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Jeremessiah · 02-15-2020, 02:22 PM

Because there's a lot of names here I don't recognize: I'm the ungentleman who has been running an an allpass gameplan in the OSFL+FFL+CCFL+GML. I've been doing it a long time, I always make weirdo gameplans and when I tried 100% pass with the new FOF8 gameplanning I came up with a system that wasn't terrible. My first impression was to wonder why people weren't already doing it, but after joining some other leagues I saw others were starting to push the envelope as well. I've discussed the situation at length in those leagues, and Dawgfan has given a quick picture of the situation in the FFL. Tzach certainly has some additional elements to his playbook that I hadn't considered, and his attention to detail in teambuilding is much greater than mine, the latter alone is what makes him so hard to beat. I am not hard to beat, btw I'm 3-7 in the FFL right now due to allpass shakyness, and having an objectively terrible defense.

Dawgfan, I actually enjoy your commentary on my FFL team even though you hate my style, I spend more time on the FFL boards recently just to see what you've got to say and I respect your approach to the "problem" of allpass gameplans. I agree with you that the allpass is not inherently overpowered, I think my own MP results speak for that as I've never won a bowl outside the GML and have never been better than 100ish QBR even though I've had multiple 7500-8000yd+ seasons. I agree with you that non-optimized allpass teams like mine are at worst a statistical nuisance (I'd say a beautiful display of historic magnificence but we disagree there) but my teams have never been consistent threats to win titles in my 20+ MP seasons not counting the GML. Optimized teams can be extremely dominant, but that's not only true with allpass.

Optimized teams of any style are extremely dominant, if we use the "it wins too reliably and can't be stopped" argument to eliminate offensive styles or GMs from MP FOF, then the FFL should've kicked Dawgfan out decades ago for winning approximately 50 of the last 30 Superbowls. However I understand the need to balance any PVP game, in Magic: The Gathering for example if a certain card/build shows up at a pro tour event in too high a percentage because everyone feels they need to play it or they can't compete, that's when they consider house-ruling the card by restricting or banning it. I don't believe the allpass had become even remotely dominant in MP FOF yet, and personally I don't think it ever would've been any more unstoppable than a well built run-heavy team. I agree with Dawgfan that the community has really been slow on the uptake with how to stifle these gameplans, allpass exposed a weakness in the metagame's defensive adaptability and their win% could be reigned in with just stepping it up defensively. GET GUD, as the kids say, and no it's not as simple playing Cover3 with whatever players you have. Some GMs act like there should an "Easy Button" for stopping the allpass like as soon as you know you're up against it you can just play X defense and it's an easy win. Knowing is only half the battle, every Dcoordinator in the NFL knows wtf Andy Reid is up to, they looked at every single play he's run for years, it's still really hard to stop.

You will always have guys like me who play for the love of doing something different, and I'm going to push the limits under whatever set of house rules. I don't focus on championships. If I get great offensive stats I'm not inherently bothered by going 8-8, I'm trying to build great careers and break records and put guys in the HOF. I'm very proud of the Big Cheese's career, but even in the GML he won only 1 superbowl in a league with no injuries and no ability for my opponents to play pass-only defenses. Dawgfan is correct to say I will not quit passing 100% until there is a hard stop. I love house rules, they make different leagues special so I will always follow the rules but (this is REALLY important) I will not keep my enjoyment of the game on a leash just because my weirdness bugs people. This is online PVP football guys, it's not a message board healing circle. I'm not supposed to do what's best for you and your team, I give very little thought to how much others will enjoy me building my team or gameplans.

That brings me to my main disagreement, the reaction I am most bothered by from the anti-allpass folks, which is that the strategy is somehow violates the Great Unwritten Code of "sportsmanship" decided upon by the high council of FOF elders. If a league votes out an owner, or votes in a house rule, I have no problem with that. If a human is simply strongly disliked by 20 people in MP then I'd say they played their cards wrong, and as stated before I am pro-houserule. However, I don't ever think it should ever be a commish, or group of 3 people or whatever, that decide to boot someone for either A: Winning too much, or B: Breaking too many records. Those are the only well-defined criticisms of the allpass I've heard, and I do not like people insisting it violates the spirit of the game because they personally are bothered by it. Maybe I'm bothered by you guys winning so many Superbowls while I get none. Maybe Dawgfan should peel back on his stranglehold of playoff glory in the FFL because just think how it makes others feel? I've heard enough commishes/GMs express an unwillingness to houserule or boot allpassers so I don't think it'll be a problem, but I would urge the strongest haters to consider they don't have the consensus they think they do, and if they can't exactly define what should be designated in a house rule then it shouldn't be a vague rule enforceable on the whim of NFL fundamentalists.

