POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[JPhillips]

We already know that Russian influence and money is all over right leaning PACs. The NRA in particular is almost a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kremlin.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

We already know that Russian influence and money is all over right leaning PACs. The NRA in particular is almost a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kremlin.

When the grift starts to run dry it's the easiest place to run to in order to get more money.

[Lathum]

I don't know how it gets fixed since most of these people are happy to be lied to since it fits their narrative and they would never admit they were duped.

[Atocep]

It should also be noted that Dmitri Simes becomes the latest from the Trump 2016 campaign to be indicted in all this.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Seeing reports, mind you on Twitter, that the Russian influence indictments include 600 Americans including elected officials. This is going to be nuts.

Yes, but Putin endorsed Kamala, so that offsets it. /s

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

We already know that Russian influence and money is all over right leaning PACs. The NRA in particular is almost a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kremlin.

A lot of countries do what Russia is doing. What makes them different?

Not saying they shouldn't go after illegal activity, but it seems like selective prosecution.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Seeing reports, mind you on Twitter, that the Russian influence indictments include 600 Americans including elected officials. This is going to be nuts.

hard to say until we see who they are and what they are charged with

[RainMaker]

We already know it involved Tenet Media which was Tim Pool, Dave Rubin, Lauren Southern, and Benny Johnson. They're all claiming to not have known a thing but if you are getting paid $100k a video from some mysterious source for under a million YouTube views, you should know something fishy is going on.

It'll be interesting to see how many other right-wing influencers are involved. I have a feeling it's going to be a lot of big names (Tucker probably) because there is no way that field is as profitable as it seems.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

A lot of countries do what Russia is doing. What makes them different?

Not saying they shouldn't go after illegal activity, but it seems like selective prosecution.

It is a matter of how. If they do it through registered lobbyist that have to report where money comes from and how the money is used, then it really isn't the same thing. This is hidden money basically being laundered into the country to unreported accomplices. There is pretty big difference between say a Latin American lobby group and this.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We already know it involved Tenet Media which was Tim Pool, Dave Rubin, Lauren Southern, and Benny Johnson. They're all claiming to not have known a thing but if you are getting paid $100k a video from some mysterious source for under a million YouTube views, you should know something fishy is going on.

It'll be interesting to see how many other right-wing influencers are involved. I have a feeling it's going to be a lot of big names (Tucker probably) because there is no way that field is as profitable as it seems.

And especially Tim Poole is going to have a hard time denying he couldn't tell who was paying him. "Ukraine is our greatest enemy..."

And I ask: does THIS sound like somebody being paid by Russia to you?! pic.twitter.com/ed3futFNsh

— Brett Meiselas 🇺🇸🦅 (@BMeiselas) September 4, 2024

[Lathum]

Poole supposedly has already started cooperating with the feds.

[GrantDawg]

Welcome to bizzaro land....

Liz Cheney is voting for Colin Allred in the U.S. Senate race and Dick Cheney is voting for Kamala Harris, she tells TribFest.

— Matthew Choi (@matthewichoi) September 6, 2024

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

It is a matter of how. If they do it through registered lobbyist that have to report where money comes from and how the money is used, then it really isn't the same thing. This is hidden money basically being laundered into the country to unreported accomplices. There is pretty big difference between say a Latin American lobby group and this.

They're not lobbying though to politicians. They're funding entertainers to make content they thing will be useful.

Just not sure how that is different from what Lachlan Murdoch does. Or when the Saudis do some image laundering through celebrities and athletes.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Poole supposedly has already started cooperating with the feds.

He goes from being a high school drop out to making $100k/wk posting videos.

I chose the wrong career path.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Seeing reports, mind you on Twitter, that the Russian influence indictments include 600 Americans including elected officials. This is going to be nuts.

This is what i think you saw Lathum?


DOJ: Russia Aimed Propaganda at Gamers, Minorities to Swing 2024 Election | WIRED

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They're not lobbying though to politicians. They're funding entertainers to make content they thing will be useful.

Just not sure how that is different from what Lachlan Murdoch does. Or when the Saudis do some image laundering through celebrities and athletes.

I would assume that you are correct that almost all developed nations are engaging in some sort of influence/interference with American elections. I would also assume that Russia is engaging in ALL of the sorts of influence/interference with American elections, which is what makes them unique...or at least prioritized.


I also wouldn't be surprised if the scale of their operations means that some of them are just worse at it, easier to catch/trace, and a better return on invested time and effort..

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I would assume that you are correct that almost all developed nations are engaging in some sort of influence/interference with American elections. I would also assume that Russia is engaging in ALL of the sorts of influence/interference with American elections, which is what makes them unique...or at least prioritized.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the scale of their operations means that some of them are just worse at it, easier to catch/trace, and a better return on invested time and effort..

