O'Reilly radio "Factor" is dieing

GrantDawg · 05-01-2003, 02:11 PM

Check it out:

RADIO 'NO FACTOR': CABLE KING O'REILLY DISASTER ON THE DIAL

Bill O'Reilly's Radio Ratings Revealed Publicly For The First Time

**Exclusive**

Just released ARBITRON radio ratings show FOX NEWS CHANNEL and bestselling author Bill O'Reilly in near-collapse, just one year after launching a nationally syndicated rival to Rush Limbaugh.

MORE

For the completed Winter Book [January thru March '03], O'Reilly trailed Limbaugh in the same time slot by more than 5,000%, in the extreme.

Top industry insiders have kept the numbers under wraps -- until now.

While O'Reilly's nightly TV show has produced consistent wins for FOX NEWS -- topping all viewers watching current affairs on cable -- the radio FACTOR has experienced a polar opposite response, raising questions about O'Reilly's future in the medium.

ARBITRON registers just 300 listeners in a quarter hour for O'Reilly Radio in Dayton, Ohio; with 200 people in West Palm Beach, Florida.

The DRUDGE REPORT presents the numbers raw and uncensored.

In cities with direct microphone-to-microphone competition, among all tuners over 12-years old:

LOS ANGELES

LIMBAUGH 5.1 SHARE 125,700 [AUDIENCE IN QUARTER HOUR]
O'REILLY 2.2 SHARE 54,100 [AUDIENCE IN QUARTER HOUR]

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 132.3%

CHICAGO

LIMBAUGH 6.6 101,400
O'REILLY 0.3 004,100

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 2,373.2%

SAN FRAN

LIMBAUGH 6.2 77,900
O'REILLY 0.7 08,800

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 785.2%

BOSTON

LIMBAUGH 5.0 40,300
O'REILLY 4.5 36,200

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 11.3%

HOUSTON

LIMBAUGH 6.8 57,000
O'REILLY 1.3 10,700

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 432.7%

SEATTLE

LIMBAUGH 6.7 41,000
O'REILLY 0.4 02,500

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 1540.0%

PORTLAND

LIMBAUGH 7.7 26,800
O'REILLY 3.6 12,600

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 112.7%

PITTSBURGH

LIMBAUGH 13.4 60,200
O'REILLY 02.1 09,500

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 533.7%

SAN DIEGO

LIMBAUGH 6.8 32,800
O'REILLY 2.2 10,700

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 206.5%

WEST PALM BEACH

LIMBAUGH 4.8 10,900
O'REILLY 0.1 00,200

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 5,350%

BUFFALO

LIMBAUGH 11.0 25,200
O'REILLY 01.0 02,200

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 1,045.5%

PROVIDENCE

LIMBAUGH 5.0 15,600
O'REILLY 1.4 04,200

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 271.4%

DAYTON

LIMBAUGH 10.5 17,200
O'REILLY 00.2 00,300

ADVANTAGE: LIMBAUGH 5,633.3%

Editor's Note: In the nation's top radio market, New York City, O'Reilly goes opposite FOX NEWS CHANNEL's Sean Hannity. ARBITRON reports O'Reilly pulls a 2.1 share [19th place in market during 3 to 5 pm on WOR] to WABC Hannity's 4.7 [4th place]. Among males 18-years old and over, O'Reilly trails Hannity in Gotham nearly 3 to 1, with a 2.3 share [18th place] against a 6.1 [First].

Linky

I love this because I hate that my favorite sports radio station interupts its day by having him on from 1-3. I want my Dan Patrick back!

GrantDawg · 05-01-2003, 02:12 PM

Dola: If it is my thread, then the title legally has to be misspelled.

KWhit · 05-01-2003, 02:15 PM

I'm glad to hear this too, cause I hate O'Reilly.

[atlantastuff] But I prefer 790 to 680. [/atlantastuff]

GrantDawg · 05-01-2003, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KWhit
I'm glad to hear this too, cause I hate O'Reilly.

