...and other NCAA Realignment News..

[MylesKnight]

..Call this the Prelude to the massive Conference Shakedown that may occur shortly, as the Sun Belt Conference has added 2 new schools to its mix as All-Sports Members... Troy State University and the University of Idaho... to go along with another recent addition to the Conference, Utah State University..

Utah State will begin play in the League in Football this Fall (2003), and all other sports will shift from the Big West Conference to the Sun Belt in the Fall of 2005.

Troy State Football will move to the Sun Belt next season (2004) and the rest of its sports programs will be moving in from the Atlantic Sun Conference in the Fall of 2005.

and Idaho, already a Sun Belt Football Only Member, will be joining the Conference for all other sports by the Fall of 2005 at the very latest. They currently compete in the Big West Conference for all-sports minus football.

The Sun Belt will now have 9 Football Playing Programs, with 8 of those schools now being Full Members in the Conference (Louisiana-Monroe is the only Football Only Member left)... Eight is the minimum number of All-Sports Football Playing Members the NCAA requires from a Conference that competes in Division I-A Football..

The new look Sun Belt Football Conference looks like this:

Arkansas State
Idaho
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe (Football-Only Sun Belt Member)
Middle Tennessee State
New Mexico State
North Texas
Troy State (Joining in 2004)
Utah State (Joining this Fall, 2003)


As for the overall Conference in all other sports, it will now have 14 members.. Here's the list:

Arkansas State
Arkansas-Little Rock
Denver
Florida International
Idaho (Joining Fall, 2005 at latest)
Louisiana-Lafayette
Middle Tennessee State
New Mexico State
New Orleans
North Texas
South Alabama
Western Kentucky
Troy State (Joining Fall, 2005)
Utah State (Joining Fall, 2005)


Other recent Team/Conference shifts include:

- The University of South Florida's Football Program moving from an Independent status to Conference USA beginning this Fall. USF already competes in CUSA in all other sports.

- The University of Maryland-Baltimore County moving from the Northeast Conference to the America East Conference.. They are set to join the AEC this Fall for All-Sports.

- Samford University and Jacksonville State University both switching alliances, from the Atlantic Sun Conference to the Ohio Valley Conference, beginning this Fall. This move was made primarily because both schools wanted a Conference home for All-Sports including Football.

- David Lipscomb University is joining the Atlantic Sun Conference beginning this Fall for all-sports. They have competed as a Division I Independent for the past couple of seasons since moving from the NAIA.

- Virginia Military Institute (VMI) is leaving the Southern Conference after being a part of the League for decades, for the Big South Conference. This move is being made primarily so that VMI's Athletic Teams can be more competitive with fellow Conference Members as the Big South is a bit of a step down from the SoCon.. VMI begins play in the Big South this Fall.. Also of note, the Big South's Inaugural Season as a Football Conference is this Fall as well.

- Elon University is basically flip-flopping with VMI as it moves from the Big South to the Southern Conference this Fall.

- Centenary College is headed to the Mid-Continent Conference for All-Sports. Since leaving the Trans America (TAAC), now known as the Atlantic Sun Conference 4 years ago, Centenary has competed as a Division I Independent. The interesting thing about this is when the Gents left the TAAC/ASun they stated the primary reason to be travel expenses to other Conference schools.. but the Mid-Continent is quite a bit more spread out the TAAC/ASun was then or currently is now..

- and one other note, Morris Brown College, which had competed as a Division I Indepedent and as a I-AA Independent in Football, has decided to drop its entire Athletics Program. The Atlanta school is in major financial trouble and may be forced to close its doors entirely in the near future. Good Luck to MBC, but I must say it doesn't look good at the moment.


There are plenty of other rumors and possible scenarios out there of this school moving here or those schools joining up with these schools but these are the most recent moves that have been made. Obviously Samford moving from the ASun to the OVC is nowhere near the media circus that Miami possibly bolting the Big East for the ACC is, but hey I'm just a huge College Sports Fan who gets into these things.. as you can obviously see by reading this post..

