Front Office Football 2007

[Subby]

I completely agree with Cuervo - I don't care about the zodiac stuff - it's just a proxy. I like having it in the game and I like having it matter. Down the road would I like to see it evolve? Sure. I think this is a good start point, however.

[Ben E Lou]

What Subby said about what Cuervo said about what Jim said.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by dbd1963

This is exactly where I am. The demo doesn't seem as different to me because I've always just played as the GM. Maybe the full game -- check that, the stats ensure that the full game will make me happier. I would like to gameplan and call plays, but my short forays into it have proven that I totally sucked at it. And the one thing you can't get is a primer on how it should be done, because MP folks don't want to give away secrets.

I guess I may not be smart enough for this game.

fwiw, I think you can find a fair amount of discussion around this board (old discussion) about a fair amount of gameplanning stuff.. general stuff, but still..

and the playcalling has nothing to do with MP .

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

What Subby said about what Cuervo said about what Jim said.

Yes.

What Jim lays out as a potential way to handle it in the future sounds good, but I have no heartburn over that beinga future development and using this for now.

[wheels]

Wow, Jim.

An impressive and innovative version. Nice additions all the way around and definitely worth the upgrade.

I'm glad to see you kept the log and box graphics in this version. If you'd like more "whiz bang," I'd be happy to do a log with animated flames or a box that opens and closes.

But don't tell Farrah where you got them; she'd kick my a**!

Congratulations.

[wheels]

Originally Posted by Karim

Is Wheels still around? He made some awesome graphics for FOF2004...

I think the scoreboard graphics should still work.

As for new graphics, I'd be a little afraid to do any. Arlie is a good six inches taller than I, and Farrah . . .

It might constitute a little conflict of interest.

[cuervo72]

Well, I might be redoing the number/experience/position/ratings graphics. They are just not sitting right with me.

[sachmo71]

Shorty did some pretty nice backgrounds, I believe.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Well damn was I wrong. Who will be the first MP league to transistion? We are mid-season so that is not a good point to do it either. Any Leagues about to end the post season?

My office league (5 humans) is just hitting the draft. Given our sim speed, we'll be through this season in about 2 weeks, or right around the ETA for the converter. We'd have no problem being guinea pig #1 to test this thing out. I've got backups out the wazoo and can easily roll back.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Well, I might be redoing the number/experience/position/ratings graphics. They are just not sitting right with me.

This would be much appreciated. Jim does a great job in creating a solid game under the hood, but aesthetics is not a strength of his designs.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by wade moore

ditto.

I could personally be responsible for people like Dutch and ae not being very happy, but I can't really talk about what I mean here..

I've got a laundry list a mile long about what I hate about the military. Another one about the gov'ment. If you let me pick and chose what you are responsible for, this won't end well.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I've got a laundry list a mile long about what I hate about the military. Another one about the gov'ment. If you let me pick and chose what you are responsible for, this won't end well.

I'm speaking towards the Navy, but disaster averted so no need to injure me!

[KevinNU7]

I started posting on this board because I found it through hattrick. I have never played FOF before.

I am running through the demo and had a question about salary negociations.

First, I love the setup where you can put different values in each year. If I low ball the offer I get messages telling me they aren't happy and that this isn't close to want they want. Is there a screen where I can see their expectations or a screen for counter offers. I feel like that would be a no brianer for the game.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

I started posting on this board because I found it through hattrick. I have never played FOF before.

I am running through the demo and had a question about salary negociations.

First, I love the setup where you can put different values in each year. If I low ball the offer I get messages telling me they aren't happy and that this isn't close to want they want. Is there a screen where I can see their expectations or a screen for counter offers. I feel like that would be a no brianer for the game.

When you bring up negotations, there should be numbers filled in already, right? That is what their expecations are.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

I started posting on this board because I found it through hattrick. I have never played FOF before.

I am running through the demo and had a question about salary negociations.

First, I love the setup where you can put different values in each year. If I low ball the offer I get messages telling me they aren't happy and that this isn't close to want they want. Is there a screen where I can see their expectations or a screen for counter offers. I feel like that would be a no brianer for the game.