[atlantastuff] But I prefer 790 to 680. [/atlantastuff]

All yankees talking through their noses all day long? No thanks.

Fritz · 05-01-2003, 02:17 PM

the O'Reily radio show is pretty good (I like much better than the TV show), but it is on after my drive home.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 03:01 PM

Interesting, since O'Reilly just produced the best rating ever earned by one of the sports/talk stations in Atlanta. (Granted, that's damning with faint praise, but still)

Alan T · 05-01-2003, 03:11 PM

I think the thing that I am most suprised about is that Limbaugh gets a 5.0 in Boston.. I did not know there was that many conservatives in the entire state...

GrantDawg · 05-01-2003, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Interesting, since O'Reilly just produced the best rating ever earned by one of the sports/talk stations in Atlanta. (Granted, that's damning with faint praise, but still)

*cringe*

KWhit · 05-01-2003, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan T
I think the thing that I am most suprised about is that Limbaugh gets a 5.0 in Boston.. I did not know there was that many conservatives in the entire state...

5 conservatives in a whole state is actually kind of low. I know there are at least 7-8 in my neighborhood alone.

Alan T · 05-01-2003, 03:28 PM

You havent been in Boston lately have you?

Was big culture shock for me compared to when I grew up in Atlanta

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 05:47 PM

Also, I just realized that the numbers quoted are for Persons 12+

That isn't the demo for either guy and isn't a demo anybody would buy either show to reach. The only numbers that'll matter for these two are M25-54 (or something more narrow) and possibly narrowed even further by an income qualifier or other qualitative component.

I happen to have Boston's info handy, so I'll take a look at the 1p-3p segment where the two go head to head.

1p-2p M25-54 and $50k+ HHI
O'Reilly on WTTK 7.2 share
Rush on WRKO 4.1 share

2p-3p same demo
O'Reilly 7.4 share
Rush 3.6 share

This doesn't prove or disprove the the success or failure of O'Reilly's show really, but I think it at least illustrates that looking at different demos produce very different results.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 05:47 PM

edited to remove double post

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 05:47 PM

and removing a third inadvertant post

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 05:47 PM

Hey SkyDog, any way to actually delete these multi-posts instead of me just editing them?

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 05:47 PM

Sorry for the mega-dola gang, it's not unusual for posting messages to be slow to respond for me & 99% of the time just hitting the button again forces a single post on through.

That other 1% of the time produces this kinda mess.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 05:47 PM

And finally the mega-screwup multi post is fully edited.

Fritz · 05-01-2003, 05:55 PM

jeez john, we get it.

CamEdwards · 05-01-2003, 06:00 PM

I would also say this. Since Limbaugh's been on for a much longer period of time, chances are the dominant news/talk station in town carries him. If O'Reilly's on a competitior, chances are the competitor is the #2 or #3 game in town.. which makes it that much harder to compete.

In fairness Jon, all the numbers posted were 12+ numbers, so it's not exactly comparing apples to oranges.

I've listened to O'Reilly before (he's on an also-ran station here in town) and I wasn't impressed. It's not that he's bad, he's just nothing different.

sabotai · 05-01-2003, 06:07 PM

As much as I hate O'Reilly, it's a sad thing that Rush is still leading in ratings against anyone...

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 06:09 PM

Cam, I know it was apples to apples & all, but it's an irrelevant set of apples to apples. Using 12+ for N/T is like trying to measure the success/failure of a gangsta rap station by the number of middle-aged white guys it attracts.

kcchief19 · 05-01-2003, 06:42 PM

True, the 12+ number is not necessarily ideal (especially if you're 19th in the market like O'Reilly is in NY), but it's still pretty surprising the numbers are that low.

Jon -- do you happen to have a copy of the Boston Arbitron numbers at your PC?

Where did you get those numbers? Just curious because I haven't found a good resource for ratings on the 'net.

I'd like to rip the tool that is Matt Drudge for the "revealing" these numbers. I guarantee you that these numbers have not been "hidden." In fact, in those markets where Limbaugh is crushing O'Reilly, I guarantee you that they have plastered those numbers all over town.

