Quote:
Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie
That doesn't follow at all. The only way it would be true is if Americans actually followed good dietary habits, and I think we both know that's not remotely true.
The problem isn't the food recommendations, it's the personal and societal factors that have the average American consuming $1200 worth of fast food per year with 20% of meals eaten in the car. Even worse is the "healthy" options at those places. A chicken salad at BK is arguably worse than 3 hamburgers there. Don't get me started on the "healthy" organic and clean garbage of places like Chipotle and Panera. |
I agree with you, and I don't think that our opinions are exclusive. The intersect is that I think American food culture is entirely fucked up, and that extends to doctors and dietitians. Americans are obsessed with the idea of the calorie, and have abstracted all food into abstract numbers that can be moved around and manipulated in ways that make mathematical sense, but at some point we lost the lead and began judging food and nutrition by the numbers entirely...and we're just not very good at it. Whatever numeric indicator we were using for health 5-10 years ago is no longer considered accurate, just like whatever came before it, and just like whatever will come after.
And if we acknowledge that personal and societal factors are what drives a nation's health than how is a nation's collective health care providers not partially responsible for driving that health? We have entire national agencies staffed by doctors and dietitians specifically charged with regulating the quality of the nation's foods and health, how can the nation's health and diet not be considered a reflection and result of their collective actions? In some way American culture has failed uniquely, crucially and historically at recognizing the benefits of food and diet, and if that's the case who cares what an American licensed dietitian has to say if that license is based entirely inside a culture that has demonstrated repeatedly over the course of history that they understand and/or care less about food & diet than any other culture on the planet? Would you trust the advice of THEE MOST WELL RESPECTED & CREDENTIALED North Korean agriculturalist?
Again, I'd point to your own example of that USNews report which ranks all of those diets worth on caloric intake, weight-loss, and ease of use, which are all particularly American obsessions that don't even necessarily apply to the stated purpose of each particular diet in the first place. There is a category for 'safety' which massively downgrades the Whole30 simply for excluding whole groups of foods, with a similar criticism to that of the nutritionist you sent out earlier "Why exclude grains and legumes when you could get some of the same nutrients that you get from vegetables?". Sure, I absolutely could be getting the same nutrients in grains in legumes that I am
already getting from fruits and vegetables, but to point to that as a safety issue is absolute bullshit that makes me question the entire process (as I hope it would anybody who claims to think 'scientifically')....there is no claim that I could be getting more, better or different nutrients, just that I COULD be getting them from somewhere else, and downgrading the diet massively as a result.
Lastly, I am very resistant to Science as faith, and right now that's how your argument is striking me. I don't consider myself anti-science, but in these days where so many folks seem to treat Science as 100% reliable without looking at anything but the results, I think it's worthwhile to consider that scientific fact is actually fluid and history has shown that likely 20% of what we think of as proven fact today will turn out to be flat out wrong in the future. You're pointing to scientists and dietitians as proof that your opinion is correct, but haven't cited any actual content/science to give any clue as to whether you yourself have any experience (or even interest) with what you're talking about. Obviously, dismissing everything confirmed by science is even more of a fool's game, but that said if I were to look around at all of history's evidence piled up and guess at something that American science probably has wrong right now, I don't think it would be a bad bet to go with 'diet'.