POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Passacaglia]

Stupid (but honest) question - if you don't determine citizenship based on birth, how do you determine it?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I too would be upset and lash out if I spent the past year being wrong and had to watch the party I unconditionally support eat shit in historic fashion.

Dude, you talk more shit and know so little about me, even after 20+ years here. You listen so little you think you have it all solved. You run around here like Chicken Fucking Little year after year. That one time you can act like your right about something you shit all over everyone just to boost your own ego. Rinse and repeat.

I'm only lashing out at your incredible asshattery.

[Edward64]

Wanted to know how the House race is going.

Per NPR at late morning today ...

Here are the House races that haven't been called yet : NPR

Democrats need a net gain of 4 seats to win the majority.

Where things stand in the 2024 electionDemocrats have so far flipped 4 seats and are leading in 1 other of the 10 remaining Republican-held competitive seats.

Republicans have flipped 3 and are leading in 2 of the 10 remaining Democratic-held competitive seats.

If that all holds, Democrats would be +5 and Republicans +5 for a 0 net gain for either party.

Doesn't sound like the Dems will net +4, so all GOP for next 2 years.

That would mean, Republicans would keep the House with a 4-seat majority, which is their current margin.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I too would be upset and lash out if I spent the past year being wrong and had to watch the party I unconditionally support eat shit in historic fashion.

OK. So why have you been lashing out for the past 4 years?

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Almost nobody would actually take 100 years ago over today if you really gave them a choice and they fully understood it. The differences in available technology, in convenience, in medical advances ... I'd be dead already if I lived 100 years ago and so would many others.

I feel you're missing the point of the modern GOP. They want to return white men* (and women, to a lesser extent) to the position of strength they held 100-200 years ago, but with all the modern conveniences. And it looks like they'll do it.

As an middle/upper class white man I guess I should be looking forward to it, since my attempts to vote my conscience against my benefits has been so handily rebuffed by those who would be assisted by those benefits.

*mainly white men of means, but a rising tide raises all (white) boats.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I feel you're missing the point of the modern GOP. They want to return white men* (and women, to a lesser extent) to the position of strength they held 100-200 years ago, but with all the modern conveniences. And it looks like they'll do it.

I don't agree. I think there are elements of truth here, but it's far overstated. It's also a conversation that's been had many times on this board, and not one that is beneficial for me to dive into again.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Stupid (but honest) question - if you don't determine citizenship based on birth, how do you determine it?

I would imagine the citizenship status of the parents.

Birthright citizenship is protected by the 14th Amendment, as such:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

I would imagine the primary goal here is to make it so a child born in the United States to two (or even one) undocumented parents is not automatically a US citizen (i.e. "anchor baby").

It's not unheard of, many European countries require one of the parents to be a citizen: Jus soli - Wikipedia

I'd like to see how they'll get enough states to repeal the amendment, although if they did, it would also get rid of that pesky "can't run for federal office if convicted of insurrection" clause in the same Amendment.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

OK. So why have you been lashing out for the past 4 years?

Because it's insane to me that the party would call Trump an existential threat to the country and do jack fucking shit for 4 years. DOJ sat on its ass for years until it was too late. No real life-changing bills passed to improve the lives of people. No effort to build up a strong candidate who could win in 2024. And absolutely no party platform outside of orange man bad.

Trump runs as an anti-establishment candidate and Democrats have yet to understand that. His support isn't all just hillbilly racists, it's people who the system has failed for decades. People who can't buy a home for their family, are paying student loans off into their 40's, and are living paycheck to paycheck at best.

It's why all the January 6th and democracy stuff didn't hit home with voters. Those were attacks on the system. They don't want the system to be protected, they want it broken. They don't want the Clintons and Cheneys, they want fresh faces not associated with the establishment like Dana White, Joe Rogan, and Elon.

Neoliberalism died in 2016. The Democratic Party refuses to accept that.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I feel you're missing the point of the modern GOP. They want to return white men* (and women, to a lesser extent) to the position of strength they held 100-200 years ago, but with all the modern conveniences. And it looks like they'll do it.

Worth noting that the GOP voter base continues to get more diverse with each election while the Democrats continue to get whiter.