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hmm, several interesting things in there that had slipped past me, thanks for the info.

Meanwhile, I think it's time the SunBelt Conference comes up with a name change, 'cause Idaho & Denver make the current one seem rather silly.

[MylesKnight]

I agree wholeheartedly.. Check out this Triangle..

The Sun Belt will now be spread from Moscow, Idaho (Idaho) in the northwest, to Las Cruces, New Mexico (New Mexico State) in the southwest, to Miami, Florida (Florida International) in the southeast..

Maybe the Great America Conference or something... but the Sun Belt name has been around for a while and I really don't see that changing, regardless where this Conference extends further into in the future... (Alaska?)

[MylesKnight]

DOLA AMIGOS!!!


...and one other thing, here's a Link to a Great Site that breaks down possible realignment scenarios for nearly every Division I school in America, including some of the lesser knowns..

Excellent stuff!

[tucker342]

Thanks for the info

[MylesKnight]

No problem Tucker.. I'm just hoping to find some other College Sports Junkies out there and get a discussion rolling regarding these issues..

It's sad when a Poll about "What makes AZSpeechCoach's sister's house stink?" may very well destroy this thread in terms of posts and views..

[stkelly52]

The site about all the possible changes in the conferences mentioned that several teams needed to worry about the new 1A criteria. What is the new 1A criteria?

[MylesKnight]

The NCAA is basically attempting to lose some of the fat from its Division I-A ranks.. Here is the criteria to take effect in the Fall of 2004..


- A 15,000 average attendance mark for Home Games will be required.. and this is not tickets sold, this is actual butts in seats.. (However, the NCAA has stated the new rule doesn't require fans to pay for a ticket. It simply states actual average attendance, period... Freebies included)

- Offer an average of 76 1/2 (90%) of the maximum 85 Football Scholarships over a two-year period.

- Offer 16 varsity sports, with at least six for men and at least eight for women.

- Play five home games vs. Division I-A opponents per season.

- Fund 200 total scholarships throughout a school's entire Athletics Program.

- and as I mentioned before, in order for a Conference to stay recognized as a I-A Football Conference by the NCAA it must have at least eight all-sports Football Playing members.. This was the biggest reason for the Sun Belt's recent expansion..


Now what I'm not sure about is what happens if a school does not meet all of the requirements once they go into effect. I'm sure they'll be some type of warning/probation period where a non-compliant school is given a set amount of time to either get things in order or be moved down to Division I-AA, but I have not read anything about what this timetable would be. Well, that's basically how everything reads..

[JeeberD]

From MK's link:

UTEP
WAC

An unlikely MWC candidate, but still one. The MWC formed to lessen the travel for its members. UTEP was left out of the mix. But they have had impressive football attendance numbers, nearing 60,000 per game. The MWC could consider UTEP (who would be a natural rival for New Mexico) as a member. Ideally, the MWC could add UTEP, TCU, Fresno and Boise St, and avoid the travel problems associated with adding Hawaii. An unlikely MWC candidate, but still one. The MWC formed to lessen the travel for its members. UTEP was left out of the mix. But they have had impressive football attendance numbers, nearing 60,000 per game. The MWC could consider UTEP (who would be a natural rival for New Mexico) as a member. Ideally, the MWC could add UTEP, TCU, Fresno and Boise St, and avoid the travel problems associated with adding Hawaii.

Likely: remains in WAC
Possible: joins CUSA
Possible: Joins MWC
Long shot: Brought in by the Big XII to replace Missouri, should they join the Big Ten.

Sigh...a boy can dream, can't he..?

[MylesKnight]

Hey Jeeber, anything's possible, although that scenario is one of the bigger "reaches" you'll find on that site.. to go along with the possibility of the esteemed academic institution Boise State in the Pac-10 with such schools as Stanford, Cal & UCLA, among others..

