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12-21-2005, 01:06 PM
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Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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A Feast For Crows: **WARNING THERE BE MASSIVE SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD!!**
Ok. I am only about a month late to the party, but, hey, I read slow. Always have, always will. I also had to finish "Storm of Swords" and was loathe to burn through this one. I wanted to savor it like a fine wine, sipping it over many long hours simply because I know that it will be a long, long, long time before I get another of this vintage... Anyway, enough with the wine metaphors, though like a bottle of Chateau Neuf Du Pap, I'm fine like wine when I start to rap! I have to agree with what Terps-K and GrantDawg have already said. This was the weakest of the four books. No question about that. It didn't feel nearly as epic as the other three, which isn't surprising considering the "war" is pretty much over and we're only getting a certain part of the story. The characters were all so scattered that there was no real unifying theme to most of the chapters. Also, let's face it, the "epic" characters of these books, so far, have been Jon and Dany. Jon was a kid going to the Nights Watch and rose to Lord Commander. Dany was introduced as a young princess in exile under the boot heels of her vicious brother and is now a queen of thousands and has three pet dragons. That's epic stuff. Arya? Sansa? Cersei? Even Brienne and Jaime, while fascinating and cool characters, aren't so epic. I think a lot of the epic feel of the first three books comes with those two and with arc the War of the Five Kings. Neither Jon or Dany are in this one and the war is over, so = not so epic. Don’t get me wrong, by “epic” I don’t mean the best or most interesting. While I love the stuff on the Wall and all of the events and characters there, I tend to find Jon one of the least interesting perspective characters. I like him a lot, but he’s the closest thing to a stereotypical fantasy hero as we have seen. I tended to find Dany’s chapters to be a little dull too, though there were some great scenes. So, yes, I do feel this book suffered from being split. That said, he did some interesting things this time around with what I consider "minor perspectives", e.g., Asha, Areo Hotah, and Aeron(?). Could I have done without Areo's chapter? Sure. But I liked it. He is cool. Big dude with a massive axe. What's there not to love? While in the prior books you had different people doing different things each one sort of had a central story at its core: 1) Ned Stark in Kings Landing and all the associated mysteries/murders; 2) The assault on Kings Landing; and 3) The end of the war. This book lacked that core arc. Also, it seems to me that most of the perspective chapters within each book had a particular arc that, though not complete by any stretch of the imagination, still had some notion of a beginning, middle, and end. While some did here (e.g., Sam and Cersei) Too many felt like they didn't. Many of just felt like that just sort of were meandered around a bit, like Jaime and Brienne. Still, I loved reading the book. I looked forward to it every time I sat down to read it. I love his world. I love the characters. I enjoy spending time there. While epic events and such are fun, I don't necessarily need them. Some thoughts on each perspective character: Cersei: Heh! She is so stupid and retarded. Up until she captured and started torturing the shit out of the poor Blue Bard, I was loving her chapters. It was such a relief to watch someone be stupid and fuck things up but not really caring too much about the consequences because she's only screwing over herself or people I don't much care for (as opposed to say the old Ned or Catelyn chapters where I was pulling what little hair I have left out each time they did something stupid). I especially enjoyed how pleased with herself she always seemed to be while totally fucking up. Good times! Martin's strength has always been his ability to write the perspective chapters exceptionally well so that you really get into the head of the character and see the world through their eyes. It was fun to do that with Cersei. Not like with Tyrion, but a whole different kind of fun. I thought the lesbian thing was stupid. But, oh well... The last couple of chapters became pretty gruesome. I guess it should come as no surprise considering it was just Cersei reaping what she had sewn. I loved the scene when she was in the bath and Tommen was demanding that he be allowed to joust and be taught by Loras and that he would get to have kittens and not eat beats while Jamie was laughing all the while. I laughed and laughed at that. Solid moves with her choosing of her small council and restoring that holy order of knights. Very sound. Excellent. She is a genius. Small points. WTF is that with Loras? Another very cool, interesting character killed "off screen." What was that about Davos' head and hands being cutoff? I am not buying that. I refuse to accept that as the truth. Also, what the hell is Qyburn doing with undead Gregor? Pupeteers? WTF?! It will be interesting to see what happens when Gregorstein is unveiled. Arya: I was surprised (pleasantly so) to see she was in this book. I love Arya and