Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
On the first part, I have read a lot of studies that say too much soy does increase estrogen levels. In fact I read a long one recently that advocated for soy, but still admitted that it does raise estrogen levels slightly. And I have read a lot about isolated whey and casein and have never read any research stating they raise estrogen levels (but if you have some, I would be interested in reading).
For the second paragraph, you are probably right that I don't need 300 grams a day (I actually average 240-300, but I had read a lot that stating it is good to take in 1 gram per pound of body weight, so I try for that and have had excellent results. Additionally, doing that keeps me content with my diet and helps me feel full throughout the day. If some of it is converted to energy then that is fine. And it's certainly not stored as fat. Before my bulking phase I had lost 35 pounds while consuming that amount of protein. But like you said, everyone is different. I didn't start with that amount, but have found that I have the best results with that. Regarding the negative impact of protein on your kidneys, liver etc... all the research I have read states that there is absolutely no negative health impacts on either of these as long as you drink enough water (with the 250-300 gram range I mentioned). I do know there are some people who take in 400+ grams a day and even I would admit that is way overboard.
I think a large issue is lumping in meat together. All these studies talk about animal products, but don't seem to be differentiating between the dozens of individual products. Yes, if you eat a lot of beef, pork, dark meet chicken, that is definitely bad for you. I exclusively eat white meat chicken, tuna and white meat turkey on a daily basis which has very little cholesterol. My cholesterol levels are good, at this point at least.
I have read a lot that says eating lean chicken, turkey and fish is good for you. None ofthe studies I have seen pointed out in this thread seem to specifically study the effects of specific animal products independently. If in the one study just talked about that extra 15% of animal products included whole milk, eggs with yolk, beef, etc... (as I would bet they did) then of course results would indicate that lowering animal products from 20% to 5% would be good
It sounds like you are in fantastic shape and and have a much better overall life after going with no meat, so well done. For me, having been significantly overweight much of my life, I am very happy with the results that I have had (even if I never reach 8% body fat). And again, this is something I've been dealing with since I was 6, so it's not like I don't have a body of work to measure the kind of results I have had. I think each person needs to do what works for them and I definitely don't think one thing works the same for everyone.
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Soy does contain phytoestrogens, or isoflavens, which effect the way estrogen acts inside your body, but don't actually increase the levels of estrogen in your body. All the studies that I've read about soy and estrogen pretty much focus on this effect on women, and dismiss the effects on men. In particular, breast cancer has been linked to high levels of soy consumption, but I've seen studies say there is no connection. Even so, a vegan diet, as a meat eating diet, should strive to get its protein from as many different sources as possible, so I get a good chuck of mine from nuts, grains, veggies, legumes, etc, and of course some soy products... I read casein and whey and just assumed dairy products, so I'm not quite sure of the effects of isolated casein and whey or if hormones in dairy would get transferred in the process of isolating the protein from the milk, so I'll hafta plead ignorance on this one. I do assume that any animal products that aren't organically raised and drug free are going to have hormones in them that will increase your estrogen levels. I would assume protein powders would be the same, but I really don't know for sure...
That's awesome that you're seeing such good results with that high of a protein intake. My point is that its not entirely necessary to get all that protein to still build muscle and/or lose weight. I used to be firmly in the one gram per pound camp when I first got into fitness, and I got good results as well. But more recently I've found that I have more energy and better results without a diet that's skewed so heavily toward protein consumption. I figured out that if I can replace some of that protein with a raw veggie or fruit or something, I'm going to reap the benefits of that food, while still providing my body with enough protein to build and repair my muscles. At the end of the day, however, a calorie is a calorie, and if you're doing something to burn that calorie off, it doesn't matter where it came from...
Its definitely true that a lot of these studies lump meat as one category, and there's most certainly differing levels in the healthiness of certain meats. Especially, if you're choosing organically raised animals. Factory farms = hormones which messes up the natural balance of the chemicals in your body. I don't necessarily believe that meat is in and of itself is bad for you, but I do believe that the way we as a society produce and consume meat (and other animal products) is.
and I agree with everything in that last paragraph. Every single person reacts to different stimuli differently, and while the basic concepts of diet, fitness, and wellness its up to each person to figure out what works best for them and do it...