Drudge reminds me of the Hollywood gossip columnist in The Onion. In fact, I would probably like Drudge if he were in The Onion -- that's where a lot of his stuff belongs.

Buzzbee · 05-01-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamEdwards
I would also say this. Since Limbaugh's been on for a much longer period of time, chances are the dominant news/talk station in town carries him. If O'Reilly's on a competitior, chances are the competitor is the #2 or #3 game in town.. which makes it that much harder to compete.

I would have to agree here. The fact that O'Reilly is on a sports radio station here in Atlanta probably doesn't help him any. Not to mention that he is up against local cult hero Clark Howard. I know I'm pissed because I usually go to lunch between 1-3 and there's nothing I care to listen to.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 06:52 PM

kcchief -- They're on my PC because I (well, my company) paid nearly $20k a year to get them (and some others) from Arbitron. One of the hazards of owning an ad agency I guess.

As luck would have it, I was working on a media plan for Boston when I saw this thread & the numbers were sitting right there in the next Window. Technically speaking, I probably shouldn't have posted info that specific here but I was really just trying to make sure that if anyone had an advertising need in the Boston area, they should not discount the viability of either show. {And that they should utilize my agency to place that buy

}

FTR, I've got clients running on both shows for the past month

As for what info is publically available, various trade journals report a good bit of 12+ info, which is what Arbitron makes available to the media. Occasionally media outlets are granted permission to report more specific info, subject to Arbitron's approval.

CamEdwards · 05-01-2003, 06:58 PM

Jon, again you're not trying to measure the success of the station. You're measuring the success of two shows on at the same time. For that purpose, while 12+ won't show you the lion's share of n/t listeners, it's not all that misleading. It's not like Rush has a huge following 18-34.

I'm actually quite fond of 12+ numbers, since they now show my station as #1 in the market.

Of course the 35+ numbers show me with almost a 10 share and #2 in the mornings, so I like those too.

Ben E Lou · 05-01-2003, 07:01 PM

Looks like kcchief missed us after all.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 07:03 PM

Buzzbee -- Much to my surprise, Rush is actually winning the battle for men in Atlanta from 1p-3p. And O'Reilly, while 3rd amongst the talkers, is much closer in Clark's rearview mirror than I ever thought he'd be.

And the growth in 680's ratings in that timeslot since they added O'Reilly is just incredible, not quite unheard of perhaps but pretty remarkable nonetheless. Easily the best programming move (at least from a total listenership standpoint) they've ever made.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 07:24 PM

I get your point Cam, I'm just bitching about Drudge using a number that really doesn't represent anything that's being used for any real purpose except his own.

And then, to my surprise, I discover that he's also using some sort of data (likely advances) other than the actual "official" book.

Sticking with Boston as an example --
The actual 12+ (AQH) audience for Rush is 41,400
for Bill the correct number is 35,500

{Yep, the advantage to Rush is slightly greater than Drudge indicated but I still maintain that it's irrelevant}

And then to my real surprise, I run a couple of other reports and discover where the difference actually occurs -- and you & I were both waaaaaay off base about which demo cell accounts for it.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 07:25 PM

Can you tell dissecting the numbers down to their atomic level is the one part of my job I really enjoy

GrantDawg · 05-01-2003, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
And the growth in 680's ratings in that timeslot since they added O'Reilly is just incredible, not quite unheard of perhaps but pretty remarkable nonetheless. Easily the best programming move (at least from a total listenership standpoint) they've ever made.

You just turned my stomache.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 09:12 PM

Sorry 'bout GrantDawg, but it's hard to knock a move that increases your average audience by more than four times.

CamEdwards · 05-01-2003, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Can you tell dissecting the numbers down to their atomic level is the one part of my job I really enjoy

That's fine. So what was Drudge actually using? Arbitrends?

BTW, have you noticed that a vast majority of n/t stations didn't see a noticable jump in ratings this book. It appears as if the war talk didn't really kick in until the first missiles started flying.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2003, 09:27 PM

Cam -- that's been a very interesting development, not quite sure what to make of it.