Sure there's some racial components behind it but it also brings back a time where you could buy a home on a median salary, attend college without entering a lifetime of debt, and actually have something in the bank for down times.

[Mota]

Well Trump is already showing you who he is, he is going to ban transgenders day 1.

I do agree with banning biological men from competitive women's sports, but this is going to go well beyond this, and the message it sends will almost certainly get Trump cult worshippers to start doing nasty things to them.

[RainMaker]

Just a moment...

[Brian Swartz]

I have zero respect for people (this is why Pelosi's interview aggravated me) who come out and say that knew what to do precisely as soon as it's too late. It's just like the people who talk about how terrible Trump is after they left his administration. Every single person in the 'I warned them and they didn't listen' camp has no credibility. Either stand up and be counted when it matters, or sit down and shut up.

.02

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The GOP absolutely wants to roll the clock back to when white men had all the power. They want to bring back things like no fault divorce, rolling back Roe, attacks on education, etc..

It amazes me any woman or person of color could vote for them.

The horrific attacks are already starting with that text message about plantations and people like Nick Fuentes screaming "your body my choice"

We are in for a dark period

To be fair, you have never left that dark period even when Biden was in office or Obama or even Clinton. And CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, LA Times, NY Times, AP, Reuters, and the good ole NPR will never allow you to leave. Welcome to the Hotel Propaganda.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I have zero respect for people (this is why Pelosi's interview aggravated me) who come out and say that knew what to do precisely as soon as it's too late. It's just like the people who talk about how terrible Trump is after they left his administration. Every single person in the 'I warned them and they didn't listen' camp has no credibility. Either stand up and be counted when it matters, or sit down and shut up.

.02

Stand up, be counted, and be fired. Most people don't want to do that. They're willing to put up with some shit as long as they're on the winning side.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

To be fair, you have never left that dark period even when Biden was in office or Obama or even Clinton. And CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, LA Times, NY Times, AP, Reuters, and the good ole NPR will never allow you to leave. Welcome to the Hotel Propaganda.

it's not propaganda if it is literally the words out of peoples mouths...A guy Trump had lunch with literally said to his large platform your body my choice.

[JPhillips]

Elon endorsed a statement that only Alpha males can really think independently.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

it's not propaganda if it is literally the words out of peoples mouths...A guy Trump had lunch with literally said to his large platform your body my choice.

It’s not propaganda if one speaks on one’s own behalf. He’s one dude with one opinion. Counter it with your own. That’s how it should work.

It is propaganda if the people that work at those mass media outlets and corporations are not allowing their employees their right to freedom of speech. If the companies have a policy where they cannot do that, then they certainly should not be forcing, coercing, or encouraging any of them to speak on the company’s behalf. That’s totalitarianism in practice and that is the true evil
upon our core values of the 1st Ammendment.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

It’s not propaganda if one speaks on one’s own behalf. He’s one dude with one opinion. Counter it with your own. That’s how it should work.

It is propaganda if the people that work at those mass media outlets and corporations are not allowing their employees their right to freedom of speech. If the companies have a policy where they cannot do that, then they certainly should not be forcing, coercing, or encouraging any of them to speak on the company’s behalf. That’s totalitarianism in practice and that is the true evil
upon our core values of the 1st Ammendment.

You realize the guy who you are cheering on has actually filed lawsuits against major media companies and is on record saying he wants to remove the broadcast licenses of media that speaks poorly of him.

So GTFO with your 1A arguments.

[Ksyrup]

I love that business leaders are signalling that they'll pass tariffs onto American consumers and that abruptly altering the supply of workers is going to lead to higher prices for homes, at restaurants, etc.

"We" voted against these things and we're going to get more of it anyway. But at least it wasn't a surprise!

[JPhillips]

Read a CPA talking about tariffs and his argument for them was that sure prices will go up, but wages will also rise.

You know, inflation.

[Lathum]

I have probably mentioned this before but my wife runs 2 companies for Warren Buffett controlled Marmon group.

Wednesday morning an email went out basically detailing how tariffs are going to effect businesses and consumers and it wasn't great.

Amazing anyone would think this was viable.