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QuikSand · 01-14-2024, 11:30 AM

Ok, I’m going to document my trials in Monster Train
I’m trying to win with this setup:

Primary clan: Wurmkin (pink, relies on charged echoes)
Secondary clan: Melting Remnant (blue, uses reformed creatures after defeat/burnout)
Hero: Echowright. Using the Repeater upgrade
So, the Repeater returns one, eventually two, Consumed spells back to your hand each turn. That mechanic seems central to getting the most of this build… and I am not good at it, apparently. I have tried this setup several times, and only managed to get to levels 5-6-7 where I get crushed.
I’m hoping a fuller documentation like this might help me think more clearly ahead, and to have a deck better suited to surviving these middle levels.

Opening cards:
2x Echo transfer: +15 attack should help boost up our combat units
2x Molded: reform the unit I want, rather than random
1x Ambient Change: 0 cost, tag Consume on three used spells (I don’t play this often)
Artifact: units get an extra upgrade spot
Artifact (for 15 shards): Resin Block – friendly unit dies gets +10 attack (narrowly choosing this over Waxer Snuffer – Extinguish abilities trigger an additional time)

Ok, so my thinking is: with blue I always get into boosting up my attack units and trying to be strong in melee combat… here I will try to also lean into the Consume spells… and will do my best to leave it at that. I think mission drift is my main weakness here… this write-up is forcing me to type out what I’m thinking, so let’s hope that works better than usual.
Path: so, I tend not to spend time on this, but I’m trying to improve, so here goes… let’s look at the path ahead. For me, I want to focus on the Hellvents where we get a chance to duplicate a card – I will keep an eye on those spots (after stages 2, 4, and 7… I think this is a mildly variable thing) to ensure I have maxed out a card for each of them.
Bosses: sharps pay attention to this in advance, I want to start doing so more aggressively…
-Daedalus
-Fel
-Seraph the Patient

Along the way, I read/saw a guide that said to be on the lookout for certain things that are hard to defeat for many decks… as I try to relocate that, from memory:
-a line with TWO tough front units, rather than one
-a line with a troublesome unit IN BACK
-(one more major thing here I am forgetting)

Okay, I’ll summarize the play quickly until something interesting happens:

Rd 1: overloaded with reform spells with nothing to reform, damaged down to 51, ugly start

Gains: Bog Fly i (small unit powers up with echoes), Entombed Explosive (tomb bomb)
Add a Remnant banner unit Paraffin Thug (makes $ on slay, good essence to transfer) and give the Bog Imp multistrike and +5/+5/burnout1 (to take advantage of the Resin Block artifact +10 on every death…plan will be to duplicate this unit and have two one-space expanding attackers)… ugh not enough coins to afford this, because I missed the bonus fairy thingie dammit – so just mutlistrike

Artifact for 15 shards = Fade’s First Blade – gain Rage 3 when loses burnout (good fit)

So I’m fairly deeply committed to strong attacking units here, and as usual have overlooked the consume spells that are supposedly a centerpiece of the deck

Round 2: Barbed Disciples, lots of spikes to handle here. Not easy, but no damage.

Gains: Total Recall I – return 3 spells from discard and apply consume, should help cycling spells if I can get some useful ones, but it’s a Consume also… and Hallowed Drippings I – Consume spell adds 5 burnout to my burnout units on that floor, helpful boss killer and a consume spell

Event: Divine Artifact for one round (yuck), I take draw 2 after playing 3 cards, stupid event

Okay, I choose the side with the hellvent duplicator, but no upgrades there… caves and a new remnant unit… I get Lady of the Reformed (tank front helps with burnout when she is attacked), and we leave a lame Echo Break spell card with a traitorous Winged to get it back upgraded later… lousy random events here… I still duplicate the Bog Fly, though I wish it had burnout to accelerate its demise to boost up… dammit.. I skip the $100 for 15 shards, my shard count is 30 now

Round 3: Daedalus – Raging bogfly beats the boss on lowest level, solid.

