming from a temporary cessation of the Hundred Years War in the late 14th century following Edward III's death. The fact that Edward had 5 sons who survived infancy (4 of whom had issue) and 4 daughters who survived infancy (although only 1 of whom had issue) certainly played a part.

Henry V's force of personality (and the fact that he was well-liked) kept this large coterie of nobles focused on the same goals and fully in support of him. He would not be the first leader to use a war to create unity, and he wouldn't be the last.

His untimely death, however, opened up a significant power vacuum that Gloucester simply hadn't prepared to occupy. Into the void stepped Cardinal Beaufort (roughly 10 years Henry V's senior, but still part of this generational group, and also a descendant of Edward III). Beaufort convinced the other nobles that a Gloucester Regency would have been a disaster (a point I place doubt on in my thesis), and instead a Council was formed.

Gloucester would litigate against this in the court of public opinion for the rest of his life (he would die in 1447, ironically the same year as Beaufort). And the seeds of discontent that were sewn (and weren't helped by successive setbacks in France) were a large part of what became the Wars of the Roses itself in the 2nd half of the 15th century.

But, here's the thing. Up until his death Gloucester was convinced that Henry wanted him to be Regent in England. The other person who would know for sure, of course, was Beaufort, who had been a close confidant of Henry's for just as long, if not longer.

Well, in 1979 a researcher at Cambridge, trawling through archives, found what was later confirmed to be the very last Will and Testament for Henry V. And it explicitly names Gloucester as Regent. So, not only was Henry V's last Will & Testament successfully suppressed (almost certainly by Beaufort), but it was done so successfully that it didn't surface for 500 years.

And that, my friends, is how you play the Game of Thrones (IRL).
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