It is for this game, but the lack of them in OOTP (not sure about the most recent version) drove me freaking nuts. Especially when the guy would stop negotiating on a "3 strikes and your out" basis if he didn't like the offer I came up with out of thin air.

Thankfully, this game gives you a clue based on what shows up in the box when you first start to negotiate. What you can get them to accept is another thing, depending on your creativity with the offer, other teams' offers, the player's desire to play for a winner (or not), etc.

[KevinNU7]

Ok, that can't be right.

I'm using the Pats and Asante Samuel is in his last year and is making $800,000 with $80,000 signing bonus.

He wants a 1 year deal (i.e. no extension) at $900,000 with a $3,000,000+ bonus.

Is that a bug then?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

Ok, that can't be right.

I'm using the Pats and Asante Samuel is in his last year and is making $800,000 with $80,000 signing bonus.

He wants a 1 year deal (i.e. no extension) at $900,000 with a $3,000,000+ bonus.

Is that a bug then?

Depends on how tight he is with Deion Branch

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm speaking towards the Navy, but disaster averted so no need to injure me!

The Navy? Shit, I can only scratch off like 7 things from my list.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

Ok, that can't be right.

I'm using the Pats and Asante Samuel is in his last year and is making $800,000 with $80,000 signing bonus.

He wants a 1 year deal (i.e. no extension) at $900,000 with a $3,000,000+ bonus.

Is that a bug then?

Some weird things like that happen now and then. I don't know if I'd call it a bug or not... but, it's definately a deal you don't want to take.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

My office league (5 humans) is just hitting the draft. Given our sim speed, we'll be through this season in about 2 weeks, or right around the ETA for the converter. We'd have no problem being guinea pig #1 to test this thing out. I've got backups out the wazoo and can easily roll back.

You have an office league? That's awesome. I can't tell anybody about FOF without them looking at me like I have 3 heads.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Well, I might be redoing the number/experience/position/ratings graphics. They are just not sitting right with me.

Yes, those are so completely ugly that they jump off the screen and slap you till it hurts.

But the rest of the interface seems much cleaner. And much more information can definately been viewed from 2k4.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by wheels

I think the scoreboard graphics should still work.

As for new graphics, I'd be a little afraid to do any. Arlie is a good six inches taller than I, and Farrah . . .

It might constitute a little conflict of interest.

Remember kids, you can get Greydog's contributions to Front Office Football here.

http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/...scoreboard.zip

The instructions may be off for FOF2k7 and I have no idea if the reshacker still works correctly. We'll have to test that, I suppose.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

Ok, that can't be right.

I'm using the Pats and Asante Samuel is in his last year and is making $800,000 with $80,000 signing bonus.

He wants a 1 year deal (i.e. no extension) at $900,000 with a $3,000,000+ bonus.

Is that a bug then?

That's not all that unusual. That's what makes the game so much fun, is trying to deal with those types of expectations. Wait until it's a guy you drafted and have an attachment to and he's now 8 years in the league and wants a bigger contract than you can afford or he's worth. It's part of the challenge of the game.

I don't really know what goes into the contract expectations of the players - whether anything is quite as sophisticated as what we can dream up - but there are a number of ways to rationalize it: the guy thinks he's worth more than you've paid him; if he's a backup, he's decided he wants to be a starter and get paid like one; he simply no longer wants to play for your team, etc. If he's worth keeping around, you can try a multi-year deal and screw around with the level of salary for each year to see if you can come up with something he'll accept and you can afford. If not, you'll just have to look for his replacement.

Shit. Now I'm really excited for this game to come out!

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but I have a question. One of the things I gathered about MP (which, again, I never tried) is that anyone could be unethical and look at other teams' gameplans by entering commissioner mode or something. Is that right? If so, has this been remedied for FOF2007, or are the owners still expected to be on the honor system?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but I have a question. One of the things I gathered about MP (which, again, I never tried) is that anyone could be unethical and look at other teams' gameplans by entering commissioner mode or something. Is that right? If so, has this been remedied for FOF2007, or are the owners still expected to be on the honor system?

Password protection, baby!

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Password protection, baby!

One of the most important additions, IMHO.

[Leonidas]

I really, really, really like having the depth chart function on the team roster page. Very nice indeed.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

I really, really, really like having the depth chart function on the team roster page. Very nice indeed.

