POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I mean it would have to look like literal roadblocked checkpoints where you either show your proof of citizenship or you go to detention until you are able to prove it, right? How else is it going to work?

And maybe create a special police force that goes into schools, businesses, and homes and asks people for their papers.

I’m trying to think of where we have seen that before.

[albionmoonlight]

It's the Shirley Principle.

"Surely, they are just going to go after the bad people."
"Surely, they won't use this new power to harass or intimidate"
"Surely they will give people the chance to correct an honest paperwork mistake"

No one trusts the government more than conservatives in 2024.

[Lathum]

I don’t think it’s as much they trust the government as the government is going after the people they hate. Let’s be honest, do you really think white conservatives actually care if the brown people who don’t speak English are citizens or not?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I mean it would have to look like literal roadblocked checkpoints where you either show your proof of citizenship or you go to detention until you are able to prove it, right? How else is it going to work?

Well, they'll save some money by combining it with stopping women of childbearing age to check for pregnancy or birth control since that's usually on the next line of bills to pass.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Do you carry proof of citizenship with you at all times? Do you expect mass deportation to have hearings for proof of citizenship?

If you are truly against fixing the mass illegal entries issue based on this, you aren’t grounded in any sense of reality. You can’t deport an American to a foreign country. The foreign country has to accept them and unless you are suggesting that other countries are not aware that they need to check for citizenship proof before accepting these “imaginary American deportees”, you must know this isn’t a sensical concern.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

If you are truly against fixing the mass illegal entries issue based on this, you aren’t grounded in any sense of reality. You can’t deport an American to a foreign country. The foreign country has to accept them and unless you are suggesting that other countries are not aware that they need to check for citizenship proof before accepting these “imaginary American deportees”, you must know this isn’t a sensical concern.

So what you’re saying is you are totally ok with people unconstitutionally being asked for papers, illegally detained, then possibly being deported to a country they are not from who’s job it will then be to figure it out?

How white of you.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

And there's no reason to stop it. There are popular (yet unfeasible) ideas out there to be embraced harmlessly. If he senses trouble, why stop at this level? Why not a promise to cut income taxes in half for everyone, on day one (the dictator phase, heh)? Just mumble some stuff about a booming economy paying for it, or how tariffs will, or that we will pay for it with a trillion dollar coin, or whatever... nobody holds him to any details so why stop pledging the moon and stars?

Fish in a barrel. I'll be back in two days when the next absurdity pops up.

BREAKING: Trump announces that as president, he will immediately implement a temporary 10% cap on credit card interest rates

"We can't let them make it 25% and 30%."

Credit card interest rates are at a historic high under the Kamala-Biden regime. His simple plan will alleviate… pic.twitter.com/yENoVsqv1S

— George (@BehizyTweets) September 19, 2024

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Dutch

If you are truly against fixing the mass illegal entries issue based on this, you aren’t grounded in any sense of reality.

Personally, I wouldn't call it "reality" but I'd call it different priority. On a scale of 1-10, I suspect you and I are in the 8-10 range and many here are on the 0-2 range (e.g. illegal immigrants are not a problem).

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dutch

If you are truly against fixing the mass illegal entries issue based on this, you aren’t grounded in any sense of reality. You can’t deport an American to a foreign country. The foreign country has to accept them and unless you are suggesting that other countries are not aware that they need to check for citizenship proof before accepting these “imaginary American deportees”, you must know this isn’t a sensical concern.

You can tighten border security without mass deportations.

So you really think this is going to move slowly enough that people will be verified both here and in the country of origin? How does that square with Trump's claim that mass deportations and camps will start on day one?

How will both the US and the second country check for citizenship? There isn't a list somewhere that can be quickly checked. It requires documentation. What happens when there isn't any documentation? How do we know where to deport to? What happens if the second country says no as will certainly happen in some places like Venezuela?

What's probable cause for checking citizenship? Will it take a second violation or will they demand proof on sight? What happens to people who can't prove citizenship but claim they are? Will there be hearings? What happens to people waiting for hearings?

Is all of this planned for and they are just keeping it a secret or are they just going to start rounding up and hope for the best?

It's funny that you say I'm not serious when all you have is trust me it will all work out okay.

[Vegas Vic]

Uncle Ronnie didn't believe in deportation.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Personally, I wouldn't call it "reality" but I'd call it different priority. On a scale of 1-10, I suspect you and I are in the 8-10 range and many here are on the 0-2 range (e.g. illegal immigrants are not a problem).

At the risk of speaking for others, I think most realize immigration is an issue.

The problem is the so called solutions from the GOP just aren't realistic and pander to low information and low IQ voters who lack the ability to critically think.

A wall wouldn't solve anything and mass deportations on the scale Trump is proposing just isn't feasible without massive costs and violating the rights of Americans. Unless you are in the "have to break a few eggs to make an omelet camp" when it comes to other peoples liberties you can't see this as a realistic solution.

Dutch dodged the question, maybe you'll answer. Logistically what does Trumps proposed mass deportations look like?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You can tighten border security without mass deportations.

So you really think this is going to move slowly enough that people will be verified both here and in the country of origin? How does that square with Trump's claim that mass deportations and camps will start on day one?

How will both the US and the second country check for citizenship? There isn't a list somewhere that can be quickly checked. It requires documentation. What happens when there isn't any documentation? How do we know where to deport to? What happens if the second country says no as will certainly happen in some places like Venezuela?

What's probable cause for checking citizenship? Will it take a second violation or will they demand proof on sight? What happens to people who can't prove citizenship but claim they are? Will there be hearings? What happens to people waiting for hearings?

