[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Well I am discussing political will in regards to legal immigration. I will leave the illegal immigration discussion for anyone else.

Fine, we can shift and going forward, only talk about legal immigration.

But for the record because there are some that think I change the goalposts, your posts in this recent discussion starting a page back reflect we were talking about legal & illegal immigration.

You are correct. Nothing that just involves employment based visas but...

What Happened To The Bills On Employment-Based Immigration?

I won't bother responding to the other quotes but stick on HR 1177 above. The others are similar. As indicated, this is not a single, specific bill (employment based visas), HR 1177 included a bunch of stuff ... including pathing to citizenship.

The very first line in congressional summary of HR 1177.

This bill establishes a path to citizenship for certain undocumented individuals.

I have stated previously ...

No, I am not at all optimistic there is the political will. I've stated the crux of the problem is Dems want pathway to citizenship for the 11M+ illegals, the GOP do not.

Politics is much more complicated than that. With broader immigration reform or even one that is primarily focused on border security, there are many other points/proposals to consider which results in needed negotiations and ultimately, compromise.

You want us to go back to doing stuff like this?!

The U.S. Government Turned Away Thousands of Jewish Refugees, Fearing That They Were Nazi Spies | Smithsonian

No. We could easily have absorbed several hundred thousands. US pop in 1945 was about 138M.

But if hypothetically, 11M+ wanted to come over. Or 158M+, yes I would certainly create quotas with whatever categories, and control the immigration.

The statements provided a line of reasoning for what the Danes have chosen to do for their country that was based on their more homogeneous population and their values. I don't believe those lines of reasoning fit with our more diverse population and our values. Because I don't think they fit with our more diverse population and our values, I don't think the U.S. should be role modeling these policies or use these countries as a example for us to do the same here.

I can't pinpoint a specific time (and don't want to research it) but it stands to reason there was a time in the US that we had a more homogeneous white population. I strongly suspect if that was today, you would be calling out racism. I'm okay with what the Danes are doing but IMO you are giving the Danes an easy out.

The Nordic countries have been upheld as the paragon of progressiveness. If they have come to this point where there are real right-wing pressure on immigration, IMO it tells you that unbridled immigration is not the answer. And that it's not just "racist" Americans.

You imply "culture & values" come into play (along with economics etc.), and I agree with you. I think it's normal for countries to assess all the pros & cons, assess what is best for the country, be selective (and prejudicial) and control legal & illegal immigration.

Can you please explain what you mean when you say "the US does not support citizenship?" Maybe that is what is not clear. Do you mean if I support the government handing out certificates of naturalization as people cross the border or move through customs and not after going through the steps of naturalization? If that is what you are talking about, then no I don't support that. But I am not making it impossible for someone to go through those steps just because. And neither does the US government.

Yeah, pretty much the bolded. So when you say you agree with below ...

And yes, I support citizenship for whoever wants it.

The US does not give out US citizenship for anyone that wants it. So good to know that you do not support that.

You support a person to be able to apply, and if eligible, get permanent residency? And then support that person to become naturalized through the legal process?

If this is true, then we have no disagreement with key words being "eligible" and "legal". Legal process also implies the country quotas are accepted. There is already a legal process for all non-felon illegals to go through. Essentially, leave the US and if eligible, apply to become a PR (and then eventually Citizenship). It's not impossible.

But, I suspect you want some thing "more" for the 11M+ illegals, not just the current legal process.

Question - no need to answer as it is tangential and just a thought exercise ... but I would be interested in knowing how President miami_fan would go about implementing the below? Assume you own Congress for the next 2 years, what policies would you change, what would you implement?

And yes, I support citizenship for whoever wants it.

And yet the number is the number. But let's say that is the case. Why are you suggesting that we need to stop allowing people to become U.S. citizens in FY 26, FY36 etc. That is the American dream.

I have proposed the number is 11M+ illegals (I think we both agree) and 158M+ (which may be in dispute, but note that is adults, have to add +kids). Using my numbers, you are talking about increasing US citizenship population by approx 50% in 10 years. Name me one country that has increased their citizenship population by +50% in 10 years?

(You have some ME countries increasing workers but they don't have voting rights, so not same thing)

I fully embrace the American dream for immigrants becoming citizens legally. But I certainly don't want to break the country and American dream for current PR/citizens. Hence, we need controlled (and selective) immigration which 158M+ in 10 years is not.

Those are not impediments, those are requirements. The requirements for citizenship. If a person is a LPR, wants to become a citizen, and fulfills the requirements just like EVERYONE ELSE has for x number of years, no one should be putting another layer of requirements or putting any more barriers in place to prevent that. We've done that shameful BS already.

Requirements can be impediments, not mutually exclusive. And backlogs are certainly not a "requirement".

I am only talking about the legal process. I will only ever talk about the legal process. I am saying that I will let ANYONE that goes through the legal process in place to immigrate to the US. I also believe that if we actually opened up the immigration laws(not open borders) to make the immigration process less nonsensical, we as a country would be better off.

We've been talking about legal & illegal immigration. If you are stating that illegal immigration should follow the legal process, then we have no disagreement. And going forward, will accept we are only talking about legal immigration.

Note that the current legal process does not provide for a way for illegals to become PR/citizenships (other than arguably a few examples like DACA, birthright citizenship) while still in US. They have to leave the country, apply and if eligible, get accepted as PR and then naturalized years later. I'm okay with that.

I have already spoken on the 11M+ that are here but I can do it again. Actually I will engage in some bipartisanship myself and let someone I don't usually see eye to eye with make the case.

- YouTube

Not a good example. I'm pretty sure most (other than the 3M illegals) will say the bill was a failure. It did allow the amnesty to happen but didn't do the other stuff that was to stop it from happening again ... and here we are, going through it all over again but this time with 11M+ illegals.

But hey, one back at you. Here's Bill Clinton ... short clip but see 50 secs in for "we are a country of immigrants, but also a nation of laws"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IrDrBs13oA

The 158M+ that want to immigrate would be handled just like everyone. If we maintain the pace of calendar year 2023 of 1.6 million legal immigrants, it will be another 98.75 years before they all get here.

Fine. Good to know your definition of "support citizenship that wants it" means support letting anyone go through the current legal process of applying, determining eligibility, getting PR and then citizenship. No unconstrained immigration, no fast track for illegals becoming citizenship (they have to leave and reapply). Absolutely, no problem with that.