Fantasy Trade...

CleBrownsfan · 09-18-2006, 12:22 PM

I need some advise. My team needs WR help and I have depth in RB's. My RB's are C.Williams, C.Taylor, S.Jackson, J.Jones, J.Addai. Would you trade:

C.Taylor, J.Witten, and J.Galloway

for

R.Wayne, K.Winslow, & J.Lewis

I really don't want to give up C.Taylor (I'd rather give up J.Jones or C.Williams) but I need WR as my #1 guy is freaken R.Moss!!

~thanks in advance for any input!

Mustang · 09-18-2006, 12:57 PM

I'd rather have Taylor over Lewis

Witten over Winslow

Wayne over Galloway.

So, in 2 of the 3 cases you are losing out so.. is Wayne over Galloway that much of an improvement to your team...

Who are your other receivers?

spleen1015 · 09-18-2006, 12:57 PM

Given the other RBs you have, I will make that trade. Other than Galloway, who are your WRs?

Noble_Platypus · 09-18-2006, 01:02 PM

I dont make that trade. Galloways #s wont be that much below Waynes to justify losing value on the other 2 positions

BigMak · 09-18-2006, 01:05 PM

I think I would look to move Cadillac for a receiver. I just don't think he can stay healthy for an entire season. And that offense has been awful so far.

CleBrownsfan · 09-18-2006, 01:33 PM

Other WR's are

M.Clayton
R.Moss
R Caldwell
K McCardell

I don't have to trade Witten for Winslow I just thought maybe over the course of the season Winslow may out better fantasy numbers up.

CleBrownsfan · 09-18-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMak

I think I would look to move Cadillac for a receiver. I just don't think he can stay healthy for an entire season. And that offense has been awful so far.

I do have a Cadillac for Driver trade out there. I hope that owner bites 'cause he is in need for a back...

rkmsuf · 09-18-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I do have a Cadillac for Driver trade out there. I hope that owner bites 'cause he is in need for a back...

that would be the better option. too bad williams didn't score this week.

Mustang · 09-18-2006, 02:30 PM

You need a WR...

if you could trade a back for a WR, I'd do it but, I wouldn't do the above trade though.

BigMak · 09-18-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I do have a Cadillac for Driver trade out there. I hope that owner bites 'cause he is in need for a back...

I like that deal. I came into this season very high on Driver. I have him in my money league. He is even more valuable in a point per reception league. Favre has to throw to someone.

Maple Leafs · 09-18-2006, 03:21 PM

Do you think you're ahead on the TE portion of the trade?

rowech · 09-18-2006, 03:42 PM

Go with the Cady deal....that 3 for 3 you're definitely losing out.

QuikSand · 09-18-2006, 03:46 PM

Come on, get a hold of yourself. We're two weeks into the season. There's no need to despair that you don't have enough at wide receiver. That's nonsense. Wide receivers grown on trees. Your group isn't great, but there's no reason to start with the panic quite yet.

Yes, you should probably make a trade to get an improvement at WR. No, you shouldn't go and trade a RB most teams drafted in round one to get a WR who was typically drafted in round five or six, maybe later. That's just ridiculous, no matter how much you might like Driver. The player values haven't completely flipped around in two modest weeks of experience we simply haven't learned all that much.

Calm down, and look for a spot to deal your RB depth and get real value.

rowech · 09-18-2006, 05:01 PM

I would agree with Quik. Those RBs you have should be gold in a couple of weeks if you can stick it out. If not, pick up Driver.

CleBrownsfan · 09-19-2006, 06:41 AM

Okay - what do you guys think about trading Galloway, Cadillac, and Whitten for Winslow and Reggie Wayne.

Tampa is playing Carolina and a bye week 4. Oakland is on a bye this week so I can't start R.Moss. SO if my team stayed intact this week my WR's would be: Caldwell, Reche, Clayton, Michael, Galloway, Joey and an injured McCardell, Keenan. This is why I feel I NEED to make a move for a WR 'cause I'm just sitting on 5 RB's and can only use 2 while my WR's desperately need help. OKAY - I just talked myself into making this trade.

sterlingice · 09-19-2006, 07:01 AM

I think you're badly overvaluing Winslow in both cases and that's where you're losing the trades. If you're going to trade a fantasy starting RB and starting WR to someone, get more than one good but not great WR back.