Is all of this planned for and they are just keeping it a secret or are they just going to start rounding up and hope for the best?

It's funny that you say I'm not serious when all you have is trust me it will all work out okay.

Conservatives won't care as long as they send all the cat eating Haitians to Venezuela and not Haitia

[JPhillips]

I should also add, what happens to the people here on amnesty claims? They aren't citizens but are here legally.

And for that matter, what about people traveling? What happens to people who can't prove their visa status on demand? Do we just trust their word or are they detained?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You can tighten border security without mass deportations.

So you really think this is going to move slowly enough that people will be verified both here and in the country of origin? How does that square with Trump's claim that mass deportations and camps will start on day one?

How will both the US and the second country check for citizenship? There isn't a list somewhere that can be quickly checked. It requires documentation. What happens when there isn't any documentation? How do we know where to deport to? What happens if the second country says no as will certainly happen in some places like Venezuela?

What's probable cause for checking citizenship? Will it take a second violation or will they demand proof on sight? What happens to people who can't prove citizenship but claim they are? Will there be hearings? What happens to people waiting for hearings?

Is all of this planned for and they are just keeping it a secret or are they just going to start rounding up and hope for the best?

It's funny that you say I'm not serious when all you have is trust me it will all work out okay.

I'm skeptical that checking people's citizenship could get past even this SCOTUS.

Cost, what to do with people that don't cooperate, what to do with people from countries that womt accept them back, what are you doing with US citizens that wont cooperate, are you doing with people that don't have proof but claim to be citizens, where are we putting people pending deportation at each step on the way out of the country, and back to cost.

You can't claim to care about the budget and deficit and support this.

[JPhillips]

You can just look at the math and understand this is an impossible task. Deporting 10000000 people means three thousand a day for ten years. Obviously that's ridiculous, but the GOP is fixated on "plans" that won't possibly work.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

At the risk of speaking for others, I think most realize immigration is an issue.

The problem is the so called solutions from the GOP just aren't realistic and pander to low information and low IQ voters who lack the ability to critically think.

A wall wouldn't solve anything and mass deportations on the scale Trump is proposing just isn't feasible without massive costs and violating the rights of Americans. Unless you are in the "have to break a few eggs to make an omelet camp" when it comes to other peoples liberties you can't see this as a realistic solution.

Dutch dodged the question, maybe you'll answer. Logistically what does Trumps proposed mass deportations look like?

I'll be glad to answer this question on how I would do it if I was President and will do so later today (have an errand to run). Note that I'll not be answering as Trump. I'll reframe the question as "how would President Edward deal with illegal immigration".

I'll assume we'll have a back-and-forth, both doing Q&A without any attacks on person (vs position). Let me know if this is acceptable (or not) to you.

Because I plan to ask you for your solutions, my question to you when we continue this discussion is:

On a scale of 1-10 where Dutch and I are probably 8-10, and 0-2 is not a big problem, where you are on illegal immigration?

In anticipation of someone complaining about me, let me know if you want to move this over to the Immigration thread. If you want to keep it here, no problem.

Oh, in another anticipation of "can't do it, it's impossible", I'll just refer to the Immigration thread where I said

You keep on coming up with "can't do this because of x, y, z". With that approach, we would never have gone to the moon, or created social security, or passed watered-down Obamacare, or passed the infrastructure bill (because the GOP will never negotiate with Joe), Elon Musk would never have created/advanced Tesla, Jobs would never have come up with iPhone (with the Newton fiasco) etc. ad nauseum.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'll be glad to answer this question on how I would do it if I was President and will do so later today (have an errand to run). Note that I'll not be answering as Trump. I'll reframe the question as "how would President Edward deal with illegal immigration".

I'll assume we'll have a back-and-forth, both doing Q&A without any attacks on person (vs position). Let me know if this is acceptable (or not) to you.

Because I plan to ask you for your solutions, my question to you when we continue this discussion is:

On a scale of 1-10 where Dutch and I are probably 8-10, and 0-2 is not a big problem, where you are on illegal immigration?

In anticipation of someone complaining about me, let me know if you want to move this over to the Immigration thread. If you want to keep it here, no problem.

I will be civil and I think a discussion here is fitting given the context of the conversation.

I would put the problem at a 5. I think we need a way to process asylum claims much faster. I also think we need these people here to prop up our economy so it is necessary. I think the GOP uses this as a boogeyman (caravans, emptying insane asylums, rapists and thugs, etc....) to frighten people when almost all of these people are here to escape horrific conditions and make a better life for them and their families.

[Thomkal]

So it looks like some of the attendees at a Trump rally in Arizona are having problems with their eyes:


Trump rally goers suffer mysterious eye injuries: 'I can't see anything' - Raw Story

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So it looks like some of the attendees at a Trump rally in Arizona are having problems with their eyes:


Trump rally goers suffer mysterious eye injuries: 'I can't see anything' - Raw Story

thats the risk you take sitting behind Trump

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Lathum

People who support this have zero expectations of what it will look like because they haven't thought past "brown people bad."

They're not concerned, because white people will never get carded.

[thesloppy]

Making America great again, via the citizenship checkpoints, school metal detectors, armed teachers and abortion bounties, just like we all remember from our youth.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Oh, in another anticipation of "can't do it, it's impossible", I'll just refer to the Immigration thread where I said

So being able to deport millions from our country is a sign of American greatness on par with the moon landing?

I honestly don't even understand the point being made there.

Are you OK with US citizens being detained because they don't have their citizenship papers on them?