the fact that the word "stupid" is mentioned well over two dozen times in each of her chapters. Not much really happened with her, though it was fun to see her run into Sam. I guess if she's going to become a super assassin woman than you have to have to obligatory super assassin training stuff. BLIND? BLIND? WTF?!?! Brienne: I really enjoyed her chapters. Her perspective was exactly how I would imagine it would be. She is what she is. Obviously she is in love with Jaime, but there was one line in there where she mentions (in thought) that she was to find Sansa to restore Jaime's honor. That warmed the cockles of my heart. Here was my first reaction upon reading her final chapter: FUCK YOU CATELYN STARK OR LADY STONEHEART OR WHATEVER THEY CALL YOU, YOU FUCKING UNDEAD BITCH! You sucked when you were alive and you suck when you are dead, more so even. I HATE YOU. I HATE YOU SO VERY VERY MUCH. (I apologize for the profanity) Have you guys all read the Hedge Knight (the novella or graphic novel)? Do you remember Dunk's shield? A tree with the falling star above it? Brienne had her shield re-painted to match one she saw in her father's armory. Here is a description of that shield on which her new shield is based: "She remembered how she'd run her fingertips across the cracked and fading paint, over the green leaves of the tree, and along the path of the falling star." There was just too much Brienne in this book and she's too cool to die like that. Though I am still not convinced she's alive... Speaking of Lady Stoneheart... Boy, I really sort of once liked the Brotherhood without Banners or whatever they called themselves. Thoros seems to be the only one with any conscience left. They are hollow shells of the men they once were. Lem, One-Eyed Jack, all of them. Wow. This war and Catelyn's hatred seems to really have taken its toll on them. They were totally different when it was Dondarrion in command. Wow. Speaking of Dondarrion, apparently yet another really cool character killed off screen. There was one line from Maester Aemon I really liked that was something along the lines of "Fire consumes, but cold preserves." While obvious, I think it's a good parallel between the Other and R'hollor. R'hollor most definitely consumes. He consumed Dondarrion completely. He used him up and kept him alive until he found a more suitable vessel for his consumption (Catelyn). R'hollor seems to thrive on destruction, fire, consumption and Dondarrion was good for that. While he and his men believed that they were fighting for the smallfolk (which they were), they were also adding to the destruction of the land. Then Catelyn Stark comes floating down the river and what better fuel to add to the fire than revenge and pure hatred? So R'hollor leaves Dondarrion and inherits Catelyn. The all-consuming revenge and anger begins to infect the entire brotherhood as they start claiming more and more lives, not out of any desire to protect the land or smallfolk, but for pure vengeance. Not a good path. It's interesting that we didn't see certain other of that gang like Anguy the Archer and Greenbeard. The Hound. Ok... So, uh... maybe he's not quite dead yet either. I guess the speculation is that the big gravedigger dude at the Quiet Isle is actually the Hound. He is described as bigger than Brienne and as being lame so both would seem to fit. Also, all the silent brothers wear cowls over their faces so only their eyes show. This would hide his scars. The Elder Brother (who I liked a lot) did say The Hound died there in his arms, but he also mentioned Sandor Clegane is “at peace” or “at rest”. He also said that he himself had “died” and was reborn in the Quiet Isle. I am thinking the whole Hound is dead/Sandor Clegane is at rest thing is just an Obi Wan like metaphor "Darth Vader killed your father." The Elder Brother did seem to know an awful lot about Sandor and is renowned for his healing hands. Also, he told his story about his brutal past, the killing, the rapes, etc. I am now convinced he's alive... It would be sweet for him to atone for his sins and come back and kill the Gregorstein. Ironborn: I was already to hate on these guys, but at the end of it I enjoyed their chapters. I much preferred Asha's and Victarion's chapters to Aeron's (he was pretty one note, Drowned God blah blah blah, What is dead cannot be killed blah blah blah). I liked the Kingsmoot. I liked the assault along the mander. They were badasses. Euron and his ship of freaks is a cool concept and I liked the notion of Victarion heading east. Could be very cool. Sansa: I have long been in the “pity Sansa” camp much more so than “hate Sansa” camp. It's amazing how different her perspective chapters are in this one as opposed to the first three. She is a totally different person. Her innocence has been shattered. Sweetrobin is annoying. I hope he just dies soon. It's always fun to see Littlefinger play the game because he's so good at it. Other than that not much really happened in the Eyrie. Speaking of the Eyrie, there was all of this talk (in all the books) about how impregnable the Eyrie is. While the Vale is large and has a lot of knights, who gives a shit about the Eyrie? I mean, seriously. Sure it might be impregnable, but it doesn't seem all that hard to keep whoever is in there trapped up there forever. It's totally impractical as a castle. It seems like it would be