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Old 03-12-2018, 02:27 PM   #621
whomario
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by AENeuman View Post
Opps, I took your comment on the need for armed people in schools as an attack on civil liberties. You are saying, why should there be armed people when just getting rid of guns is the solution?

If so, what I think is truly a false equivalence is saying what works in a nation of 53 million or 24 million in Australia is somehow directly related to a nation of 325 million. For example, the US has 737 people per 100,00 incarcerated, England: 148, Australia 125. So maybe there are a lot more things that need to be addressed before we can ever get to "just take the guns away and all will be good"

Population numbers seem a weak argument when also accounting for the amount of "federalization" and considering that population density (much smaller in AUS, much bigger in UK/Europe as a whole) doesn't really seem to be the issue.

If you dig into it there isn't actually significantly more crime, violent or otherwise, in the US than in other developed countries (and why yes Donald, we get the same movies and Videogames, often with less restrictions even) and in many cases less crimes both violent and otherwise. The issue here might be that for some reason (paranoia seems a good bet) you have developed a culture/legal system resulting in a disproportionate number of both arrests and incarcerations relative to the number of crimes committed. Not that crime actually is a bigger problem.

In any case: Just because it wouldn't eliminate crime, wouldn't it be worthwhile to make sure that more crimes result in a headache or broken bone rather than landing the victim in a casket ? Or that more suicides fail rather than succeed, thus at least giving a chance of the person's environment (and of course the person itself) to react to this ?

I will link it again, since it pretty much lays the issue out perfectly: America’s unique gun violence problem, explained in 17 maps and charts - Vox



And yes, those numbers can be verified (with slight variations of course, as is the nature of these sort of overarching stats) elsewhere and per-capita stats show a similar picture.

Really the only difference is the homicide rate and it seems quite far-fetched to assume that americans are especially homicidal (yet not particularly more inclined to commit any other crime) or more deeply affected by all the same movies/video games and not that the convenient access to superior killing instruments plays the major role here. I mean, people have got to realize the connection eventually.

And again: The necessary goal isn't "No Guns" (Canada has a ton of Guns, as has Germany) the issue is the quantity, the easy access and the resulting attitude towards them being essentially nothing different than a fishing rod or a kitchen knive. Germany has a ton of guns, but you have to jump through a few hoops to get them and more importantly to sell them/manufacture them/trade with them.
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Last edited by whomario : 03-12-2018 at 02:45 PM.
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