SI

CleBrownsfan · 09-19-2006, 07:05 AM

I don't think (IMO) Winslow or Whitten really will have that much fantasy vaule. They both will give you 4-6 points a week with the occasional 10.

QuikSand · 09-19-2006, 07:49 AM

Witten >> Winslow. Stop adding this freebie into your offers, period.

Witten had led his pretty good team in receptions the last two years, and now the team is (shockingly) without their ballhog receiver again for a while. There's no reason to suspect anything but a very solid season from Witten. Winslow is a total wildcard, has a confirmed history of disappearing for a whole season, and plays on a team that simply isn't going to do very well moving the ball this year, plus in the early going he hasn't even been on the field in many obvious passing situations. If things work out just right for Winslow, he might end up the year with about as much production as the median projection for Witten. The comparison between the two is a no-brainer.

Back to RB... look at your last offer... now you're thinking you want to trade Cadillac Williams for the incremental gain from Galloway to Wayne. You are out of your mind.

My best guess is that you didn't draft this team - it was auto-drafted, drafted by a friend, a product of some weird keeper system, or something like that. I just can't put 2 and 2 together -- it takes discipline and a "plan" to commit early picks to multiple running backs -- all in the name of gaining maximum total capital, rather than worrying too much about immediate balance with your initial roster. The easiest place to "add balance" later is at WR, where evryone will be at least okay, and have some depth. So, however, this team got drafted, it took some thinking to select a guy like Julius Jones in, say, round three ahead of some pretty good players at WR like, say, Reggie Wayne. I, personally, like this strategy, and think it often leads to a very good team in the long run.

However, your clear sense of panic to rush out and trade away a top RB while his stock is at its nadir, tells me that this was not your master plan, it must have been some sort of accident.

So, your choice from here is between two options: follow the plan that you have been handed, even if it's hard for you... or else panic and dump this team in exchange for whatever you can get, and make yourself happier about your week 3 lineup. It sounds like you are leaning heavily toward the latter option... but since you posted here asking for advice, there it is.

This partial lineup certainly has the potential to be a good team, but the way you get there is by taking advantage of a *seller's market* for quality starting running backs, not by hitting the panic button and selling off your spares there for whatever decent players you think you can get right this minute.

CleBrownsfan · 09-19-2006, 08:04 AM

From what I'm seeing from Tampa so far - Cadillac will not be one of my spears @ RB's. I did drft this team and while WR's were getting taken in the 2nd-4th rounds I decided to take RB's for depth at a key position. With the emergence of Chester Taylor (which I have) I feel trading Caddilac for a 2nd tier WR (which will score a lot more fantasy points IMO than Galloway). Quick - I do thank you for your input. You're right - this is the reason why I posted this thread. I just feel I'm in need of a WR and I'll take the chance that Williams won't be a solid #2 back.

QuikSand · 09-19-2006, 08:16 AM

Best of luck to you and your Browns.

flere-imsaho · 09-20-2006, 09:08 AM

Quik's advice is right on the money, but I'll add to it anyway.

Witten for Winslow is a bad trade. Until Winslow proves something, anything, I wouldn't trade anyone for him. In fact, in my opinion it's better to play waiver wire roulette with TEs each week, looking for exploitable matchups, than rely on Winslow. But you don't have to worry, as you have Witten, who's pretty solid, as Quik said.

I think, to a certain extent, you can play waiver wire roulette with your WRs as well, looking for exploitable matchups each week. I tend to do this for my 3rd/4th (and sometimes even 2nd) WRs each fantasy season, unless I luck into multiple consistent performers. In reality, all but maybe 5 WRs are a crapshoot week-to-week each year, and it's hard to be certain on draft day who the 5 are going to be.

What you need to do, with that stable of good-to-great RBs, is wait until some RBs around the league start to get hurt. When this happens (assuming they aren't your RBs), owners in your league are going to start getting desperate, and the stock of your RBs is going to go through the roof. At that point I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be able to do, for instance, a straight Cadillac-for-Wayne swap, or even something better.

ISiddiqui · 09-20-2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

What you need to do, with that stable of good-to-great RBs, is wait until some RBs around the league start to get hurt. When this happens (assuming they aren't your RBs), owners in your league are going to start getting desperate, and the stock of your RBs is going to go through the roof. At that point I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be able to do, for instance, a straight Cadillac-for-Wayne swap, or even something better.