as easy keeping people stuck up there as it would to keep people from getting in. A very cool concept, but I always wondered... Why? Jaime: His perspective chapters are always a joy. Always. I loved his relationship with Ilyn Payne. Jaime has a ton of issues and is in a bit of a mid-life crisis. A guy who can't speak, read, or write is a perfect sounding board for him. I enjoyed the siege on Riverun. I was glad to see the Blackfish escape (aka the only non-annoying, non-competely fucking useless, nay, harmful Tully we've ever met) even though he came across as an asshole to Jaime. Then again, a lot of people do when dealing with Jaime. He brings that out in people. Poor guy... Dorne: I liked these chapters. Some very interesting stuff here. I was pretty convinced that Doran Martell had a plan all along. I wasn't too surprised to see that the others weren't all that bright. Oberyn clearly wasn't a bright guy. Sassy and kick-ass with a spear, sure, but not overly bright. Even before we met them Dornish folks were sort of described as fiercesome hot-heads, which most appear to be. Some good stuff here. I liked the Darkstark. I loved Areo Hotah and I do like Doran Martell even though the descriptions of his gout make me uncomfortable. As with Victarion, it will be interesting to see the interplay between Dorne (Quentyn) and Dany in the East play out. Tom O Sevens: I forgot about his run in with Edmure. It was descibed in SoS, I think. He wrote some song about a floppy fish which was about Edmure's inability to seal the deal with some woman who Tom then slept with. There was that great moment after Jaime released Edmure when Jaime asks Tom to sing for Edmure and he replies "No. Not him. Get him away from me." Good stuff! I also enjoyed Tom and Jaime's meeting in Riverun when Jaime says he will be leaving soon and Tom replies "I'm sorry to hear that, my lord." (i.e., that's too bad, I would like to have them hang you). The Prologue: I sort of over looked this a bit. It was nice to see the prologue swing back in the end. Pate was obviously killed by a faceless man who then took his place. I just wonder if Marwyn hired the faceless man or there is some other player at work here. I think it's the former. I did like the faceless man's reply to Pate when he asked "Who are you?" The reply "A stranger. No one. Truly." Good stuff! Another thing, Alleras, who is a novice at the citadel and in the prologue and the guy who intercepts Sam and brings him to meet Marwyn is actually... a Sand Snake. Alleras = Sarella, one of Oberyn's daughters. The only one not captured. She is pretending to be a man and is obviously working some sort of revenge angle. The description of him/her is dead on Oberyn: "He had skin the color of a light brown ale and a cap of tight black curls that came to a widow's peak above his big black eyes." (S)he even admits to being half-Dornish. I may be forgetting someone and I know this is long, rambling, and likely incoherent. As for the future of the books... I think that this was a cleaning up the political stuff for the "main event" the whole Others vs. Dragons (R'hollor) thing. I still think there is a lot of political activity left hanging out there. I mean, Littlefinger is still around and will be poised to strike soon. You also have the resurgence of the Seven. We read a TON more about the Seven thanks to the new High Septon, Meribald, the Quiet Island, etc. than we had read in the first three books combined. The books will likely to start taking a more fantastical/religious course in the future. It will be interesting to see how that unfolds... At the moment, I have no love for R'hollor. I never liked Melisandre, but always liked Dondarrion, Thoros, and that crew. I now hate that crew (except Thoros), so that god has nothing going for it. I am still have no clue where Cold Hands fits into the picture. Does he have any relation to the Others? General notes: I found the sex scenes to be poorly written. They seemed more like fan fic nonsense than anything else. It’s not that I am a prude or get offended about sex in a book, I just didn’t like how the scenes were written/unfolded. I didn’t have much of a problem with Tyrion’s sex scenes in prior books. Dunno, just a small thing in any event. Too much description of food, herb encrusted this and that and too many descriptions of coats of arms. Then again, we all know George RR Martin is a big fella (loves his food) and loves those little toy knights, so I guess those vivid and constant descriptions should come as no surprise. In closing... Like I said at the beginning of this rambling post, this was the weakest of the four. That said, to me, it's like saying "Two Towers was the weakest of the LOTR trilogy." It's still a fucking great movie. I enjoyed reading this book a lot. While I don't think the story was pushed that far along at all, Martin certainly did nothing to "ruin" or sully the series in this book. I had fun with it and look forward to re-reading it once more a month or so before Dance With Dragons comes out... Whenever that will be. Did I mention that I cannot fucking believe that I hate Catelyn Stark/Lady Stoneheart so very, very much? Brienne’s sword should be called Oathbreaker, MY ASS!!!!! DAMN SHE'S SO FUCKING ANNOYING! GAHHH! I'm sure there's more, but that's all I got now. (Sorry for some of the weird formatting. Tried to fix it and couldn't.)
