[Edward64]

I just checked to make sure. Passacaglia did not say anything about opening up U.S. immigration laws. I did not say anything about opening up U.S. immigration laws.

The statement in question is you and him agreeing to below when we were talking about illegal (and legal) immigration.

My question to @Passacaglia was predicated on his statement

Here's my rationale ...

1) Currently, the US does NOT support citizenship for whoever wants it (legal or illegal)
2) As President miami_fan/passacaglia, you support citizenship for whoever wants it (legal or illegal)
3) Therefore, for this to happen, you would need to "opening up US immigration laws".

Question - if 1-2 is true, but you say 3 is not true, then how else would giving "citizenship for whoever wants it" happen?

I also don't know where you come up with the idea that everyone wanting to come to the US will want citizenship.

Not everyone but majority. Other than for tourism, seems pretty logical assumption to me under current circumstances, it's Occam's Razor. There are so many benefits to having it (and US allows dual citizenship). And even more so, if President miami_fan was to support anyone (legal, illegal, all over the world) who wants it to become a US citizen.

We have people currently leaving in the US who have no desire to become citizens and have made the call to live and die here without ever being citizens and I don't have an issue with that either.

About 48% of all immigrants in the US currently are not citizens and only a third of them are eligible for naturalization.

Sure, there are always some exceptions. There'll probably be more progressives leaving if Trump wins. Obviously can't prove it (no polls) but we do have 158M-160M that pick US as first choice of country to come and live permanently.

Although, there are no specific polls that I could find, just indicative data points

As of 2023, there were an estimated 12.7 million lawful permanent residents (LPRs), also known as green card holders, in the United States. In 2023, almost 1,173,000 people became LPRs, with 52% of them already in the country. The top countries of birth for new LPRs were Mexico, Cuba, and India.

In fiscal year 2023, 878,500 lawful permanent residents (LPRs) became U.S. citizens through naturalization. This was a 9% decrease from the previous year, when 969,400 immigrants became citizens. However, it was a 40% increase from 2020, when 628,300 immigrants became citizens.

Although not apples-to-apples (5+ year wait complicates the calculus), seems to be a pretty high conversion rate to me if taken at face value.

So yeah, there are many impediments to citizenship (5 years in the US, backlogs, maybe lose home passport because no dual citizenship, lack of language skills etc.) but make it more easy for them, IMO even more permanent residents will want convert to citizens.

Even the mention of everyone wanting dual citizenship is strange to me. Honestly, I have never heard anyone being concerned about every one immigrating to the US trying to hold dual citizenship. You know who is trying to get dual citizenship in droves? Native born Americans are trying to add citizenship of other countries to the US citizenship!

No, it's not a big deal that I know of. But it helps, it's a benefit for the immigrant to maintain both if home/US allows it. But it is on my mind per an old quote ...

11) I don't agree with US allowing dual citizenship. Probably a small matter in the big scheme of things but it eats at me. I understand US citizens benefit from this also from other countries (e.g. Canada)

So for the last time, if someone wants to obtain US citizenship and is willing to go through the process, yes I support them becoming citizens. If they want to become a permanent resident and go through the process, I support them becoming a permanent residents. If they want to just live here without becoming a citizen and/or only stay temporarily before going back to their home country, I support them. If they risked their life to help us fight during a war and are now a marked man woman or child in their home country and they want to come to the US, I support them and their families coming to US and immediately getting US citizenship if that will help protect them and their families' lives. I am sure there are more scenarios that I can't think of right now.

I agree with all of that except the bolded. It seems you are okay with anyone going through the legal process to become PR and citizen. I'm good with that, that's what I want.

To be clear, you are saying you would let anyone come to the US, stay, work etc? Or are you saying only those that go through the legal process of getting a work visa? Because if its the former, then you are definitely "opening up US immigration laws".

Check back with me when we reach 100 million new citizens a year, I might change my mind then.

So I take it you won't attempt to answer the question below?

Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
In below thread, I answered how I would handle the 11M+ illegals as President.

POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion - Page 88 - Front Office Football Central, see starting #4351

The question ...

Similar question to you: how would you handle the 158M+ (and the 11M+ illegal) adults that want to immigrate? or (newly added) ... anyone if they want to just live/work here without becoming a citizen