Football timeout strategy

dixieflatline · 10-06-2003, 11:28 AM

I am watching the last couple of minutes of the first half of the Viking Falcon game. Here is the situation: Falcons 13 Vikings 12 with 1:30 left on the clock. The Falcons just ran Duckett up the middle and now are facing a 3rd and 9 at the Viking 15. Both teams have all their timeouts remaining and the clock is running.

[rant]I am screaming for the vikings to call a timeout. You have got a high powered offense and all your timeouts left. No mention of a possible timeout by the announcers, of course. The Falcons run the clock make the first down and get into the end zone a couple of plays later with a mere 10 seconds left on the clock.

Looking over the AP stories and a couple of stories on the web no mention of a possible timeout useage.

The Vikings came back in the second half to win the game but in my opinion they really blew a chance at the end of the first half.

It seems like clock management is sorely lacking in the NFL. Why don't coaches use their timeouts in situations like this?[/rant]

Butter · 10-06-2003, 11:46 AM

I think when the other team has the ball, it would be perceived as giving them extra time rather than giving yourself extra time.

Glengoyne · 10-06-2003, 11:51 AM

I don't know that not going out of their way to have a shot at returning a kickoff, and eeking out a field goal as the first half ends, qualifies for clock mis-management. I do understand your pain though. I have seen a number of games where a team is driving for a go ahead or tying score, and the team in the lead just lets the clock roll. I have often found myself screaming at the T.V. in those circumstances.

ice4277 · 10-06-2003, 12:04 PM

NFL teams don't seem to be as concerned in the last couple minutes about clock conservation as they used to be. I think a lot of teams are worried about trying to force something and getting burned on a turnover. I'm not sure I would have done any differently were I in that situation. If the ball is on the Atlanta 20 I might, but probably not if it were on my own 20.

dixieflatline · 10-06-2003, 12:10 PM

A minute and thirty seconds is way more than enough time to drive 15 yards in the NFL so if people think that calling a timeout there is giving the other team extra time then so be it. Coaches in the NFL seem to be pretty conservative, as a group, to me. Mike Tice, on the other hand, is pretty aggressive. Going for two against the Saints last year when he was down by one and several forth down attempts this year. If he isn't going to start calling timeouts on defense like this then nobody will. End of the half is bad but like Glengoyne said end of the game is even worse. I would consider this clock mismangaement but maybe there is a better(different) term for it.

Don't get me wrong I don't root for the Vikings at all but when I see things like this it just makes my eyes roll.

TroyF · 10-06-2003, 12:46 PM

There has been a lot of that going on this year. My favorite example to point to is the Miami/Buffalo game a couple of weeks ago.

End of the fourth, Bills down by 10. 1rst down and 10 from the 30 yard line. No timeouts left. 30 seconds left.

They have only TWO chances of tying the game from this position. Either they throw the ball into the end zone now and score, or they kick the field goal now and try to get the onside kick. The best strategy is to kick the field goal. If you get the onside kick, you have a couple of plays worth of time to throw some hail mary's. It's not likely to happen, but your goal in this situation has to be to give yourself the best chance.

The Bills solution? Throw the ball inside the hashmarks, let the clock roll down to 10 seconds before they get another play off and end the ball game. If they had their backups in there, I could see not giving a crap. If you are going to risk Bledsoe and Moulds throwing the ball up the field, why not give them a chance to win?

TroyF

cuervo72 · 10-06-2003, 12:58 PM

Not likely to happen, but the Redskins almost pulled it off yesterday.

Vince · 10-06-2003, 01:04 PM

How about that Redskins game by the way? Hall makes a clutch, LONG field goal, Ramsey throws one of the best passes I've seen in a long time, and then proceeds to miss a wide open Coles to tie the game by about 40 feet. Amazing finish.

sabotai · 10-06-2003, 02:34 PM

"They have only TWO chances of tying the game from this position. Either they throw the ball into the end zone now and score, or they kick the field goal now and try to get the onside kick. The best strategy is to kick the field goal. If you get the onside kick, you have a couple of plays worth of time to throw some hail mary's. It's not likely to happen, but your goal in this situation has to be to give yourself the best chance. "

I disagree. IMO, you go for the TD first. If you kick the FG now, that takes about 5 seconds. Then a few seconds for the onside kick. So you're down to about 20-23 seconds on the clock. You are at your own 40 yardline or so. You have to all 60 yards to get the TD in 20 seconds.

But if you go for the TD and get it in 2 or 3 plays (going out of bounds for each play like you should), you would probably get the TD in 15 or 20 seconds. That leaves 10-15 seconds. You get th eonside kick, down to 7-13 seconds. But you only need to go about 20-30 yards, which is doable in the time needed.

It's a tight fit either way, but with the way defenses play late in the game, getting a TD with 20 seconds left and 60 yards to go is nearly impossible, but getting into FG range (30 yards) in just 10 seconds is incredibly easy. How many games do we see end with game winning FG's with seconds left as opposed to game winning TD's with seconds left?

dixieflatline · 10-06-2003, 02:55 PM

I can see Sabotai's reasoning in the Bills/Phins game though I agree with Troy that a FG might be called for. After the onside kick you still have some distance to go but a hail mary is the more likely success from your own 40 and just a couple of ticks on the clock.

As for the Skins game I also saw the end of that and except for the timeout wasted on forth down the skins played it perfectly. They needed 11 points and played to get 11 points.