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). Last edited by Honolulu_Blue : 12-21-2005 at 01:56 PM. |
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12-21-2005, 01:24 PM
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The boy who cried Trout
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: TX
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Well, I'm pretty much a 180 from you, HB. I liked Stoneheart. She thinks everything she loved in the world is gone. She's been raised from the dead, but it didn't quite work out. Brianne is now working for Jamie Lannister. What more would you expect? She's an avenger, pure and simple. Revenge is her motivation, and justice may be a close second. She doesn't care about anyone or anything, so Brianne get's no special treatment. You can hate her, but I think she's absoultely fantastic.
And I must have missed the part about Gregor being brought back from the dead. Can you tell me what chapter you saw that in? Man, talk about a missed plot point! What I really liked about this books is that it filled in a lot of the gaps. No, there was no sweeping epic in this book, but it was nice to get to know the characters a little better. I expected more from Cersi, but she has more in common with Catlyn Stark then she knows. My hate for the Frey's grew more in this book, and it's nice to see them being treated as if they have the plague. Now Highgarden is going to make a bid for the throne, and there should be lots of fun stuff to deal with coming up, and it was all laid out in this book. |
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12-21-2005, 01:31 PM
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Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Quote:
I just have hated Catelyn since beginning. I understand she deserves sympathy since in her mind her husband and all of her children were killed, Rob right in front of her face. So I understand where her rage and anger comes from. I mean, if anyone would be consumed with pure vengeance and hate it would be her. But I still hate her. I always have. I hated the way she treated Jo. She made a number of bone headed decisios throughout and would never admit to being wrong. I couldn't stand her and I can't stand her now. Oathbreaker... BAH!! It's also clear what affect she's having on the brotherhood around her. It's not good. They never come out and mention that Gregor is alive. If aything they talk about how his head was being brought down to Dorne. There were a few occassions, however, when Qyburn mentions a few times about this great champion that no man can stand against. They mention raising this person to the Kingsguard and then he brings it up again at the end of Cersei's final chapter. While it's not 100% sure, I'd bet dollars to donuts that its some sort of undead Gregorstein creation.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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12-21-2005, 02:39 PM
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lynchburg, VA
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Quote:
There was also the line about setting beetles loose on his head before sending it to Dorne. I took that to mean that the head wasn't Gregor's but they wanted to make it unrecognizable so that no one would notice. I agree on Catelyn. She always seemed like Cersei-lite to me. Annoying and ineffectual. This book (and the next one) were obviously intended to set up the story for the final two books of the series. In that light, I don't think we can judge it until we see how the rest of the story plays out. It's like how "The Two Towers" was the weakest from an action standpoint of the three LOTR novels, but it was crucial to the series as a whole. |
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12-21-2005, 02:41 PM
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#5 | |
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The boy who cried Trout
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: TX
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I just don't see that happening. How would they explain it to the rest of the Kingsguard? They all have such an inflated sense of honor...serving with Gregor alive would have been bad enough. |
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12-21-2005, 02:52 PM
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#6 | |
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Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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I agree that it was a stupid idea of Cersei and Qyburn to think they could make Gegorstein on of the Kingsguard, but they do make metion of it. But then again, it is Cersei and Qyburn and stupid, zany plots are their thing! Check out pages 478-479. Qyburn: "Should Loras fall, Your Grace will need to find another worthy for the Kingsguard." Cersei: "Someone splendid .. Someone so youg and swift and strong that Tommen will forget all about Ser Loras. A bit of gallantry would not be amiss, but his head should noy be full of foolish notions. Do you know of such a man?" Qyburn: "Alas, no. I had another sort of champion in mind. What he lacks in gallantry he will give you tenfold in devotion. He will protect your son, kill your enemies, and keep your secrets, no living man will be able to withstand him." Cersei: "So you say. Words are wind. When the hour is ripe, you may produce this paragon of yours and we will see if he is all that you have promised." Qyburn: "They will sing of him, I swear it. May I ask about the armor?" Cersei: "I have placed your order. The armorer thinks that I am mad. He assures me that no man is strong enough to move and fight in such a weight of plate." That's the biggest hint at Gregorstein there is. As for the Kingsguard objecting... Who is left? Boros Blount? Meryn Trant? Osmund Kettleback? Jaime? Jaime is the only one who would object, the others are/were deep in Cersei's pocket. It's all a pipe dream now, but that was their plan...
