[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Yes parents were and still are informed when students are having a discussion about sexual intercourse. Well not really sexual intercourse they don't discuss that. It is more like a discussion about sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancies. And yes when there is a discussion of that manner, yes the parents can opt out. Either way, I am positive there are no discussion about sexual intercourse or STIs in those younger classrooms. I am pretty sure no one on the board is advocating for those kind of discussions in those younger classrooms There is definitely discussion about pregnancies aka a possible result of a heterosexual sexual relationship when the teacher is someone who can and does get pregnant. I have not heard anyone say anything about the stork recently Surprisingly, most kids are not corrupted by knowing that the teacher is going to have a baby, are sometimes allowed to touch the pregnant belly to feel the baby move and even hear about the baby's sex* when they ask if the teacher knows whether it's a boy or a girl. Again, it does not seem to be an issue for anyone.

* https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex Definition 1a

I'm not sure why you have provided the definition of sex? The FL law says below? Let's use your example of the stork. I don't see the law as stopping teacher from say "yes, I'm going to have a baby with my husband/wife/significant other" and stop there (e.g. no instruction)? If I'm mistaken, quote me a passage in the FL law.

Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

Of all people, you know better than anyone. Words matter. I gave you very specific examples where classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identities has occurred, is occurring and will continue to occur. Those are the terms in the law. The law is not meant to protect those children from those instructions. Again, by third grade, students have learned about using the appropriate pronouns for the appropriate people for example. Why is that an issue now?

Definitely words & definitions matter (and so does context, degree/scale). I've already conceded the law can be interpreted in different ways and scenarios will come up where it will be fought/challenged in a court of law (which is not uncommon).

Sure by third grade kids know pronouns. You are saying by teachers teaching kids I/me/they/them/he/she etc. they have been "instructed" on "gender identity"? I don't think so and don't think any court would agree with that as the intent of the law. But hey, someone wants to bring it up, let's get a ruling and get it on the books.

I think what you are really saying to me is "look, this law isn't about instructing on all sexual orientation or gender identity, it is really about instructing on LGBTQ sexual orientation or gender identity", I agree with you. It really is that regardless of the more neutral wording in the law. I'm still okay with leaving those discussions for parents to handle for 3rd graders and below.

Fixed that for ya! I would actually respect DeSantis more if this is what he put in the law. This is what he is trying to achieve. Maybe we can add some other things that parents can opt their children out of. Can a parent who does not believe in the new way they do math opt out of that? What about an opt out of history because it does not fit the parent's view of that history?

I'm not sure why you added & highlighted above. I'm really talking about 3rd graders and below. I will concede I haven't quite pinpointed when is the appropriate time for "instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity". I had earlier said middle school which is 11-13 (vs 3rd grader at 8-9) and this seems right to me.