And THAT is the winning answer (not that some of the others weren't good advice). In a few weeks some RBs will get injured. You have a huge stock of RBs and other owners will be crazy desperate if their #1 back goes down. You can ask for far more from your RBs then than you would be able to now.

Wait at least a few weeks.

BigMak · 09-20-2006, 03:04 PM

I disagree with the wait a few weeks until other running backs get injured opinion. I think head to head is too difficult to wait for something you hope is going to happen. The longer you wait, the further back your team can fall in the standings. In my experience you need every win you can get. In my 12 team money league last year, you needed 10 wins to make the playoffs. If your team is weak now, the longer you wait to make a deal, the tougher it will be to reach the playoffs.

CleBrownsfan · 09-20-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMak

I disagree with the wait a few weeks until other running backs get injured opinion. I think head to head is too difficult to wait for something you hope is going to happen. The longer you wait, the further back your team can fall in the standings. In my experience playing you need every win you can get. In my 12 team money league last year, you needed 10 wins to make the playoffs. If your team is weak now, the longer you wait to make a deal, the tougher it will be to reach the playoffs.

BINGO - with my WR's on my team I would probably already be 2-4 games out in the division with only 13 game played. That is the reason I needed to make a move for a WR - and Wayne is a pretty big improvment from what I had...

BigMak · 09-20-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

BINGO - with my WR's on my team I would probably already be 2-4 games out in the division with only 13 game played. That is the reason I needed to make a move for a WR - and Wayne is a pretty big improvment from what I had...

You should try a RB straight up for a WR. Once you start throwing in TE's or WR's it doesnt help as much

Logan · 09-20-2006, 06:32 PM

If you're going to trade Cadillac for Wayne, get back another RB too (one of the back-up/platoon types that will have more value as the season progresses). Someone you think could turn into starter material. Then later in the season, trade off Jones for another WR and slide the new RB into his bench spot.

stevew · 09-21-2006, 02:28 AM

If the Browns can ever seem to come up with the idea to put KW2 in on third downs, then I do think his fantasy value will increase. They look to be a pretty lousy team this year, and he probably has the 2nd best hands on that team. Still, I dunno if he's necessarily worth trading for if you have to give up a more consistent player like Witten.

Gah, i just can't believe i typed something nice about the fuckin' soldier.

miked · 09-23-2006, 02:54 PM

In my keeper league, I was just proposed Joe Horn and Phillip Rivers for Randy Moss (I have). My other QBs are Brady and Kitna. My other WRs are Donald Driver, Rod Smith, Keyshawn and Chris Henry. Sounds pretty good, right?

TroyF · 09-23-2006, 03:07 PM

I don't understand this at all.

You are selling Williams and Witten at essentially is what will be their lowest points of the year. Neither will ever have worse value than what they have now.

In turn, you are upgrading from Galloway to Reggie Wayne. You did see what Galloway did last week, right? Wayne has 10 catches and 202 yards through two games. Bigtime WR, no doubt. But Galloway had 9 for 161 last week. Now, without looking, you tell me who had the better season last year, Wayne or Galloway.

You are trading a top level RB who has had two off weeks, and a solid fantasy TE and a solid WR for an upgrae that isn't even real.

Think about that for a second.

09-18-2006, 01:02 PM	#4
Noble_Platypus College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: York, Pa	I dont make that trade. Galloways #s wont be that much below Waynes to justify losing value on the other 2 positions __________________ We had the $240, we had to have the puddin'

09-18-2006, 01:33 PM	#6
CleBrownsfan Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: C-Town	Other WR's are M.Clayton R.Moss R Caldwell K McCardell I don't have to trade Witten for Winslow I just thought maybe over the course of the season Winslow may out better fantasy numbers up. __________________ *XBox Gamertag:* Pronk32 FOOL-X - Cleveland Naps FOOL - Cleveland Cyclones SLOP - Cuyahoga Spiders

09-18-2006, 02:30 PM	#9
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	You need a WR... if you could trade a back for a WR, I'd do it but, I wouldn't do the above trade though. __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

09-18-2006, 03:21 PM	#11
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	Do you think you're ahead on the TE portion of the trade? __________________ Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis

09-19-2006, 06:41 AM	#15
CleBrownsfan Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: C-Town	Okay - what do you guys think about trading Galloway, Cadillac, and Whitten for Winslow and Reggie Wayne. Tampa is playing Carolina and a bye week 4. Oakland is on a bye this week so I can't start R.Moss. SO if my team stayed intact this week my WR's would be: Caldwell, Reche, Clayton, Michael, Galloway, Joey and an injured McCardell, Keenan. This is why I feel I NEED to make a move for a WR 'cause I'm just sitting on 5 RB's and can only use 2 while my WR's desperately need help. OKAY - I just talked myself into making this trade. __________________ *XBox Gamertag:* Pronk32 FOOL-X - Cleveland Naps FOOL - Cleveland Cyclones SLOP - Cuyahoga Spiders

09-18-2006, 12:57 PM	#2
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	I'd rather have Taylor over Lewis Witten over Winslow Wayne over Galloway. So, in 2 of the 3 cases you are losing out so.. is Wayne over Galloway that much of an improvement to your team... Who are your other receivers? __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

09-18-2006, 12:57 PM	#3
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Given the other RBs you have, I will make that trade. Other than Galloway, who are your WRs?

09-18-2006, 01:05 PM	#5
BigMak n00b Join Date: Dec 2004	I think I would look to move Cadillac for a receiver. I just don't think he can stay healthy for an entire season. And that offense has been awful so far.

09-18-2006, 03:42 PM	#12
rowech Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2006	Go with the Cady deal....that 3 for 3 you're definitely losing out.

09-18-2006, 03:46 PM	#13
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Come on, get a hold of yourself. We're two weeks into the season. There's no need to despair that you don't have enough at wide receiver. That's nonsense. Wide receivers grown on trees. Your group isn't great, but there's no reason to start with the panic quite yet. Yes, you should probably make a trade to get an improvement at WR. No, you shouldn't go and trade a RB most teams drafted in round one to get a WR who was typically drafted in round five or six, maybe later. That's just ridiculous, no matter how much you might like Driver. The player values haven't completely flipped around in two modest weeks of experience we simply haven't learned all that much. Calm down, and look for a spot to deal your RB depth and get real value.

09-18-2006, 05:01 PM	#14
rowech Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2006	I would agree with Quik. Those RBs you have should be gold in a couple of weeks if you can stick it out. If not, pick up Driver.

09-19-2006, 07:01 AM	#16
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	I think you're badly overvaluing Winslow in both cases and that's where you're losing the trades. If you're going to trade a fantasy starting RB and starting WR to someone, get more than one good but not great WR back. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

09-19-2006, 07:05 AM	#17
CleBrownsfan Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: C-Town	I don't think (IMO) Winslow or Whitten really will have that much fantasy vaule. They both will give you 4-6 points a week with the occasional 10. __________________ *XBox Gamertag:* Pronk32 FOOL-X - Cleveland Naps FOOL - Cleveland Cyclones SLOP - Cuyahoga Spiders

09-19-2006, 07:49 AM	#18
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Witten >> Winslow. Stop adding this freebie into your offers, period. Witten had led his pretty good team in receptions the last two years, and now the team is (shockingly) without their ballhog receiver again for a while. There's no reason to suspect anything but a very solid season from Witten. Winslow is a total wildcard, has a confirmed history of disappearing for a whole season, and plays on a team that simply isn't going to do very well moving the ball this year, plus in the early going he hasn't even been on the field in many obvious passing situations. If things work out just right for Winslow, he might end up the year with about as much production as the median projection for Witten. The comparison between the two is a no-brainer. Back to RB... look at your last offer... now you're thinking you want to trade Cadillac Williams for the incremental gain from Galloway to Wayne. You are out of your mind. My best guess is that you didn't draft this team - it was auto-drafted, drafted by a friend, a product of some weird keeper system, or something like that. I just can't put 2 and 2 together -- it takes discipline and a "plan" to commit early picks to multiple running backs -- all in the name of gaining maximum total capital, rather than worrying too much about immediate balance with your initial roster. The easiest place to "add balance" later is at WR, where evryone will be at least okay, and have some depth. So, however, this team got drafted, it took some thinking to select a guy like Julius Jones in, say, round three ahead of some pretty good players at WR like, say, Reggie Wayne. I, personally, like this strategy, and think it often leads to a very good team in the long run. However, your clear sense of panic to rush out and trade away a top RB while his stock is at its nadir, tells me that this was not your master plan, it must have been some sort of accident. So, your choice from here is between two options: follow the plan that you have been handed, even if it's hard for you... or else panic and dump this team in exchange for whatever you can get, and make yourself happier about your week 3 lineup. It sounds like you are leaning heavily toward the latter option... but since you posted here asking for advice, there it is. This partial lineup certainly has the potential to be a good team, but the way you get there is by taking advantage of a seller's market for quality starting running backs, not by hitting the panic button and selling off your spares there for whatever decent players you think you can get right this minute.