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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12-21-2005, 03:30 PM
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#7 |
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The boy who cried Trout
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: TX
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Now that you mention it...I just figured he had someone else, but it makes sense.
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12-22-2005, 05:05 AM
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#8 |
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World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Great stuff, HB. You're right on with just about every point.
Last edited by GrantDawg : 12-22-2005 at 05:06 AM. |
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12-27-2005, 11:46 AM
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#9 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Finished! Though mostly on the plane to Pakistan!
I liked the book very much. Saying it wasn't as good as the first three is a given, but only because the first trilogy had a story arc that had a beginning, middle, and end, and this book is the first step in changing gears. The War of the Five Kings is over and now for something different. A good transitional book and more evidence than Dany is the prince(ss) that was promised. Maester Ameon seems to come to that conclusion and it appears that Dany is going to get a lot of offers soon. You have Dorne, who seemingly have planned an alliance with the Targaryens since the second after Elia was killed. Then Marwyn is going to show up. Who knows if he'll want to be here Maester or something else. Then, there is no doubt, that she'll run into the Ironmen. If DWD encompasses some time period after AFFC, we may see the beginnings of this tug of war over Dany. Hell, Victarion may bid for her hand as well, even after his lack of success with his wives. I enjoyed the looks into the inner workings of the Ironmen and Dorne. Martin is seemingly trying to encompass more of the world he's created into the story. Also, Oldtower and the Maesters have been brought in. Whereas in the War of the Five Kings, you had the North, the Trident, Storm's End, the Vale, Highgarden, the Wall, and King's Landing, Martin has brought in the Iron Islands, Dorne, and Oldtown to complete points of views in Westeros. Btw, speaking of which, it seems that Doran may be Littlefinger's equal in scheming. He is willing to wait many years and do some questionable things to outsiders in order to win out in the end. His plan has taken decades to come to fruition, but the pieces seem to be in play. Speaking of Littlefinger, I can't be the only one who LOVED when he explained to Sansa why Harry was "the Heir" and his plan to unveil Sansa when the time comes. Of course this means Sweetrobin is gone earlier than natural causes may indicate. Listening to the trip down the mountain, I have a feeling that Lord Robert Arryn may meet an untimely end when a strong wind blows him down the narrow bridge you have to traverse to get down from the Eyrie. Oh, and Cersei, LOL. Littlefinger's line that she doesn't take into account that her pieces may not move in the way she wants them too was preciously demonstrated. And Pycelle and Swyft running the realm!! Could it be that Swyft was playing dumb, but planned everything out? Both seem very active after taking over. Tommen's actions should be interesting from this point forward. Both his mother and wife captured by the High Septon, who now has SWORDS to back his words (dumb Cersei). I hope Brienne is still alive and if she is, it should be interesting to see what she does with Jaime. HB, I was wondering about the Champion. I couldn't imagine who it could possibly be, but after reading what you wrote, I have to agree. It's the only one that makes sense... especially with Qyburn, who got kicked out of the order for wanting to find out about death! Oh, as for "Coldhands", one explination I've read is that it is actually Benjen Stark. If true, may be interesting. Benjen's fate has been a mystery for a very, very long time. If he was dead, I think we'd have found out throughout the 3.5 books since he has gone missing.
