POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

People can pretty much post anything on the internet and people will run with it. Already seen this reposted a couple of times on FB SMH. I would 100% think/hope it has no shred of truth to it, but if there is the Harris campaign will deserve what they get for their stellar job of vetting.

Big October surprise rocks Kamala campaign, Tim Walz accused of 'inappropriate' relations with a minor - Hindustan Times

I clicked on one of the two twitter "sources" in that article and it's a satire shitposter.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

We're going to end up with some sort of crypto bailout and it's going to piss me off so much.

I'd bet I'd be even more pissed than you.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd bet I'd be even more pissed than you.

It has to be a mess if you and I agree.

[GrantDawg]

Today, it was confirmed that Kamala Harris is doing to do a sit down with Brett Baier on Fox, and now it is also confirmed she is working on going on the Joe Rogan podcast.

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[JPhillips]

If Trump wins I'm convinced he's going to screw over RFK Jr. I don't think he wants RFK Jr. taking camera time and I don't think he gives a damn about all of the anti-corporate stuff.

[JPhillips]

Trump's ton hall tonight was apparently one of the odder things to happen at a campaign event.

It was in a poorly ventilated space and people were overheated. At least two passed out and received medical treatment. Trump said that he wasn't going to take more questions and they'll all just listen to music instead. Music played, with Trump bobbing slightly, for 20 minutes or so and then Trump said the townhall was over.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It has to be a mess if you and I agree.

I agree with both of you also. Strongly.

This is scary.

[flere-imsaho]

Along with Brian, Jon, & JPhillips, I will also be pissed if there's a crypto bailout.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I will respectfully disagree with you here. I do believe there are "degrees" of blame (aka degrees of separation)

So you would say then that a proverbial mob boss is less guilty than the hit man they hire/order to eliminate someone?

[Lathum]

Has to be a good sign for Harris

Early Voting: Large turnout on first day of early voting in Georgia – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump's ton hall tonight was apparently one of the odder things to happen at a campaign event.

It was in a poorly ventilated space and people were overheated. At least two passed out and received medical treatment. Trump said that he wasn't going to take more questions and they'll all just listen to music instead. Music played, with Trump bobbing slightly, for 20 minutes or so and then Trump said the townhall was over.

35 to 38 minutes from what I've seen. They played all of November Rain so you know it had to be a long time.

[GrantDawg]

My wife and son both voted today. In and out no problem. I should be able to this week myself.

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[cartman]

so at the Economic Forum of Chicago, the stable genius told the roomful of economists that they didn't understand tariffs.

"Critics say your tariffs will end up being like a national sales tax because America at the moment has $3 trillion worth of imports, you're going to add tariffs to every single one of them that is going to push up the cost for all those people who want to buy foreign goods.

"It is just simple mathematics, President Trump."

"It's not," replied Trump. "It is, but not the way you figured. I was always very good at mathematics."

[cuervo72]

test

Ok, things refuse to embed. Anyway, this is good too:

https://x.com/Acyn/status/1846242042785288257

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

My wife and son both voted today. In and out no problem. I should be able to this week myself.

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Was going to vote but heard it was busy. Definitely going to vote early, so sometime this week or early next.

When I drove back from swimming, the 2 lights on either side of the GA-400 exit had Kamala supporters on one side and Trump supporters the other. Just read Trump is holding a townhall in Forsyth county.

[NobodyHere]

Local election officials in Georgia must certify results, judge rules

I only bring this up because the judge invoked Lord of the Rings in his ruling.

Originally Posted by Article

"To users of common parlance, 'shall' connotes instruction or command: You shall not pass!" he wrote, quoting Lord of the Rings' Gandalf's famous battle cry. "And, generally, even lawyers, legislators, and judges, construe “shall” as “a word of command."

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

My wife and son both voted today. In and out no problem. I should be able to this week myself.