Then again, I've noticed some rather quirky results in the Atlanta book this time, almost enough to make me wonder if this isn't going to be one of those books that eventually stands out as an anamoly in a 4-book avg. And sometimes at least it seems that when you see that in one market, you see similar things in a lot of them.

Not much to back that up with except a hunch, I haven't even looked at W'03 for most of my markets yet.

sterlingice · 05-01-2003, 10:17 PM

Both of these horses asses are on the same station in KC back-to-back. Fortunately we have an entire sports talk station (local shows and Jim Rome) and the Lawrence station broadcasts ESPN radio most of the day.

SI

05-01-2003, 02:17 PM	#5
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	the O'Reily radio show is pretty good (I like much better than the TV show), but it is on after my drive home. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

05-01-2003, 03:01 PM	#6
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Interesting, since O'Reilly just produced the best rating ever earned by one of the sports/talk stations in Atlanta. (Granted, that's damning with faint praise, but still) __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-01-2003, 03:11 PM	#7
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	I think the thing that I am most suprised about is that Limbaugh gets a 5.0 in Boston.. I did not know there was that many conservatives in the entire state... __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

05-01-2003, 03:28 PM	#10
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	You havent been in Boston lately have you? Was big culture shock for me compared to when I grew up in Atlanta __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

05-01-2003, 05:47 PM	#11
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Also, I just realized that the numbers quoted are for Persons 12+ That isn't the demo for either guy and isn't a demo anybody would buy either show to reach. The only numbers that'll matter for these two are M25-54 (or something more narrow) and possibly narrowed even further by an income qualifier or other qualitative component. I happen to have Boston's info handy, so I'll take a look at the 1p-3p segment where the two go head to head. 1p-2p M25-54 and $50k+ HHI O'Reilly on WTTK 7.2 share Rush on WRKO 4.1 share 2p-3p same demo O'Reilly 7.4 share Rush 3.6 share This doesn't prove or disprove the the success or failure of O'Reilly's show really, but I think it at least illustrates that looking at different demos produce very different results. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-01-2003, 02:12 PM	#2
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	Dola: If it is my thread, then the title legally has to be misspelled.

05-01-2003, 02:15 PM	#3
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	I'm glad to hear this too, cause I hate O'Reilly. [atlantastuff] But I prefer 790 to 680. [/atlantastuff]

05-01-2003, 05:47 PM	#12
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	edited to remove double post __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 05-01-2003 at 05:49 PM.

05-01-2003, 05:47 PM	#13
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	and removing a third inadvertant post __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 05-01-2003 at 05:54 PM.

05-01-2003, 05:55 PM	#17
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	jeez john, we get it. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

05-01-2003, 06:00 PM	#18
CamEdwards Stadium Announcer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burke, VA	I would also say this. Since Limbaugh's been on for a much longer period of time, chances are the dominant news/talk station in town carries him. If O'Reilly's on a competitior, chances are the competitor is the #2 or #3 game in town.. which makes it that much harder to compete. In fairness Jon, all the numbers posted were 12+ numbers, so it's not exactly comparing apples to oranges. I've listened to O'Reilly before (he's on an also-ran station here in town) and I wasn't impressed. It's not that he's bad, he's just nothing different. __________________ I don't want the world. I just want your half.

05-01-2003, 06:07 PM	#19
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	As much as I hate O'Reilly, it's a sad thing that Rush is still leading in ratings against anyone...