Gains: Hmm, applying Endless is often great, but with lots of blue reform cards, I think not here… I take the infused Devourer of Death, essence is to damage all enemies by 15 when extinguished, I expect I will use that rather than the Soul-based unit itself (but maybe this should be a skip?)…and now I take a novelty card, the [url=https://monster-train.fandom.com/wiki/Bounty_Stalker[/url] so this changes the whole game I think, not sure it’s for the better (maybe just steer away next time?)

So, now I will be working hard to get the bounty stalker killed to improve its attack permanently, or maybe will fuse that essence (halfway, +4 permanently) into a Bog Fly that I already want to die a lot?
Ok, I get a Divine Temple here, so I get my shot to combine an essence…I choose the side with a Remnant Unit in hopes of something crazy there, but get another Lady, yawn… but there is a +5/+5/Burnout1 upgrade here… so maybe put that onto a Bog Fly and then merge in the Bounty stalker essence (+4 attack permanently)? I don’t love the drop from +8 to +4 but I think this is the best move I have at hand. Hmmmm, make it endless, too? I lose the temporary bump from being reformed, but it seems like that increases the chances to get it dead rapidly… I’ll do it.

I take shards to power up my Echo Breaks…maybe that’s a leak too? Not a central part of the deck maybe skip it? (I always do this, and it’s not working, so…)

Okay, now the deck is coming together. Bog fly units are the key attackers – get them dead a lot, especially the one that gains permanent bonus attacks, he’s endless for the late stages too. Consume spells don’t feel strong but one good artifact could give them damage potential or something, so maybe that still comes together.

Round 4: Protectors of the Clipped – Took damage 80 to 59, ugh. Only 2 deaths for the SuperFly, he’s now 13x2/10
Gains: Revenge of the Damned (direct damage, chance to gain echoes), and Crushing Demise kills one of ours, one of theirs, great card for any blue deck – both great additions, neither are Consume spells though

Event: Winged offers upgraded spell, I say later (lame)
Hellvent side of course, I dump a couple weak stewards and heal up 20, then we get another Divine Temple before the duplication… I make Crushing Demise free (-1 kinda) … don’t love my essence options so I drop Devourer into my Explosive tomb, which will now do 50 to the front and 15 to everyone upon demise. It’s a weapon to attack a weak back unit. Want to add power to that Revenge card too for that purpose.

So…the hellvent. Duplicating the SuperFly seems like the obvious play, get two potentially pumped up endless attackers for the later rounds is appetizing. The other choice might be the free Crushing Demise. I’m in for the Fly guy. Up to 135 shards, to baddies are going to be pretty tough.

Level 5: Harvesters of Death – SuperFlies handle the boss on level 2, no damage, smooth.
Gains: Returned Soul (bring back discarded spell, apply infused and consume), Moral Entrapment (Deal 25 and Daved 3 onto already damaged unit – nice boss killer)

Event: Winged gives me back my Echo Break, now has zero cost and “add copy to discard pile” so priority to pump that up now.
I get to forge spells here and also a Temple, fortuitous, so I give that card a +10 and piercing. Some other minor buffs, no more combining essences… we are up to 160 shards now. I’m likely done with units. I don’t feel that this deck is really strong enough to handle a big boss… need to really juice up the SuperFly cards…this is the area where my decks like these tend to get swamped.

Round 6: Fel – Baddies all get armor from Fel (better than rage), statues in front get spell shield. Guy from third wave gets through for damage down to 42. Superfly attacks up to 57 and 45… not great, but we boost them with buffs in combat, they attacked for 100+ by the end of last round.

Gains: I skip the first card, best option was a double-buffs-and-armor, all bad fits… I choose the rare red upgrade, as I’m rarely short on space now with main units only single spaced…
I choose to go for cash, spell+ and artifact…the artifact is Pyre +15 attack yawn, I upgrade a Echo Break to +50 with consume, put Holdover on Crushing Demise (!) and cheapen a couple reform spells to free. Hero now recalls two consumed spells to my hand, ought to be cycling some fairly good stuff now.

[b]Round 7: Shadewings – these guys have big defense and spikes, hide attackers behind huge front units, I have arms for this but will be tough.