There is nothing unique about what they are doing. Other countries do this openly and we are fine with it. In fact, looking through the indictment, this is a pretty small scale. $10 million to some C-list influencers is a pittance. Heck, Israel spent $14 million in just a single Dem primary.

Like I said, seems like very selective prosecution. When the Saudis pay Phil to say how great the country is, it's legal I guess.

[GrantDawg]

Do we have sanctions on Saudi Arabia that I don't know about? Because that is why this was illegal. Part of the sanctions we put In place after the invasion of Ukraine made it illegal for Russia Today to do business in the US, and they were the ones convertly paying these people. Pretty clear difference.

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[Swaggs]

I’d bet on Mike Lee and Rand Paul, but people that work for them will likely be the ones to take the fall.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There is nothing unique about what they are doing. Other countries do this openly and we are fine with it. In fact, looking through the indictment, this is a pretty small scale. $10 million to some C-list influencers is a pittance. Heck, Israel spent $14 million in just a single Dem primary.

Like I said, seems like very selective prosecution. When the Saudis pay Phil to say how great the country is, it's legal I guess.

So what's your point? Foreign policy shouldn't be selective? If you're not prosecuting literally the entire developed world then you shouldn't prosecute anybody?

Edit: Grantdawg makes a good point about the sanctions against Russia.

[RainMaker]

The money laundering charges would work with the sanctions (lol at America caring about Russian money laundering). But the crux of the charges is violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Something we very selectively enforce. Again, why aren't those agents for other countries charged?

It's just a giant PR stunt anyway. The 2 charged will never be on American soil and the people who took in millions will never be charged for political reasons. They totally didn't know that it was sketchy to be paid $100k for a video.

My point is the same as it always is on legal matters. The law should apply equally to everyone.

[GrantDawg]

But the sanctions are what made the actions illegal. If you can find the sanctions that SA was breaking and they are not charging them with, then it is selective prosecution. But Russia is not allowed to do this type of business in the United States, hence the indictments. It is not illegal for foreign countries to hire people to promote them.

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[RainMaker]

FARA has nothing to do with sanctions. You can be charged with a violation for advocating for Canada and not registering.

The Saudi's Private Investment Fund violates FARA every single day.

[GrantDawg]

As for the Foreign Agents Registration Act, the DOJ charges people with that all the time, incuding people acting for SA https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/forme...-foreign-agent

Here is a list of recent cases, including the one versus Sen. Mendez acting for Egypt. https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/recent-cases

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

FARA has nothing to do with sanctions. You can be charged with a violation for advocating for Canada and not registering.

The Saudi's Private Investment Fund violates FARA every single day.

That's a bold assertion that may be your opinion, but the DOJ disagrees with you and I would guess they have a better grasp of the law than you. If your assertion were true, I'm guessing all those convictions using FARA would have been thrown out by the appellate courts on the basis of selective prosecution, but it seems those courts don't agree with you either.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That's a bold assertion that may be your opinion, but the DOJ disagrees with you and I would guess they have a better grasp of the law than you. If your assertion were true, I'm guessing all those convictions using FARA would have been thrown out by the appellate courts on the basis of selective prosecution, but it seems those courts don't agree with you either.

Those people broke the law and were prosecuted. Nothing wrong with that. The issue is why doesn't the government treat LIV Golf or any of the dozens of advocacy groups for Middle East countries the same way? We all know they are FARA violations but ignore it.

And why aren't any of the people in America charged like the Twitter employees were over the Russian propaganda case? That's about as open and shut a case as you can find.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Those people broke the law and were prosecuted. Nothing wrong with that. The issue is why doesn't the government treat LIV Golf or any of the dozens of advocacy groups for Middle East countries the same way? We all know they are FARA violations but ignore it.

And why aren't any of the people in America charged like the Twitter employees were over the Russian propaganda case? That's about as open and shut a case as you can find.

They do treat LIV the same way. LIV has FARA registered agents, and the DOJ also has them registered under another program that allows foreign companies to lobby for employees and business interest in the US. The DOJ is constantly threatening and working with LIV, it is not like they ignore them. You may not like how they treat them, but that is a far cry from allowing them to commit crimes.

[RainMaker]

LIV Golf is not registered. They have vehemently opposed it and it's mostly been veiled threats by Congress. A few people who worked for them did register when threats came down, but they were not charged for their illegal activity.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

LIV Golf is not registered. They have vehemently opposed it and it's mostly been veiled threats by Congress. A few people who worked for them did register when threats came down, but they were not charged for their illegal activity.

ok, correction they have been registered. They then worked under another registration for foreign companies. The Justice Department constantly is investigating them, and if they break or broke the law they will be charged. What LIV is doing and has done is far from being ignored.