I'm not surprised people are frustrated by 8.3 since it was blanket solution that in some ways made the problem worse by making it harder to pass for all teams while the allpass enthusiasts can minimize their exposure to the changes in much the same way we adapted to 8.2. We're adaptable sonsabitches

how we came to develop these gameplans and teambuilding approaches was through studying the game, personally I run SP tests in 1000 season samples, so I'll figure out how to get my best results whether it's 90 QBR or 100 QBR. It is obvious that a more popular tweak would've been to strengthen a diminishing returns system for passing via familiars, etc, but Hammer is likely correct that would be too much work for Jim at this point for FOF8.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

02-15-2020, 02:22 PM	#100
Jeremessiah n00b Join Date: Jul 2018	Because there's a lot of names here I don't recognize: I'm the ungentleman who has been running an an allpass gameplan in the OSFL+FFL+CCFL+GML. I've been doing it a long time, I always make weirdo gameplans and when I tried 100% pass with the new FOF8 gameplanning I came up with a system that wasn't terrible. My first impression was to wonder why people weren't already doing it, but after joining some other leagues I saw others were starting to push the envelope as well. I've discussed the situation at length in those leagues, and Dawgfan has given a quick picture of the situation in the FFL. Tzach certainly has some additional elements to his playbook that I hadn't considered, and his attention to detail in teambuilding is much greater than mine, the latter alone is what makes him so hard to beat. I am not hard to beat, btw I'm 3-7 in the FFL right now due to allpass shakyness, and having an objectively terrible defense. Dawgfan, I actually enjoy your commentary on my FFL team even though you hate my style, I spend more time on the FFL boards recently just to see what you've got to say and I respect your approach to the "problem" of allpass gameplans. I agree with you that the allpass is not inherently overpowered, I think my own MP results speak for that as I've never won a bowl outside the GML and have never been better than 100ish QBR even though I've had multiple 7500-8000yd+ seasons. I agree with you that non-optimized allpass teams like mine are at worst a statistical nuisance (I'd say a beautiful display of historic magnificence but we disagree there) but my teams have never been consistent threats to win titles in my 20+ MP seasons not counting the GML. Optimized teams can be extremely dominant, but that's not only true with allpass. Optimized teams of any style are extremely dominant, if we use the "it wins too reliably and can't be stopped" argument to eliminate offensive styles or GMs from MP FOF, then the FFL should've kicked Dawgfan out decades ago for winning approximately 50 of the last 30 Superbowls. However I understand the need to balance any PVP game, in Magic: The Gathering for example if a certain card/build shows up at a pro tour event in too high a percentage because everyone feels they need to play it or they can't compete, that's when they consider house-ruling the card by restricting or banning it. I don't believe the allpass had become even remotely dominant in MP FOF yet, and personally I don't think it ever would've been any more unstoppable than a well built run-heavy team. I agree with Dawgfan that the community has really been slow on the uptake with how to stifle these gameplans, allpass exposed a weakness in the metagame's defensive adaptability and their win% could be reigned in with just stepping it up defensively. GET GUD, as the kids say, and no it's not as simple playing Cover3 with whatever players you have. Some GMs act like there should an "Easy Button" for stopping the allpass like as soon as you know you're up against it you can just play X defense and it's an easy win. Knowing is only half the battle, every Dcoordinator in the NFL knows wtf Andy Reid is up to, they looked at every single play he's run for years, it's still really hard to stop. You will always have guys like me who play for the love of doing something different, and I'm going to push the limits under whatever set of house rules. I don't focus on championships. If I get great offensive stats I'm not inherently bothered by going 8-8, I'm trying to build great careers and break records and put guys in the HOF. I'm very proud of the Big Cheese's career, but even in the GML he won only 1 superbowl in a league with no injuries and no ability for my opponents to play pass-only defenses. Dawgfan is correct to say I will not quit passing 100% until there is a hard stop. I love house rules, they make different leagues special so I will always follow the rules but (this is *REALLY* important) I will not keep my enjoyment of the game on a leash just because my weirdness bugs people. This is online PVP football guys, it's not a message board healing circle. I'm not supposed to do what's best for you and your team, I give very little thought to how much others will enjoy me building my team or gameplans. That brings me to my main disagreement, the reaction I am most bothered by from the anti-allpass folks, which is that the strategy is somehow violates the Great Unwritten Code of "sportsmanship" decided upon by the high council of FOF elders. If a league votes out an owner, or votes in a house rule, I have no problem with that. If a human is simply strongly disliked by 20 people in MP then I'd say they played their cards wrong, and as stated before I am pro-houserule. However, I don't ever think it should ever be a commish, or group of 3 people or whatever, that decide to boot someone for either A: Winning too much, or B: Breaking too many records. Those are the only well-defined criticisms of the allpass I've heard, and I do not like people insisting it violates the spirit of the game because they personally are bothered by it. Maybe I'm bothered by you guys winning so many Superbowls while I get none. Maybe Dawgfan should peel back on his stranglehold of playoff glory in the FFL because just think how it makes others feel? I've heard enough commishes/GMs express an unwillingness to houserule or boot allpassers so I don't think it'll be a problem, but I would urge the strongest haters to consider they don't have the consensus they think they do, and if they can't exactly define what should be designated in a house rule then it shouldn't be a vague rule enforceable on the whim of NFL fundamentalists. I'm not surprised people are frustrated by 8.3 since it was blanket solution that in some ways made the problem worse by making it harder to pass for all teams while the allpass enthusiasts can minimize their exposure to the changes in much the same way we adapted to 8.2. We're adaptable sonsabitches how we came to develop these gameplans and teambuilding approaches was through studying the game, personally I run SP tests in 1000 season samples, so I'll figure out how to get my best results whether it's 90 QBR or 100 QBR. It is obvious that a more popular tweak would've been to strengthen a diminishing returns system for passing via familiars, etc, but Hammer is likely correct that would be too much work for Jim at this point for FOF8. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk Last edited by Jeremessiah : 02-15-2020 at 03:05 PM.