Battle: bad start, two sacrificial units. I draw Crushing Demise, though so round two is better, with two Lady cards also, but no SFly cards. Things settle down, we get all thee Flies (including the two SuperFly cards with permanent boosts from each demise) in play, and the SuperFlies beat the boss on the third level, with room to spare. Solid.

Gains: Wurmkin Etchings, returns 5x consumed spells to top of draw pile, might interfere with Endless Flies, but I think I can manage that…I take Memories of the Melted (I ember for each friendly death in this battle, consumed spell, nice addition)

Ok, I get another hellvent to duplicate again, last chance at that… I’m thinking it’s the Crushing Demise with holdover, leave the two flies as “enough” there. Artifact gives Pyre +40 health, okay. We're ready for the big angel.

Round 8: Seraph the Patient – Okay, serious fight here. Shards 170 adds to the difficulty.

Battle: early unit on third floor gets through for damage down to 120. CD wipes out a unit each round, my Echo shots are pumped up enough to take out 25-health units now, so we clear wave 2 easily. Get to the relentless phase for Seraph in decent shape, with 2 SuperFly cards and a CD in hand… but that isn’t nearly enough damage to Seraph. He’s solo on level 2, and the CD is now useless… I draw a Lady who gives my Fly guys a couple extra turns, but Seraph is doing 76 trample damage and I’m only getting him down to 1850 health on this level, we will need a rabbit out of the hat on level three. Yikes.

Level three, he’s at 77T/1800 and while I have 2x Fly cards and the spell to give them +5 burnout, I need a “pain sponge” up front badly. I have two random reform cards, but I don’t think I have what I need in the deck to be honest. Pull a fucking 20/13 steward and my 175/45 Echowright…this ain’t gonna do it, I’m cooked here. His first attack will kill my whole floor. Fuck.

I must have messed up the math a bit… I will get 580 damage on him from the back Fly guys it seems (ah, they have Stealth 1) but even adding their Burnout +5 won’t save them from dying in the second cycle. So, yeah, fuck.

Seraph wins with 1200 health in reserve. He makes quick work of our Pyre, and it’s over.

Fin.