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I sent my absentee ballot in today too

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

So you would say then that a proverbial mob boss is less guilty than the hit man they hire/order to eliminate someone?

No, not less guilty. My full quote is below

Originally Posted by Edward64

I will respectfully disagree with you here. I do believe there are "degrees" of blame (aka degrees of separation)

As a general example ...

Person A can be blamed more if he organizes/implements bad thing X. Person B can be blamed less if X-3. Person C can be blamed much less if he is X-10.

Therefore, the mob boss "organized" and the "hit man" implemented. So, in my mind, pretty much the same.

[Thomkal]

But Stephen Miller said it was the greatest ever interview any political candidate has ever given.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

But Stephen Miller said it was the greatest ever interview any political candidate has ever given.

If I ever find a Genie, one wish will be put me in a room with Miller so I can punch him in the face. Hell, why not use all three wishes so I could give him a jab, cross, hook combo.

[JPhillips]

GOP friendly pollsters getting lazy.

PENNSYLVANIA @AmericanPulseUS Poll:

Trump 51% (+1)
Harris 50%

[Ksyrup]

9% undecided. That gets you to the proverbial 110%. Duh.

[Lathum]

It is all the illegals voting

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Therefore, the mob boss "organized" and the "hit man" implemented. So, in my mind, pretty much the same.

Ok. Next question then; how is that different from buying something made under horrifying conditions in some other country? Isn't that 'organizing'? If people weren't buying it (aka giving the order), then you don't have the situation. They're rendering a service to us, same as the mines in my example, the sweatshops making t-shirts/sneakers/whatever you want to pick on are; hitman is rendering a service to the mob boss.

[GrantDawg]

Trump is planning to work a fry station at McDonalds on Sunday in Pennsylvania.

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[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

If I ever find a Genie, one wish will be put me in a room with Miller so I can punch him in the face. Hell, why not use all three wishes so I could give him a jab, cross, hook combo.

you can use my wishes so you can punch him some more. Almost more than I want to see Trump go to jail for what he has done, Miller would be a close second.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Trump is planning to work a fry station at McDonalds on Sunday in Pennsylvania.

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he's just doing it for the free fries...

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

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Ok, things refuse to embed. Anyway, this is good too:

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This interview is an example of why he's being hidden from major networks and mainstream media. He can't articulate any position and can't stay on topic. Then when pushed to answer the question he gets angry and lashes out.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Ok. Next question then; how is that different from buying something made under horrifying conditions in some other country? Isn't that 'organizing'? If people weren't buying it (aka giving the order), then you don't have the situation.

No, a regular consumer buying an iPhone (which cobalt is used in) is definitely not "organizing" (or at least not in the definition I would use). Organizing to me indicates there is someone in authority coordinating/paying to get X done.

The regular consumer is several degrees of separation away from that and certainly after Apple (which has more culpability/blame than the consumer). If the cobalt miner only sells to Apple, then I would consider Apple the organizer. But I'm pretty sure the cobalt miner sells to a bunch of different other companies/entities so I'd say cobalt miner is X and Apple is X-1 or X-2.

They're rendering a service to us, same as the mines in my example, the sweatshops making t-shirts/sneakers/whatever you want to pick on are; hitman is rendering a service to the mob boss.

Using the example of mob boss ... does Meadow/Anothony bear the same/equal responsibility of all the killings that Tony did/organized? They benefited, they may not have known all the specifics but they knew Tony did bad things. Would a court of law view them as equally culpable? I doubt it, too many degrees of separation. Isn't this the reason why there are different levels of murder/killing in the court of law?

[Edward64]

I was wondering why Kamala didn't do more with "weird". The answer below ...

[url="https://www.natesilver.net/p/kamala-harris-needs-weird-voters"[/url]

That may be because the “weird” message didn’t actually poll very well, according to Pod Save America’s Dan Pfeiffer:

Does calling MAGA Republicans weird actually move voters?

