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Originally Posted by stevew
I guess Boston gets the Lakers pick next year if it's 3-5 or the Kings pick the following year. I mean the Lakers basically need to trade out of #2 now just to screw the Celtics, right?
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Lakers if it's 2-5. But either way no shot at Michael Porter. And I feel if the Lakers want to screw Boston, just picking Josh Jackson #2 would do it. I'm less high on Lonzo than most, but even for his fans, if any part of this trade was about positional fit, Lonzo is clearly a PG prospect like Fultz & clearly a worse one.
But after contemplating it, since we don't even get both picks & Lakers 2018 is protected #1 this isn't Ainge turning an asset into more or potentially more lucrative assets, it's him negging Fultz and saying not only do I think the difference between Fultz & Jackson isn't nearly as great as every independent draft observer believes, but that every NBA team who could trade a star also believes the difference between Fultz & #3 is overrated. Because I don't see how offering #3 + the Lakers pick if it's 2-5 next year or the Kings pick in 2019 if it doesn't convey is sexier to the Bulls (etc) than offering the rights to Fultz.
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Originally Posted by wustin
Does this mean Boston is looking to trade some assets to get Jimmy Butler then sign Hayward?
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No. They've been hoping to do something along those lines regardless of this trade. This isn't drafting Kris Dunn over Jaylen Brown - what part of this entices the Bulls?
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Originally Posted by Groundhog
Kinda feels to me like the Celtics are reluctant to commit one way or the other, still gathering assets while also trying to lean on FA to get championship pieces immediately.
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Fultz was the perfect delaying tactic... Gave them 1 year to see his development, IT's return from hip injury, (and if anything happens next 12 months with LeBron getting old/going to LA or the Warriors Core) before deciding if a near or long term.push made sense. Could still pursue Hayward/Griffin this summer (would just need to.make a trade of a guy like AB or Jae if Hayward agreed & wanted the extra $2-3m/y our current cap holds prevent us from.offering, but I would salary dump either for nothing if it guaranteed us Hayward.) Would still have multiple extra good 1st round picks (Nets 2018, Memphis 2019).
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Originally Posted by Chief Rum
I have felt that way for some time, which is why I am hoping they finally get off the pot this summer and go all in to get some combo of Butler, Hayward, Blake, whatever to get up to true title contender. Bishop disagreed with me when I said this before, but I still think Ainge is a massive hoarder whom has, to this point, been too chickenshit to take a chance and move forward. Bishop thinks the Cs are aiming to dominate after the Cavs-Ws dynasty years (not an unfair conclusion).
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Nah, I was *hoping* the C's understood the IT/Horford "core" was probably not going to dethrone LeBron & certainly not dethrone him & the Warriors, and thus were aiming for a window 2020 on. Once KD declined our offer & signed with the Dubs last July I don't believe there was any pushing in of future assets we could've done to have a real chance at the title this June. And I'm very glad we didn't go the Raptors route of pushing in multiple assets for marginal upgrades only to still get murdered when it really counted. Unlike the past trade deadline I do think there is a path to immediate championship contention here (even with the Dubs), I would just prefer a potential 10 year run in the uncertain future landscape than one with a very short shelf life going up against a dynasty in its prime.
Butler, Heyward, (& Blake if you aren't terrified of his health), are young enough they could be win now pieces and part of a potential future championship team built around Fultz/Jaylen/current 19-20 year olds. They made sense to go after regardless of what timeline you think the Celtics should pursue. (Though I suspect GarPax never had the desire/ability to go full rebuild & thus never a reasonable price point they were willing to trade Butler for.) But pushing in all those Celtics assets for pending UFA's at the trade deadline or last year's draft instead of just waiting until this summer didn't make sense. You're a Clippers fan - even if GM Doc wasn't in charge what could we have offered for Blake Griffin that front office might've actually traded him for? Would the massive overpay necessary for them to officially break up the CP3/Blake/DJ trio have made any sense for us to give up when Griffin might just sign with us this summer at a cost of zero draft picks?
And while I strongly disagree with this move and think hoarder might be a fair term right now, I don't believe chickenshit is a word you can use to describe Ainge - he's staking a huge part of his reputation against Fultz turning into a star.