01-14-2024, 11:30 AM	#14
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Ok, I’m going to document my trials in Monster Train I’m trying to win with this setup: Primary clan: Wurmkin (pink, relies on charged echoes) Secondary clan: Melting Remnant (blue, uses reformed creatures after defeat/burnout) Hero: Echowright. Using the Repeater upgrade So, the Repeater returns one, eventually two, Consumed spells back to your hand each turn. That mechanic seems central to getting the most of this build… and I am not good at it, apparently. I have tried this setup several times, and only managed to get to levels 5-6-7 where I get crushed. I’m hoping a fuller documentation like this might help me think more clearly ahead, and to have a deck better suited to surviving these middle levels. Opening cards: 2x Echo transfer: +15 attack should help boost up our combat units 2x Molded: reform the unit I want, rather than random 1x Ambient Change: 0 cost, tag Consume on three used spells (I don’t play this often) Artifact: units get an extra upgrade spot Artifact (for 15 shards): Resin Block – friendly unit dies gets +10 attack (narrowly choosing this over Waxer Snuffer – Extinguish abilities trigger an additional time) Ok, so my thinking is: with blue I always get into boosting up my attack units and trying to be strong in melee combat… here I will try to also lean into the Consume spells… and will do my best to leave it at that. I think mission drift is my main weakness here… this write-up is forcing me to type out what I’m thinking, so let’s hope that works better than usual. Path: so, I tend not to spend time on this, but I’m trying to improve, so here goes… let’s look at the path ahead. For me, I want to focus on the Hellvents where we get a chance to duplicate a card – I will keep an eye on those spots (after stages 2, 4, and 7… I think this is a mildly variable thing) to ensure I have maxed out a card for each of them. Bosses: sharps pay attention to this in advance, I want to start doing so more aggressively… -Daedalus -Fel -Seraph the Patient Along the way, I read/saw a guide that said to be on the lookout for certain things that are hard to defeat for many decks… as I try to relocate that, from memory: -a line with TWO tough front units, rather than one -a line with a troublesome unit IN BACK -(one more major thing here I am forgetting) Okay, I’ll summarize the play quickly until something interesting happens: Rd 1: overloaded with reform spells with nothing to reform, damaged down to 51, ugly start Gains: Bog Fly i (small unit powers up with echoes), Entombed Explosive (tomb bomb) Add a Remnant banner unit Paraffin Thug (makes $ on slay, good essence to transfer) and give the Bog Imp multistrike and +5/+5/burnout1 (to take advantage of the Resin Block artifact +10 on every death…plan will be to duplicate this unit and have two one-space expanding attackers)… ugh not enough coins to afford this, because I missed the bonus fairy thingie dammit – so just mutlistrike Artifact for 15 shards = Fade’s First Blade – gain Rage 3 when loses burnout (good fit) So I’m fairly deeply committed to strong attacking units here, and as usual have overlooked the consume spells that are supposedly a centerpiece of the deck Round 2: Barbed Disciples, lots of spikes to handle here. Not easy, but no damage. Gains: Total Recall I – return 3 spells from discard and apply consume, should help cycling spells if I can get some useful ones, but it’s a Consume also… and Hallowed Drippings I – Consume spell adds 5 burnout to my burnout units on that floor, helpful boss killer and a consume spell Event: Divine Artifact for one round (yuck), I take draw 2 after playing 3 cards, stupid event Okay, I choose the side with the hellvent duplicator, but no upgrades there… caves and a new remnant unit… I get Lady of the Reformed (tank front helps with burnout when she is attacked), and we leave a lame Echo Break spell card with a traitorous Winged to get it back upgraded later… lousy random events here… I still duplicate the Bog Fly, though I wish it had burnout to accelerate its demise to boost up… dammit.. I skip the $100 for 15 shards, my shard count is 30 now Round 3: Daedalus – Raging bogfly beats the boss on lowest level, solid. Gains: Hmm, applying Endless is often great, but with lots of blue reform cards, I think not here… I take the infused Devourer of Death, essence is to damage all enemies by 15 when extinguished, I expect I will use that rather than the Soul-based unit itself (but maybe this should be a skip?)…and now I take a novelty card, the [url=https://monster-train.fandom.com/wiki/Bounty_Stalker[/url] so this changes the whole game I think, not sure it’s for the better (maybe just steer away next time?) So, now I will be working hard to get the bounty stalker killed to improve its attack permanently, or maybe will fuse that essence (halfway, +4 permanently) into a Bog Fly that I already want to die a lot? Ok, I get a Divine Temple here, so I get my shot to combine an essence…I choose the side with a Remnant Unit in hopes of something crazy there, but get another Lady, yawn… but there is a +5/+5/Burnout1 upgrade here… so maybe put that onto a Bog Fly and then merge in the Bounty stalker essence (+4 attack permanently)? I don’t love the drop from +8 to +4 but I think this is the best move I have at hand. Hmmmm, make it endless, too? I lose the temporary bump from being reformed, but it seems like that increases the chances to get it dead rapidly… I’ll