"

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

I really, really, really like having the depth chart function on the team roster page. Very nice indeed.

This is huge, and having starter playing time as a separate screen also really adds a lot. I'm glad to get rid of the 1-10 rating system for that too.

[MIJB#19]

Summer League. Each season, you may send one of your young players to Europe to participate in the summer league. While those games aren't played in Front Office Football, players will gain experience and you will learn more about their abilities.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

What Jim didn't mention is that the players are actually visiting MIJB for the summer. Hope you've got room.

[cuervo72]

Hmm, the new buttons and having to determine which team a player is on (rather than just showing the cards in the selected color scheme) is really adding to the player card redraw time it seems.

[Deattribution]

I agree with those that said the improved FA AI should be listed in the features list, also also assuming the draft AI is better, that should be listed as well.

If you never read this forum to get a confirmation, or you just missed the post and only played the demo, you'd have absolutely no indication that there were any changes those parts of the game and that could potentially scare people away (it was my first concern).

[molson]

Everything looks fantastic to me. I'm anxious to see the AI team improvements. Hopefully expansion/customization will be the cornerstone of the next version, but I'm very satisfied with the additions that have been made.

I've never had a problem leaving chemistry on, but ignoring the zodiac signs, so I don't know about any conflicts/affinities until guys are actually on the same team. Then, if it's a toss up for a backup position, I might go with the guy that has the better relationship with the team leader. An option to hide the zodiac signs, while keeping chemistry, might be patch-worthy down the road.

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Hmm, the new buttons and having to determine which team a player is on (rather than just showing the cards in the selected color scheme) is really adding to the player card redraw time it seems.

Agreed. I tried it on two machines and it was equally slow on both. Besides, I think it is a bad idea because the color schemes aren't the greatest.

[cuervo72]

Well, that's not a dealbreaker, just an observation. Oddly, as graphically inclined as I seem to be, I didn't mind the good old rectangular buttons. I do like the idea of the color changes.

[Franklinnoble]

I don't see any mention of custom league sizes or expansion features.

This is disappointing. This feature can't be that hard to implement (all the major baseball sims do it, and even one-man programming shops pull it off).

So, basically, this is a big deal for MP enthusiasts, with a little extra statistical fluff thrown in for SP guys. Sorry, but I expected more. I don't think I'll be in a big hurry to buy this one.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

I agree with those that said the improved FA AI should be listed in the features list, also also assuming the draft AI is better, that should be listed as well.

If you never read this forum to get a confirmation, or you just missed the post and only played the demo, you'd have absolutely no indication that there were any changes those parts of the game and that could potentially scare people away (it was my first concern).

Hopefully Jim will comment on thsi soon. Or we will have to wait later and see what others here say about it.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Either you are crap in the sack, or get a hell of a lot more out of a computer game than I do

I walked right into that one.

As far as the game, if the AI is good, I will be a buying the game. Will the draft have trading?

[MizzouRah]

The draft AI and teams keeping their better players is DEFINITLY on my, "has it improved?" list.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Hopefully Jim will comment on thsi soon. Or we will have to wait later and see what others here say about it.

I know I'm looking forward to your take on the AI.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I don't see any mention of custom league sizes or expansion features.

This is disappointing. This feature can't be that hard to implement (all the major baseball sims do it, and even one-man programming shops pull it off).

So, basically, this is a big deal for MP enthusiasts, with a little extra statistical fluff thrown in for SP guys. Sorry, but I expected more. I don't think I'll be in a big hurry to buy this one.

I think the problem might be scheduling.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

So, basically, this is a big deal for MP enthusiasts, with a little extra statistical fluff thrown in for SP guys. Sorry, but I expected more. I don't think I'll be in a big hurry to buy this one.

Ignoring the conversations that have gone on earlier in the thread about this very point, why do you say this is more beneficial to MP players rather than SP players?

I'm intentionally ingnoring one very obvious fact about your online persona in the hopes of learning something here, so please don't take this as an attack. I just need to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Hmm, the new buttons and having to determine which team a player is on (rather than just showing the cards in the selected color scheme) is really adding to the player card redraw time it seems.