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, we haven’t (yet) found the secret sauce. According to private research done by a top Democratic outfit, calling MAGA Republicans “weird” has minimal impact. The study showed voters various clips of Democrats using the message and then measured how the messages impacted their vote choice. The study found not [sic] significant impact one way or the other.

The lack of a backlash is notable because using a term like “weird” would seem condescending to some voters — something akin to Hillary Clinton’s deplorables comment in 2016. There is no downside to the message, but it doesn’t move the race in our direction. In other words, calling Donald Trump and JD Vance “weird” may be more cathartic than constructive.

[Ksyrup]

Serious question - at this point, is there any single label (or thing, really) that is going to have better than a minimal impact?This is about scrounging in the seat cushions for loose change. Any positive impact is good, especially if there's no "major" impact item to replace a series of minimal impact things they could keep using (maybe not hammer/over-use, but continue messaging with now and then).

[GrantDawg]

At this point, it is all about get out to the vote/suppress the vote at this point. As much attention as "undecided voters" gets, this election will be about, just like all elections are, turn out. So if there is a "motto" or a tag-line that will work right now, it would be whatever you need to motivate your voters to show up.

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[Vegas Vic]

I'm looking forward to Kamala's interview with Bret Baier tonight. Say what you will about Fox News, but Bret Baier asks tough questions regardless of who he's interviewing. This isn't the Hannity/Watters/Ingraham entertainment sector of Fox News. Baier's interview style reminds me of the late great Tim Russert.

[Thomkal]

I hope she can find a way to bring up the disinformation about election results and other areas that this channel continues to promote-mention the settled lawsuit and ongoing suits for lying about the last election.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I hope she can find a way to bring up the disinformation about election results and other areas that this channel continues to promote-mention the settled lawsuit and ongoing suits for lying about the last election.

First and foremost, she needs to articulate the Biden administration's border policy over the past term, instead of letting that be defined by Trump's disinformation. There is no such thing as a "border Czar", that was invented by Trump. She was sent on a fact finding mission by Biden to try and determine the root causes of migration and then work in a bipartisan way to find a solution, which they did until Trump ordered the Republicans to kill the bill, because actually getting something done on the border would hurt his chances in the election.

[Front Office Midget]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Serious question - at this point, is there any single label (or thing, really) that is going to have better than a minimal impact?This is about scrounging in the seat cushions for loose change. Any positive impact is good, especially if there's no "major" impact item to replace a series of minimal impact things they could keep using (maybe not hammer/over-use, but continue messaging with now and then).

A firm stance against Israel's war crimes and the discontinued support of Israel could help them win a lot of votes from the left... until they come up with a new reason to not support them, I guess.

I can't imagine the GOP will ever have difficulty turning out its voters. Climate change will bring more and more refugees from equatorial countries, which will lead to more and more yelling about "illegals". It's already a broken record at this point, but it's only going to get worse.

Democrats can really only win from the bottom, I think, when they can point out how bad Republican rule is. When they are in power, don't care to vote for them.

So I'm guessing this "Illegal Immigration" and "Threat to Democracy" theme this election isn't going away.

Literally the best case scenario. The worst is obviously full on fascism, civil war, fragmentation, etc.


If folks are tuned in to the bots and social media strategy from the GOP, it is interesting to note that in 2020, their strategy was "Democrats are burning down the cities! They are radical communists!" and this time it is "Cities are in decay, businesses are closing, look how dirty the streets are!". It is painful, and I am constantly seeing my neighborhood referred to as "horrible" online, among other neighborhoods that I enjoy spending time in. These happen to be the neighborhoods with improved public transits and large minority populations.

The ideological battles happening are out of step with reality. Climate change is happening. The equators are becoming uninhabitable. Most of the world's population lives in poverty. Many of them near the equator. American and European populations are in decline. Put 2 and 2 together. Nobody with any kind of voice in politics is willing to say that the future of USA and Europe are as predominantly nonwhite nations, that immigration is good, and that we need to be building and preparing.