05-01-2003, 06:09 PM	#20
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Cam, I know it was apples to apples & all, but it's an irrelevant set of apples to apples. Using 12+ for N/T is like trying to measure the success/failure of a gangsta rap station by the number of middle-aged white guys it attracts. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-01-2003, 06:42 PM	#21
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	True, the 12+ number is not necessarily ideal (especially if you're 19th in the market like O'Reilly is in NY), but it's still pretty surprising the numbers are that low. Jon -- do you happen to have a copy of the Boston Arbitron numbers at your PC? Where did you get those numbers? Just curious because I haven't found a good resource for ratings on the 'net. I'd like to rip the tool that is Matt Drudge for the "revealing" these numbers. I guarantee you that these numbers have not been "hidden." In fact, in those markets where Limbaugh is crushing O'Reilly, I guarantee you that they have plastered those numbers all over town. Drudge reminds me of the Hollywood gossip columnist in The Onion. In fact, I would probably like Drudge if he were in The Onion -- that's where a lot of his stuff belongs.

05-01-2003, 06:52 PM	#23
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	kcchief -- They're on my PC because I (well, my company) paid nearly $20k a year to get them (and some others) from Arbitron. One of the hazards of owning an ad agency I guess. As luck would have it, I was working on a media plan for Boston when I saw this thread & the numbers were sitting right there in the next Window. Technically speaking, I probably shouldn't have posted info that specific here but I was really just trying to make sure that if anyone had an advertising need in the Boston area, they should not discount the viability of either show. {And that they should utilize my agency to place that buy } FTR, I've got clients running on both shows for the past month As for what info is publically available, various trade journals report a good bit of 12+ info, which is what Arbitron makes available to the media. Occasionally media outlets are granted permission to report more specific info, subject to Arbitron's approval. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-01-2003, 06:58 PM	#24
CamEdwards Stadium Announcer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burke, VA	Jon, again you're not trying to measure the success of the station. You're measuring the success of two shows on at the same time. For that purpose, while 12+ won't show you the lion's share of n/t listeners, it's not all that misleading. It's not like Rush has a huge following 18-34. I'm actually quite fond of 12+ numbers, since they now show my station as #1 in the market. Of course the 35+ numbers show me with almost a 10 share and #2 in the mornings, so I like those too. __________________ I don't want the world. I just want your half.

05-01-2003, 07:01 PM	#25
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Looks like kcchief missed us after all. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

05-01-2003, 07:03 PM	#26
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Buzzbee -- Much to my surprise, Rush is actually winning the battle for men in Atlanta from 1p-3p. And O'Reilly, while 3rd amongst the talkers, is much closer in Clark's rearview mirror than I ever thought he'd be. And the growth in 680's ratings in that timeslot since they added O'Reilly is just incredible, not quite unheard of perhaps but pretty remarkable nonetheless. Easily the best programming move (at least from a total listenership standpoint) they've ever made. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-01-2003, 07:24 PM	#27
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	I get your point Cam, I'm just bitching about Drudge using a number that really doesn't represent anything that's being used for any real purpose except his own. And then, to my surprise, I discover that he's also using some sort of data (likely advances) other than the actual "official" book. Sticking with Boston as an example -- The actual 12+ (AQH) audience for Rush is 41,400 for Bill the correct number is 35,500 {Yep, the advantage to Rush is slightly greater than Drudge indicated but I still maintain that it's irrelevant} And then to my real surprise, I run a couple of other reports and discover where the difference actually occurs -- and you & I were both waaaaaay off base about which demo cell accounts for it. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-01-2003, 07:25 PM	#28
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Can you tell dissecting the numbers down to their atomic level is the one part of my job I really enjoy __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-01-2003, 09:12 PM	#30
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Sorry 'bout GrantDawg, but it's hard to knock a move that increases your average audience by more than four times. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-01-2003, 09:27 PM	#32
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Cam -- that's been a very interesting development, not quite sure what to make of it. Then again, I've noticed some rather quirky results in the Atlanta book this time, almost enough to make me wonder if this isn't going to be one of those books that eventually stands out as an anamoly in a 4-book avg. And sometimes at least it seems that when you see that in one market, you see similar things in a lot of them. Not much to back that up with except a hunch, I haven't even looked at W'03 for most of my markets yet. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-01-2003, 10:17 PM	#33
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Both of these horses asses are on the same station in KC back-to-back. Fortunately we have an entire sports talk station (local shows and Jim Rome) and the Lawrence station broadcasts ESPN radio most of the day. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

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