While I have already uninstalled the demo, perhaps changing every team to use the same button will improve the redraw time. Unless the program will still reload the button into memory each time. If thats the case, then a checkbox option to disable the new buttons will be a nice patch feature.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I think the problem might be scheduling.

Like I said, it seems like all the baseball sims manage this. PureSim lets you modify the league size, season length, and include expansion, and it schedules the seasons just fine. And Sullivan is a one-man show. So, it can be done.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Ignoring the conversations that have gone on earlier in the thread about this very point, why do you say this is more beneficial to MP players rather than SP players?

I'm intentionally ingnoring one very obvious fact about your online persona in the hopes of learning something here, so please don't take this as an attack. I just need to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

I think the encryption feature was practically essential for MP leagues, especially given the fact that there seems to be a new MP cheating scandal popping up every three months or so around here. And the Solevision feature seems to be targeted more towards the MP crowd who wants that sort of immersion. Maybe I'm just lumped into the "fast-sim" category, I dunno... but that feature doesn't do anything for me. I wouldn't use it.

I don't get what you're trying to say about my "online persona."

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Like I said, it seems like all the baseball sims manage this. PureSim lets you modify the league size, season length, and include expansion, and it schedules the seasons just fine. And Sullivan is a one-man show. So, it can be done.

Baseball sims are obviously a different beast though, plus it's not really known whether because Jim's style is more 'static' in scheduling it's more accurate that way also.

I'd say it has something to do with that, and the actual value of effort put into custom leagues vs how much they are used. I've only used that part of the game in other games just to add teams, never to make a smaller 'custom' league.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I don't see any mention of custom league sizes or expansion features.

This is disappointing. This feature can't be that hard to implement (all the major baseball sims do it, and even one-man programming shops pull it off).

So, basically, this is a big deal for MP enthusiasts, with a little extra statistical fluff thrown in for SP guys. Sorry, but I expected more. I don't think I'll be in a big hurry to buy this one.

Every architecture has its strengths and weaknesses. The way I designed FOF, I could either do a new version of the game that had custom league sizes, or I could do a version that had 100 other new features. If I had started with that feature in mind, it wouldn't be so major. But that's just the way it is. Football works well with 32 teams.

FOF 2007 represents more hours of work than any previous new version of the game. Some of the features benefit MP, some SP. Please don't confuse my not implementing your preferred list of features with not putting a lot of new things into the game. It's rather discouraging to see people complaining that the game is "FOF 2004.5" just because a feature they wanted wasn't included.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I don't see any mention of custom league sizes or expansion features.

This is disappointing. This feature can't be that hard to implement (all the major baseball sims do it, and even one-man programming shops pull it off).

So, basically, this is a big deal for MP enthusiasts, with a little extra statistical fluff thrown in for SP guys. Sorry, but I expected more. I don't think I'll be in a big hurry to buy this one.

I think this also hurts the historical replay side of this. If you look back to 1960 there were 22 teams in the league. That means that 10 teams will have 53 players that need to be generated. It also hurts the draft because you have less talent to go around so a guy that you would normally pick in the 4th round you need to take in the 3rd, a guy who you would pick in the middle of the second round goes mid to late first. It's unfortunate, but on the plus side, I don't think it kills the historical side.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Hopefully Jim will comment on thsi soon. Or we will have to wait later and see what others here say about it.

I'm usually somewhat a jbmagic defender... but good god, read the frickin' thread...

post #203 in this thread..

Originally Posted by Solecismic

It's better in that aspect. I have noticed a problem with the cap exception in that some teams will, if they have an injury, do a sign-release of the same player in one week, usually late in the season.

I haven't eliminated that problem completely yet, so far it's a trade off - get teams operating closer to the cap, run into cap exception issues like that. There's a note in the help file (been there since FOF1, I think), about how the cap isn't always a hard cap during the season just so teams can always field a full lineup. You get assigned minimum salary rookies.

I just have to get two very large and complicated mechanisms (getting teams to field a roster that won't crash the game, which is priority 1 and takes precedence over other algorithms, and getting teams to release players when they are over the cap in season and can release a player, which is a lower priority function) to synch up properly. The new, more flexible, position assignment rules created more difficulty in the synching up of these two functions, which actually take up more than a thousand lines of code.