Back to the Viking game for a minute. At the time they were down one and were either going to be down 4 or down 8 after atlanta scored. If there is a chance to give my offense the ball with more than a minute left and possibly two timeouts I am going to try for that every time. Even if I have Jon Kitna as my QB I feel that it is more likely that my offense will get points than the defense will get points. This is even more true if I am going to head into the locker room behind. Even a FG to end the half can be very useful.

dixieflatline · 10-06-2003, 02:58 PM

Quote:

But if you go for the TD and get it in 2 or 3 plays (going out of bounds for each play like you should), you would probably get the TD in 15 or 20 seconds. That leaves 10-15 seconds. You get th eonside kick, down to 7-13 seconds. But you only need to go about 20-30 yards, which is doable in the time needed.

One other tidbit. I believe in the NFL no time will run off the clock if you recover the onsides kick. The NFL has a rule that says once your recover the kick you cannot advance it(i.e. the ball is dead). Since the clock doesn't start until the ball is touched either no time, or very very little, should run off the clock.

10-06-2003, 11:46 AM	#2
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	I think when the other team has the ball, it would be perceived as giving them extra time rather than giving yourself extra time. __________________ My listening habits

10-06-2003, 12:58 PM	#7
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Not likely to happen, but the Redskins almost pulled it off yesterday. __________________ null

10-06-2003, 01:04 PM	#8
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	How about that Redskins game by the way? Hall makes a clutch, LONG field goal, Ramsey throws one of the best passes I've seen in a long time, and then proceeds to miss a wide open Coles to tie the game by about 40 feet. Amazing finish. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

10-06-2003, 11:51 AM	#3
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	I don't know that not going out of their way to have a shot at returning a kickoff, and eeking out a field goal as the first half ends, qualifies for clock mis-management. I do understand your pain though. I have seen a number of games where a team is driving for a go ahead or tying score, and the team in the lead just lets the clock roll. I have often found myself screaming at the T.V. in those circumstances.

10-06-2003, 12:04 PM	#4
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	NFL teams don't seem to be as concerned in the last couple minutes about clock conservation as they used to be. I think a lot of teams are worried about trying to force something and getting burned on a turnover. I'm not sure I would have done any differently were I in that situation. If the ball is on the Atlanta 20 I might, but probably not if it were on my own 20.

10-06-2003, 12:10 PM	#5
dixieflatline High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2003	A minute and thirty seconds is way more than enough time to drive 15 yards in the NFL so if people think that calling a timeout there is giving the other team extra time then so be it. Coaches in the NFL seem to be pretty conservative, as a group, to me. Mike Tice, on the other hand, is pretty aggressive. Going for two against the Saints last year when he was down by one and several forth down attempts this year. If he isn't going to start calling timeouts on defense like this then nobody will. End of the half is bad but like Glengoyne said end of the game is even worse. I would consider this clock mismangaement but maybe there is a better(different) term for it. Don't get me wrong I don't root for the Vikings at all but when I see things like this it just makes my eyes roll.

10-06-2003, 12:46 PM	#6
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	There has been a lot of that going on this year. My favorite example to point to is the Miami/Buffalo game a couple of weeks ago. End of the fourth, Bills down by 10. 1rst down and 10 from the 30 yard line. No timeouts left. 30 seconds left. They have only TWO chances of tying the game from this position. Either they throw the ball into the end zone now and score, or they kick the field goal now and try to get the onside kick. The best strategy is to kick the field goal. If you get the onside kick, you have a couple of plays worth of time to throw some hail mary's. It's not likely to happen, but your goal in this situation has to be to give yourself the best chance. The Bills solution? Throw the ball inside the hashmarks, let the clock roll down to 10 seconds before they get another play off and end the ball game. If they had their backups in there, I could see not giving a crap. If you are going to risk Bledsoe and Moulds throwing the ball up the field, why not give them a chance to win? TroyF

10-06-2003, 02:34 PM	#9
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	"They have only TWO chances of tying the game from this position. Either they throw the ball into the end zone now and score, or they kick the field goal now and try to get the onside kick. The best strategy is to kick the field goal. If you get the onside kick, you have a couple of plays worth of time to throw some hail mary's. It's not likely to happen, but your goal in this situation has to be to give yourself the best chance. " I disagree. IMO, you go for the TD first. If you kick the FG now, that takes about 5 seconds. Then a few seconds for the onside kick. So you're down to about 20-23 seconds on the clock. You are at your own 40 yardline or so. You have to all 60 yards to get the TD in 20 seconds. But if you go for the TD and get it in 2 or 3 plays (going out of bounds for each play like you should), you would probably get the TD in 15 or 20 seconds. That leaves 10-15 seconds. You get th eonside kick, down to 7-13 seconds. But you only need to go about 20-30 yards, which is doable in the time needed. It's a tight fit either way, but with the way defenses play late in the game, getting a TD with 20 seconds left and 60 yards to go is nearly impossible, but getting into FG range (30 yards) in just 10 seconds is incredibly easy. How many games do we see end with game winning FG's with seconds left as opposed to game winning TD's with seconds left?

10-06-2003, 02:55 PM	#10
dixieflatline High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2003	I can see Sabotai's reasoning in the Bills/Phins game though I agree with Troy that a FG might be called for. After the onside kick you still have some distance to go but a hail mary is the more likely success from your own 40 and just a couple of ticks on the clock. As for the Skins game I also saw the end of that and except for the timeout wasted on forth down the skins played it perfectly. They needed 11 points and played to get 11 points. Back to the Viking game for a minute. At the time they were down one and were either going to be down 4 or down 8 after atlanta scored. If there is a chance to give my offense the ball with more than a minute left and possibly two timeouts I am going to try for that every time. Even if I have Jon Kitna as my QB I feel that it is more likely that my offense will get points than the defense will get points. This is even more true if I am going to head into the locker room behind. Even a FG to end the half can be very useful.

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