UTEP really is kind of in an interesting dilemma though.. Geographically speaking they're kind of right in the middle of no man's land in the WAC, with a lot of seperation between El Paso and and the EWAC schools (Louisiana Tech, Rice, SMU and Tulsa) and even more between UTEP and the western schools in the Conference (Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada, and San Jose State).. Who is UTEP's designated Conference Travel Partner anyway?

The two schools that are within a reasonable distance to El Paso are both in two seperate conferences, New Mexico State in the Sun Belt and New Mexico in the Mountain West.. It would seem to me that UTEP and at least one of these schools is a natural fit for the same conference.. and seeing that UTEP is a long-time WAC member, going back to the days of the old 10 team WAC with the 8 current MWC schools and Hawaii, I'm surprised to see the Miners not mentioned more as a possible candidate to the MWC once that league finally does decide to expand. All I ever hear about when it comes to MWC expansion is Fresno State, Hawaii and Boise State.. I mean UTEP has the facilities (The Sun Bowl - 52,000 Capacity, and The Haskins Center - 11,000+ Capacity), and has shown in the past that they can draw extremely well.. If only the school could work some kind of deal with the Sun Bowl to land that bowl game for its own Conference, I believe the MWC would take them in a heartbeat..

Sometime soon the Mountain West will expand though, taking at least 2 teams from the current WAC, and once this happens I think we'll see some major changes to the WAC and Sun Belt Conferences.. I think they'll be a lot of swapping of schools with the WAC becoming a league consisting of the leftover western WAC schools, and the western Sun Belt schools (New Mexico State, Utah State, North Texas, Idaho, and possibly Denver and Arkansas State) and the Sun Belt keeping it's southeastern members and adding the EWAC schools..

The best deal though, and the one I hope UTEP ends up with, is an invite to the Mountain West and a return to its roots, so to speak where the Miners belong.

Edit: Oh, and one other thing, why is there so much animosity between UTEP and NMSU? It seems as if UTEP won't even entertain the thought of the Aggies as a member of the same conference as them.. Why is this?

[JeeberD]

Wow, MK, you sure are knowledgable about UTEP for someone from Florida. I'm certainly impressed...

First of all, with regards to the MWC, many UTEP fans feel like the MWC schools "deserted" UTEP when they split off to form their own conference. There is now major animosity between the WAC and the MWC. Some UTEP fans wouldn't want to see UTEP join the MWC even if they offered us a spot. Personally, I wouldn't mind at all. I miss the old rivalries against BYU, UNM, CSU, Wyoming, etc. The MWC is more profitable than the WAC, more visible, and I think it would be great for UTEP to be a part of it.

There's been a little bit of talk recently about the possibility of a new SWC or a Texas conference forming (that would include UTEP) due to the fallout of the ACC expansion. There was an article in the Dallas Morning News yesterday about this possibilty, and that's something that I would enjoy seeing as well. My only problem with that I'm not really sure the rest of the country would really care about a conference containing UTEP, SMU, Tulsa, UNT, La Tech, TCU, Rice, Houston, NMSU, and maybe Arkansas St? Would that conference get any ESPN money? Of course, I would really like this conference because I would be able to go to UTEP games at UNT, TCU, and SMU every year...

It looks like UTEP's current traveling partner is Boise State. I guess the WAC just decided to stick the two schools out in the middle of nowhere together...

Regarding NMSU, it's difficult to explain. UTEP administration seems to think that being in the same conference as NMSU will somehow weaken UTEP's fan base. I'm not sure why, but that's apparently what they think. Also, the UTEP-NMSU rivalry hit a new level a couple of years ago. The year after our bowl season UTEP was scheduled to play at NMSU. Well, our AD decided that we needed another home game to get to the five game minimum mandated by the NCAA. UTEP offered to move the game to the Sun Bowl and pay NMSU something like $500,000. NMSU was insulted, they cancelled the game altogether (we wound up playing Texas Southern at home). So each school wound up blaming the othe school for breaking a rivalry that had been running for 86 consecutive years. There's still a lot of hurt on both sides.