[albionmoonlight]

So Trump/Musk say that there are trillions in government spending that they can eliminate without reducing services.

That's amazing!

So . . . why are they keeping it a secret? This would be one of the largest government restructurings of all time. Why not let us know what it is before we vote? That would let us all make an informed choice.

Also, it would destroy Harris, right? Literal trillions of dollars in waste that Trump gets to point to and that she'll have to defend.

And, on the off chance that Trump is confused and Musk is an idiot, it'd be nice to know that before the election, too.

[GrantDawg]

Mark Cuban has always had sort of a Democrat lean, though he has criticized the administration many times on many things. At some point he must have been engaged by the Harris campaign, because he has been really shilling for her more than I have ever seen him campaign for a candidate.

[Danny]

Musk has made it so I will never buy a Tesla product in my life. Im sure theres lots of owners of companies i buy from who donate or support trump in certain ways but the way he has tied himself and bowed to him in the end despite him claiming otherwise. Richest man in the world but just a cuck for Trump in the end.

[Ksyrup]

Publix is making a push into KY with close to a dozen stores opening in the next couple of years. Having lived for over a decade in FL, I'm well aware of Publix; even more so because I went to college at Florida Southern which was basically bankrolled by Publix founders.

I don't know her name, but the main heiress to the Publix fortune is a Trumper who bankrolled a lot of the Stop the Steal lawsuits and other shenanigans in 2020. Putting aside the fact that they are a more expensive Kroger with a much better deli, I will be avoiding Publix when the first one opens in Lexington by year end.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Publix is making a push into KY with close to a dozen stores opening in the next couple of years. Having lived for over a decade in FL, I'm well aware of Publix; even more so because I went to college at Florida Southern which was basically bankrolled by Publix founders.

I don't know her name, but the main heiress to the Publix fortune is a Trumper who bankrolled a lot of the Stop the Steal lawsuits and other shenanigans in 2020. Putting aside the fact that they are a more expensive Kroger with a much better deli, I will be avoiding Publix when the first one opens in Lexington by year end.

Publix is my go to. The prices are a little higher, but it has better slection, the stores are cleaner than Kroger, and it is the easiest store for me to get into and out of. I don't like the owners politics, but I also don't like the politics of most of the people that pay me.

[Ksyrup]

I get it. But I have a choice, so that's an easy differentiator. In our suburb of Lexington, we have Kroger. We go to Meijer in Lexington to supplement Kroger. Publix would be a choice. Now, if Publix was in our town, we'd likely be going there for the quick trips 2-3 times a week. But it's not, so we can choose to skip it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

ok, correction they have been registered. They then worked under another registration for foreign companies. The Justice Department constantly is investigating them, and if they break or broke the law they will be charged. What LIV is doing and has done is far from being ignored.

Yeah, I'm sure they'll get around to charging them one day. Right after they wrap up that 9/11 investigation and the Saudis involvement. And the manipulation of oil prices to influence American elections.

Face it, the government values the Saudis more than American citizens.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

So Trump/Musk say that there are trillions in government spending that they can eliminate without reducing services.

That's amazing!

So . . . why are they keeping it a secret? This would be one of the largest government restructurings of all time. Why not let us know what it is before we vote? That would let us all make an informed choice.

Also, it would destroy Harris, right? Literal trillions of dollars in waste that Trump gets to point to and that she'll have to defend.

And, on the off chance that Trump is confused and Musk is an idiot, it'd be nice to know that before the election, too.

Incredibly funny to put a guy who has made his fortunes off government handouts in charge of finding areas to cut in government.

[Ksyrup]

It makes perfect sense since they'll probably agree on the types of people who shouldn't get government handouts/assistance.

[JPhillips]

Everything discretionary, non-defense is less than 1 trillion, so the only way you get to trillions in cuts is through SS and Medicare, which Trump has vowed not to cut.

[Passacaglia]

Maybe the pro-abortion Republicans also want to cut defense.

[Brian Swartz]

Not that he didn't probably just make it up like so many other things, but often how you get to such numbers is to say 'well, we'll cut 50 billion here, and take credit for that 50 billion every year for the next decade or two since we won't spend it those years either'. That's how a lot of cost and budget projections work in DC, and have for a very long time.

[dubb93]

My step father who retired within the last year and started just watching Fox News full time showed up to my son’s soccer game today with a Trump shirt and hat. I asked him if he remembered that time Jesus ordered the borders locked down. It was good times.

[RainMaker]

The easiest way would be to actually tax rich people although I get that's a non starter.