09-19-2006, 08:04 AM	#19
CleBrownsfan Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: C-Town	From what I'm seeing from Tampa so far - Cadillac will not be one of my spears @ RB's. I did drft this team and while WR's were getting taken in the 2nd-4th rounds I decided to take RB's for depth at a key position. With the emergence of Chester Taylor (which I have) I feel trading Caddilac for a 2nd tier WR (which will score a lot more fantasy points IMO than Galloway). Quick - I do thank you for your input. You're right - this is the reason why I posted this thread. I just feel I'm in need of a WR and I'll take the chance that Williams won't be a solid #2 back. __________________ *XBox Gamertag:* Pronk32 FOOL-X - Cleveland Naps FOOL - Cleveland Cyclones SLOP - Cuyahoga Spiders

09-19-2006, 08:16 AM	#20
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Best of luck to you and your Browns.

09-20-2006, 09:08 AM	#21
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	Quik's advice is right on the money, but I'll add to it anyway. Witten for Winslow is a bad trade. Until Winslow proves something, anything, I wouldn't trade anyone for him. In fact, in my opinion it's better to play waiver wire roulette with TEs each week, looking for exploitable matchups, than rely on Winslow. But you don't have to worry, as you have Witten, who's pretty solid, as Quik said. I think, to a certain extent, you can play waiver wire roulette with your WRs as well, looking for exploitable matchups each week. I tend to do this for my 3rd/4th (and sometimes even 2nd) WRs each fantasy season, unless I luck into multiple consistent performers. In reality, all but maybe 5 WRs are a crapshoot week-to-week each year, and it's hard to be certain on draft day who the 5 are going to be. What you need to do, with that stable of good-to-great RBs, is wait until some RBs around the league start to get hurt. When this happens (assuming they aren't your RBs), owners in your league are going to start getting desperate, and the stock of your RBs is going to go through the roof. At that point I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be able to do, for instance, a straight Cadillac-for-Wayne swap, or even something better.

09-20-2006, 03:04 PM	#23
BigMak n00b Join Date: Dec 2004	I disagree with the wait a few weeks until other running backs get injured opinion. I think head to head is too difficult to wait for something you hope is going to happen. The longer you wait, the further back your team can fall in the standings. In my experience you need every win you can get. In my 12 team money league last year, you needed 10 wins to make the playoffs. If your team is weak now, the longer you wait to make a deal, the tougher it will be to reach the playoffs. Last edited by BigMak : 09-20-2006 at 07:29 PM.

09-20-2006, 06:32 PM	#26
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	If you're going to trade Cadillac for Wayne, get back another RB too (one of the back-up/platoon types that will have more value as the season progresses). Someone you think could turn into starter material. Then later in the season, trade off Jones for another WR and slide the new RB into his bench spot.

09-21-2006, 02:28 AM	#27
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	If the Browns can ever seem to come up with the idea to put KW2 in on third downs, then I do think his fantasy value will increase. They look to be a pretty lousy team this year, and he probably has the 2nd best hands on that team. Still, I dunno if he's necessarily worth trading for if you have to give up a more consistent player like Witten. Gah, i just can't believe i typed something nice about the fuckin' soldier.

09-23-2006, 02:54 PM	#28
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	In my keeper league, I was just proposed Joe Horn and Phillip Rivers for Randy Moss (I have). My other QBs are Brady and Kitna. My other WRs are Donald Driver, Rod Smith, Keyshawn and Chris Henry. Sounds pretty good, right?

09-23-2006, 03:07 PM	#29
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I don't understand this at all. You are selling Williams and Witten at essentially is what will be their lowest points of the year. Neither will ever have worse value than what they have now. In turn, you are upgrading from Galloway to Reggie Wayne. You did see what Galloway did last week, right? Wayne has 10 catches and 202 yards through two games. Bigtime WR, no doubt. But Galloway had 9 for 161 last week. Now, without looking, you tell me who had the better season last year, Wayne or Galloway. You are trading a top level RB who has had two off weeks, and a solid fantasy TE and a solid WR for an upgrae that isn't even real. Think about that for a second.

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