In regards to UTEP's facilities, they are really good. A lot of work has been done on the Sun Bowl the past couple of years (new turf, new video screens, "soccer sizing"), including building the
Durham Center, an attachment that now houses the athletic offices, a huge, beautiful new weight room, and overlooks the stadium and downtown El Paso. The Don Haskins center has always been a great place to watch basketball, and it recently has received a new floor and new video screens....

Attendance has been down the past couple of years, but that's because the teams have been miserable too. But basketball looks to be on it's way back up (new coach Billy Gillispie has a top 20 recruiting class coming in), and football certainly looks to have potential. Redshirt freshman Jordan Palmer (Carson's little brother) is likely to be the starter this year and look to have a ton of potential. El Paso is unfortunatly a very bandwagon town. If the teams are winning the fans will come. If the teams aren't winning, only the diehards (and there are a number of them) will come. But if we start winning again (and I feel that they will), the Sun Bowl and the DHC will fill up again.

Also, if you're interested in seeing what UTEP fans are saying, you can go to the MinerDigs.com message board and read what's there. It's nothing compared to this place, but it's probably the most active UTEP board around.

And I'm guessing that's more than most of ya'll ever wanted to know about UTEP athletics...

Edit: And I thought that you weren't going to post here any more, MK...

[kcchief19]

Stable and content but considered a top candidate for invitation into the Big Ten should Notre Dame turn it down again. Pittsburgh has gained some favor for the 12th spot, but Missouri would give the Midwest league the St. Louis market, while Pitt would not add anything that Penn State hasn’t already.

When I was at MU in the early/mid '90s, MU and Syracuse were in negotiations with the Big 10 about joining before everyone involved lost interest. As the above logically concludes, Missouri would likely be the target of the Big 10 if Notre Dame says no (which they will).

However, the Big XII has VERY stiff rules about leaving the conference. A team has to give two years notice and sacrifices most of their shared conference money, so the financial cost is astronomical. That being said, when Missouri and the Big 10 were courting 10 years ago, athletics was actually secondary in MU's consideration -- they were more interested in the academic benefits of being aligned these schools.

Frankly, I think the financial disincentive is the only thing holding the Big XII together. Colorado feels like it gets stiffed, the Oklahoma schools don't like the Northern schools and Baylor is tired of getting its ass kicked. It's possible there is enough interest to drop the requirements and let the schools buy their way out for less.

Very interesting info. I knew about the NCAA's efforts to cut the I-AA fat, but I was unaware of the effect it was having at the bottom of the pool. It does sound as though the NCAA doesn't really have a plan for kicking schools out of I-AA -- they are giving them a chance to shape up or ship out. If the top teams from some of the bottom feeder conferences leave, the rest of the conference is screwed. It sounds like the Atlantic Sun might be one of those.

Does anyone know if the NCAA is changing/has changed its rule about D-I basketball schools must field a I-A/I-AA football team if they play football? That was why Georgetown and some others were forced to go I-AA despite the fact that they didn't want to. I seem to recall one school droppping football so they wouldn't have to jump up to I-AA. I ask this because I have read some articles that administrators at Southwest Missouri State are pushing to drop out of I-AA football so they can be more competitive and save money, but did not know if that was now allowed. If the NCAA is going to kick some teams out of I-A, it could overload I-AA.

[Blade6119]

ASU and Arizona arent leavin the PAC-10...the P-10 has some great academics, and besides business at ASU, neither of the arizona schools are too great. The like being pulled up by stanford and cal....A switch to the bix 12 makes no sense to me.

Though MU wanting to leave the Big 12 doesnt make much sense to me either, as at least in the big 12 there are teams to beat up on...the big 10 is pretty even across the board. But it appears everyone else sees this as likely...so, i wouldnt trust me too much

[MylesKnight]

(EL BUMPO!!)

Excellent comments Jeeber, KC, & Blade, definitely some follow-ups to come...

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

From MK's link:



Sigh...a boy can dream, can't he..?

Hey, 21 years later and we finally made it into a watered-down version of the MWC!