[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Edward,

I am going to try to move this forward by getting rid of some chewed on bones and try to bring us back to the point of the thread.

Agreed.

1. Believe me, I promise you, I do not need you to explain or to present the possible reasons why DeSantis put this into law. He has made it perfectly clear why he did it. He presented evidence as to why he believes it was correct. His evidence does not stand up to the scrutiny in a similar manner as the information you provided here. I have presented what I believe to be solid evidence that showed the inaccuracies of most of that evidence and in some cases the evidence of what actually occurred. If you believe the law is required as written based on its substance, please present whatever you believe to be solid evidence and/or reasoning that it is needed.

Sure, here's my reasoning.

1) There are certain topics, discussions, instructions etc. that should be deferred to parents vs teachers especially to 3rd graders and younger
2) Teachers, as a whole, are no better able/prepared to teach some of these topics, discussions, instructions than parents to their own 3rd graders
3) There is obviously a push to get more sexual awareness (including LGBTQ but not exclusively so) into high-middle school. This is okay as I would consider these instructions age appropriate
4) There is obviously a push to get more sexual awareness (including LGBTQ) into elementary/3rd grade
5) The FL bill (and other similar state bills that have passed or in progress) proactively addresses this by restricting what teachers can "instruct" at 3rd grade
6) As a parent, I support this under the key assumption it is applied consistently

2. Yes, there may or may not be court cases to define what classifies as instruction means in this law. If and when that happens we can have another discussion after that decision is made. In the mean time, can you please tell me what you consider to be instruction of sexual orientation and gender identities as of today? Please keep in mind that heterosexuality and male/female need to be included in your considerations because we are banning all of it. So whatever you attempt to allow for heterosexuality and male/female dynamics, you are also allowing for homosexual, pansexual, non binary, genderqueer etc. Note that the law as written does not make a distinction between a mention and an instruction. Obviously, the Governor did not want to allow a mention to be up for such a consideration. So please only discuss instruction.

I'm not sure I can encapsulate in a nice clear sentence the definition of highlighted in your paragraph. So let's use the samplings I provided to illustrate what I consider clear cut difference between "instruct" vs "mention".

As quoted in prior post ...

To get a sense of of what this public school district is teaching the children in its care, and what the new LGBT curriculum in all Illinois public schools will look like starting next school year, let’s look at a [b]few selections from their preschool and kindergarten curriculum for this week. This is for children ages 3 to 5.

Teachers were given a lesson plan on slides that include movies and a teaching script to show and say to the children each day of the week. The children are shown, among other things, a video of someone reading aloud the book “Heather Has Two Mommies,” famous transgender teen Jazz Jenning reading his picture book “I Am Jazz,” a book read aloud on video called “My Princess Boy,” and the apparently highly awarded video below. The script tells teachers to use materials like these throughout the year, not just during LGBTQ+ Equity Week.

I am Jazz. The story of a transgender child based on the real-life experience of Jazz Jennings, who has become a spokesperson for transkids everywhere

My Princess Boy. A heartwarming book about unconditional love and one remarkable family.

Dyson loves pink, sparkly things. Sometimes he wears dresses. Sometimes he wears jeans. He likes to wear his princess tiara, even when climbing trees. He’s a Princess Boy.

If the above narrative is accurate and kids 3-5 were shown videos in class of someone reading those 2 books, I would call that "instruction" of sexual orientation or gender identity.

Question - do you agree this is an example of "instruct"?

3. The discussion is about third graders and younger. If you want to have a discussion about 4th graders and older, that is for when there is a bill for those age groups. The curriculum for those age groups are for those age groups only and should not be given consideration when discussing the younger age groups. It is disingenuous to suggest that because "they" are using a certain line of instruction for middle school students, there is a possibility that "they" may bring that exact line of instruction to the the 3rd graders. Because of the uproar on this issue, most states have placed at the very minimum their standards for these subjects online and many states have included the curriculum. I would much rather scrutinize and if need criticize what the authorities have actually put into place as opposed to speculation of what might be or worse.

I was asked why I thought DeSantis created this bill. LGBTQ curriculum in middle-high school is very likely something he saw as evidence of wokeness which he thought he could leverage. I'm sure that's a key rationale and not disingenuous in me bringing it up as I answered the question.