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"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
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12-28-2005, 12:01 AM
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#10 | |
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Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Quote:
Squiddi, great stuff! Welcome back! I agree with all the above. I've always thought Coldhands may, in fact, be Benjen Stark too. It seemed to fit since he was wearing black, but I can't wait to see if it is or not. Should be revealed quite early in DWD. I agree with you, Doran Martell knows what he's doing. Martin loves the whole brother dynamic, so it is no surprise that you have Oberyn, the man of action and firey temper, the jewel in the crown of Dorne and on the other hand you have Doran, sickly, patient, and not all that well respected, but clever and smart as hell. I also think Areo Hotah is a good physical symbol of Doran's inner discipline. The Dany chapters will get very, very interesting with Marwyn, Quentyn, and Victarion all on their way east. I agree this is definitely a transitional book. It sort of signifies a big shift in the focus of the conflict. I think thing will get a lot more religious/magical in the coming books. You have the big showdown of the R'hollor (dragons) vs. The Other and then you have a resurgent Seven (the new High Septon and his army) thrown in the mix. Politics obviously will still play some role, so long as Littlefinger, Doran Martell, and the like are around, but things will likely soon be out of their control.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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12-28-2005, 12:28 AM
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#11 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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how'd i miss this thread on the 21st?!?!! GODDAMIT. okay, so i'll weigh in tomorrow once i have a chance to think on things and can pay attention to what i'm going to type
Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 12-28-2005 at 12:43 AM. |
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12-28-2005, 12:40 AM
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#12 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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You know... thinking about it... The Others HAVE to have a King, don't they? Some sort of leader who is revealed as the ringleader. After all, they knew exactly when to strike again (when the Westeros was busy bloodying each other and the North in disarray), but they've made the mistake that dragons will soon be entering the picture.
Though I don't know if R'hillor has anything to do with dragons  . The R'hillor-ites probably like to thing it does so, however.Oh, and Doran amuses me greatly. He seems the only calm and levelheaded person in Dorne and in order to prevent basically his ENTIRE family from fucking up his plans, he has to jail them all. LOL! Look, guys, I know you want to go to war yesterday, but trust me, it'll be better with dragons on our side and stuff. And I wonder if Victarion took the dragon horn with him...
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"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
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12-28-2005, 04:51 PM
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#13 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Quote:
So... uh... how's the thinking going? 
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"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
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01-08-2006, 07:17 PM
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#14 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fresno, CA
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I don't think Death or Un-Death for that matter has altered Catelyn's personality much at all.
I'm hoping Briene makes it, but it looks like it will be a two book wait to find out. I'm wondering about the great champion as well. I like the Gregor-stein line of thought. Qyburn is pretty much a mad scientist. Also, who has Sam fallen in league with? Alleras is a familiar name, and I seem to remember a couple of families sending sons off to join the Citadel. I just can't place it. I had not at all considered that the Hound could be alive. I might even go back and read that chapter. I agree with pretty much everything that HB said. 'Cept I liked the Aeron Greyjoy chapters. That whole drowned god religion is pretty cool. I also figured that Doran Martell had more going on than his daughter figured, and I don't think it could be said enough that Aero is my new favorite bit player. |
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01-08-2006, 07:32 PM
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#15 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Well Catelyn is definetly more pissed off
. But I guess she'd be mad at Brienne anyway.
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"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
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01-08-2006, 07:32 PM
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#16 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
It seems pretty clear that Alleras is Sarella Sand, the Sand Snake who is mentioned in Areo's chapter as "playing a game in Oldtown" and the other clues match up as well. Personally, I found the info about the Citadel the most interesting in the book, what with them potentially being responsible for the death of the dragons the first time around. Also, Marwyn has been mentioned before-he was the maester who trained the sorceress who killed Khal Drogo and he was also mentioned by Qyburn. Overall, I enjoyed the book for its slower pace and in depth look at the "small folk." I think Martin set up events in the Seven Kingdoms to where the next book can advance significantly time-wise with relatively few chapters devoted to the south. I will be interested to see what the Tyrells are up to, as I in know way believe that Loras is near death or even hurt...that seems far too convinient and exactly what Cersei wanted. |
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01-08-2006, 08:03 PM
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#17 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fresno, CA
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My wife isn't buying the Sandor lives bit. We're gonna have to reread that chapter I guess. She is, howver, chomping at the bit to know if anyone knows if Jamie or Cersei were born first. The reason is that the prophecy says that the valanqar will strangle her, and valanqar turns out to be translated into "little brother". If Cersei was born first...then either Jamie or Tyrion would fit the bill.
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01-08-2006, 08:05 PM
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#18 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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i believe it mentions at one point (though I can't cite book/page) that Cersi was born first. I think she refers to Jaime as "little brother" at one point...
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01-08-2006, 08:10 PM
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#19 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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dola
http://www.towerofthehand.com/ doesn't say anything about it on here, but this is a neat site anyway. it's an encyclopedia for the series |
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