do it. I take shards to power up my Echo Breaks…maybe that’s a leak too? Not a central part of the deck maybe skip it? (I always do this, and it’s not working, so…) Okay, now the deck is coming together. Bog fly units are the key attackers – get them dead a lot, especially the one that gains permanent bonus attacks, he’s endless for the late stages too. Consume spells don’t feel strong but one good artifact could give them damage potential or something, so maybe that still comes together. Round 4: Protectors of the Clipped – Took damage 80 to 59, ugh. Only 2 deaths for the SuperFly, he’s now 13x2/10 Gains: Revenge of the Damned (direct damage, chance to gain echoes), and Crushing Demise kills one of ours, one of theirs, great card for any blue deck – both great additions, neither are Consume spells though Event: Winged offers upgraded spell, I say later (lame) Hellvent side of course, I dump a couple weak stewards and heal up 20, then we get another Divine Temple before the duplication… I make Crushing Demise free (-1 kinda) … don’t love my essence options so I drop Devourer into my Explosive tomb, which will now do 50 to the front and 15 to everyone upon demise. It’s a weapon to attack a weak back unit. Want to add power to that Revenge card too for that purpose. So…the hellvent. Duplicating the SuperFly seems like the obvious play, get two potentially pumped up endless attackers for the later rounds is appetizing. The other choice might be the free Crushing Demise. I’m in for the Fly guy. Up to 135 shards, to baddies are going to be pretty tough. Level 5: Harvesters of Death – SuperFlies handle the boss on level 2, no damage, smooth. Gains: Returned Soul (bring back discarded spell, apply infused and consume), Moral Entrapment (Deal 25 and Daved 3 onto already damaged unit – nice boss killer) Event: Winged gives me back my Echo Break, now has zero cost and “add copy to discard pile” so priority to pump that up now. I get to forge spells here and also a Temple, fortuitous, so I give that card a +10 and piercing. Some other minor buffs, no more combining essences… we are up to 160 shards now. I’m likely done with units. I don’t feel that this deck is really strong enough to handle a big boss… need to really juice up the SuperFly cards…this is the area where my decks like these tend to get swamped. Round 6: Fel – Baddies all get armor from Fel (better than rage), statues in front get spell shield. Guy from third wave gets through for damage down to 42. Superfly attacks up to 57 and 45… not great, but we boost them with buffs in combat, they attacked for 100+ by the end of last round. Gains: I skip the first card, best option was a double-buffs-and-armor, all bad fits… I choose the rare red upgrade, as I’m rarely short on space now with main units only single spaced… I choose to go for cash, spell+ and artifact…the artifact is Pyre +15 attack yawn, I upgrade a Echo Break to +50 with consume, put Holdover on Crushing Demise (!) and cheapen a couple reform spells to free. Hero now recalls two consumed spells to my hand, ought to be cycling some fairly good stuff now. [b]Round 7: Shadewings – these guys have big defense and spikes, hide attackers behind huge front units, I have arms for this but will be tough. Battle: bad start, two sacrificial units. I draw Crushing Demise, though so round two is better, with two Lady cards also, but no SFly cards. Things settle down, we get all thee Flies (including the two SuperFly cards with permanent boosts from each demise) in play, and the SuperFlies beat the boss on the third level, with room to spare. Solid. Gains: Wurmkin Etchings, returns 5x consumed spells to top of draw pile, might interfere with Endless Flies, but I think I can manage that…I take Memories of the Melted (I ember for each friendly death in this battle, consumed spell, nice addition) Ok, I get another hellvent to duplicate again, last chance at that… I’m thinking it’s the Crushing Demise with holdover, leave the two flies as “enough” there. Artifact gives Pyre +40 health, okay. We're ready for the big angel. Round 8: Seraph the Patient – Okay, serious fight here. Shards 170 adds to the difficulty. Battle: early unit on third floor gets through for damage down to 120. CD wipes out a unit each round, my Echo shots are pumped up enough to take out 25-health units now, so we clear wave 2 easily. Get to the relentless phase for Seraph in decent shape, with 2 SuperFly cards and a CD in hand… but that isn’t nearly enough damage to Seraph. He’s solo on level 2, and the CD is now useless… I draw a Lady who gives my Fly guys a couple extra turns, but Seraph is doing 76 trample damage and I’m only getting him down to 1850 health on this level, we will need a rabbit out of the hat on level three. Yikes. Level three, he’s at 77T/1800 and while I have 2x Fly cards and the spell to give them +5 burnout, I need a “pain sponge” up front badly. I have two random reform cards, but I don’t think I have what I need in the deck to be honest. Pull a fucking 20/13 steward and my 175/45 Echowright…this ain’t gonna do it, I’m cooked here. His first attack will kill my whole floor. Fuck. I must have messed up the math a bit… I will get 580 damage on him from the back Fly guys it seems (ah, they have Stealth 1) but even adding their Burnout +5 won’t save them from dying in the second cycle. So, yeah, fuck. Seraph wins with 1200 health in reserve. He makes quick work of our Pyre, and it’s over. Fin. Last edited by QuikSand : 01-14-2024 at 11:32 AM.