Instead it's the same old "keep them out" nonsense that has been going on for decades. Why can't an adult in the room actually explain the obvious? Is it because white Americans and Europeans are too racist to accept the fact that the days of white imperialist domination are over?


Amazingly, these people talk about how the "founding fathers" wanted us to have the "right to bare arms", but don't talk about how this country had no restrictions on immigration until after the Civil War, and its origins were in complete xenophobia.


Republicans live in a complete alternative reality. They ignore anything taught in a university outside of Econ 101/102. That's not going away. So where does that leave us?

But people will openly vote for fascists if they think it will lower the price of eggs. The Democrats want to lose, so they can fundraise more next time, so they don't bother explaining to people that inflation is a part of life.

We're on a rough track. So no... I don't think a catchy "Get out the vote" catchphrase can save us.


On the bright side, I do think there is a bit of a movement among younger evangelical Christians to take a slightly more liberal view of social issues, as more and more biblical scholarship comes out that tells them that it's ok to believe in God but take a liberal interpretation of scripture that allows them to believe that God wants to smite "gays" or "vanquish iniquity" or "destroy the enemies" or whatever insanity they talk about as if it's real life.

Still, it's moving too slow.

[Lathum]

The GOP solution to population decline is forcing 12 year old rape and incest victims to have their attackers baby.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The GOP solution to population decline is forcing 12 year old rape and incest victims to have their attackers baby.

And to keep them uneducated so they go directly to the farms or factories.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Front Office Midget

Instead it's the same old "keep them out" nonsense that has been going on for decades. Why can't an adult in the room actually explain the obvious? Is it because white Americans and Europeans are too racist to accept the fact that the days of white imperialist domination are over?

I fully agree with you. I think there's a much bigger reason than racism though. Humans suck at planning for the long-term future. Democratic elections always shift dramatically based on current events, and things that are even a few years out have an impact very close to zero. Asking people to choose intelligently based on things that are measure in decades is asking for a level of citizenship several orders of magnitude better than what they are willing to give.

If we want a government that does that, we have to give up democracy. Simple as.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I fully agree with you. I think there's a much bigger reason than racism though. Humans suck at planning for the long-term future. Democratic elections always shift dramatically based on current events, and things that are even a few years out have an impact very close to zero. Asking people to choose intelligently based on things that are measure in decades is asking for a level of citizenship several orders of magnitude better than what they are willing to give.

If we want a government that does that, we have to give up democracy. Simple as.

I don't think we suck at long term planning. If the boomers have shown us anything it is that most people have a "fuck you I got mine" attitude.

[Lathum]

Filings show Musk gave a Trump super PAC 75 million dollars last night. I'm sure he won't want anything in return though.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't think we suck at long term planning.

I think it's very evident. When economic conditions are bad, we don't care who is actually responsible, we blame the guy in office and vote em out, aka the 'fierce urgency of now'. When they're good, we support that guy and don't care what else they do. Take the response to COVID. When it showed up in China, and then horrific stories came out of Italy and they warned us to repeatedly get ready, we stuck our heads in the sand - I'm talking the average person here, not the national political leadership. Panic buying began when it showed up in the US. The number of people saying 'oh, that's definitely coming here eventually, let me stock up now' was virtually nil. The number of people interested in more aggressive steps against it skyrocketed precisely as soon as it was largely too late. The history of 1918 pandemic is the same. It's just how humans have always operated. We are the Ostrich Brigade.

[GrantDawg]

This race is remarkable for its closeness but also the insane stability of polls here in the closing weeks. I threw together a quick chart looking at the National RCP averages post-Labor Day going back to 2008.

This race just doesn’t seem to budge on average! pic.twitter.com/iecuUVyJ5e
— Kristen Soltis Anderson (@KSoltisAnderson) October 16, 2024