AI Trade

[rkmsuf]

True or False:

Andre Miller got porked by this trade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2702501

[Izulde]

See you in the Drunk Guy thread later tonight. I really wanted him to go to Boston.

[Butter]

what better, AI trade or AI in OOTP?

[Subby]

Nice - wonder if there will be enough touches 14 games from now for him and Slappy McBackpeddler...

[bbor]

Not enough balls on the court to satisfy AI and Melo.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by bbor

Not enough balls on the court to satisfy AI and Melo.

lol

melo might have to slap a beotch


actually once AI's posse arrives, melo will be very happy with 10 shots a game.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by bbor

Not enough balls on the court to satisfy AI and Melo.

Yeah, if there was a starting lineup of 6 or 7 players, then maybe there'd be enough balls.

[TroyF]

Knew this deal was going down for days, just not the exact time. Nuggets really didn't want to give up Dre in the trade, but couldn't find a third trade partner for Nene or Evans and relented.

We run one the the fastest paced offenses in the NBA. (ok THE fastest paced offense by pace factor) There will be plenty of shots to go around. Now will we be able to defend anyone? No freakin clue there.

[RedKingGold]

Blah. As a 76er fan I was hoping they'd get more, although they did destroy their trade value by making him available.

But, looking closer at the deal, getting (most likely) four out of the first 35 picks in a very talented draft sets the team up very nicely for the future.

I'm hoping now that they'll move Miller and get another expiring contract or two.

[highfiveoh]

So where does Garnett go in February?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Blah. As a 76er fan I was hoping they'd get more, although they did destroy their trade value by making him available.

But, looking closer at the deal, getting (most likely) four out of the first 35 picks in a very talented draft sets the team up very nicely for the future.

I'm hoping now that they'll move Miller and get another expiring contract or two.

I really hope Miller moves back to Cleveland as part of the fallout from this.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

I really hope Miller moves back to Cleveland as part of the fallout from this.

That would be a dream come true.

As for this trade, I guess AI's value wasn't as high as I thought it was... Andre Miller is one of my favourite players, but I assumed that the Sixers would get a talented youth out of it like Foye. Those two first rounders probably won't be too high up, either.

Man, I'll definately be watching me some Nuggets games though.

[GoldenEagle]

AI brings the Nuggets some much needed street cred.

[bulletsponge]

great trade for philly. now they are front runners in the Odom sweepstakes and get 2 first rounders to boot.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

AI brings the Nuggets some much needed street cred.

Denver will end up as one of the most hated teams in the league, if not the most hated. AI, Melo, JR, Evans (aka: Nutcracker) and next year Kenyon Martin.

While I wish that weren't the case, it's better than being the laughing stock we were for the previous 15 years. Whatever happens from here on out, it's gonna be exciting.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

great trade for philly. now they are front runners in the Odom sweepstakes and get 2 first rounders to boot.

Do you mean ODEN?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Do you mean ODEN?

Nope, Lamar. Dre gives them the PG the Lakers desperatly need and Philly can package him in a deal for Lamar.

[TroyF]

ok, just joking.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Denver will end up as one of the most hated teams in the league, if not the most hated. AI, Melo, JR, Evans (aka: Nutcracker) and next year Kenyon Martin.

While I wish that weren't the case, it's better than being the laughing stock we were for the previous 15 years. Whatever happens from here on out, it's gonna be exciting.

Melo is hated now too?

Nuggets should be able to play some Suns-esque ball - when Melo is back at least. Put Boykins-AI-Melo-whoever-Camby in the game and you can run all day long.

[Brian Swartz]

Except that 1) They won't be nearly as good at it as Phoenix and 2) They'll be even less capable than the Suns of stopping a decent college team.

[DaddyTorgo]

it's almost as amusing as if he'd been traded to the Lakers. Are we going to see AI and Melo throwing fists at half-court to decide who gets to hoist up 30 balls a night? Is anyone else on that team going to see > 5 shots a night?

[Groundhog]

I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt. Both player's scoring will take a bit of a hit, but it's not like they have a lot of shooters outside of these two - except maybe Boykins. Camby doesn't need a lot of shots, but is good enough that he can score if required.

Defensively they won't be great, but they really shouldn't be a lot worse than the Suns in that department, as Camby is probably better than any Sun in that department bar Kurt Thomas. It's not like Iverson or Melo are considered particularily weak defenders. It's not their strong suit, sure, but there are plenty worse.

It's way too early to tell which way this one will fall, but if I was a Nuggs fan I'd be excited, anyway.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Except that 1) They won't be nearly as good at it as Phoenix and 2) They'll be even less capable than the Suns of stopping a decent college team.

That's a bit false. While Denver as a whole isn't a great defensive team, their pace factor distortes some of it. This year Denver is 16th in the league in defensive efficiency. Middle of the road, not at the point of not being able to contain a college team.

Denver also has individual parts that are fine on defense. Carmelo Anthony, in pure man to man is fine. (his opponent PER is around 18, which is acceptable) His help defense is about the worst in the league. Yakouba Diawara is a terrific young defender (ask Arenas, who last night went 10-28 with no FT attempts with Yak on him) and Camby is among the very best help defenders in basketball.

Keep in mind that right NOW, before AI, Denver is nearly as good at it as Phoenix on the offensive end. They are 5th in the league in offensive efficiency. If (and my God is it a big if) AI and Melo can coexist, that only figures to improve.

If everything bombs, Denver is a playoff team that gets bounced in round one again. But if it comes together and the two pissed off superstars play together and do it well, it could be an interesting playoff run.

My gut feeling tells me that at least for this year, it's gonna work and work well. You have two pissed off superstars with a chip on their shoulder who will play highly motivated basketball. I'll take my chances with that anyday of the week.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Melo is hated now too?

Nuggets should be able to play some Suns-esque ball - when Melo is back at least. Put Boykins-AI-Melo-whoever-Camby in the game and you can run all day long.

Melo has been hated by a lot of people for a long time. His immaturity gets him and the media has never seen a negative story they haven't liked. (The Olympics for example) The punch and run (which was really a slap and "OH CRAP, WHAT DID I DO") hurts his rep even more. A lot of people hate his guts.

The Nuggets are going to be thought of as a team full of thugs and hated by a lot of people. They are also going to be exciting as all get out and watched by many people. It'll be an interesting mix for sure.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Knew this deal was going down for days, just not the exact time. Nuggets really didn't want to give up Dre in the trade, but couldn't find a third trade partner for Nene or Evans and relented.

We run one the the fastest paced offenses in the NBA. (ok THE fastest paced offense by pace factor) There will be plenty of shots to go around. Now will we be able to defend anyone? No freakin clue there.

See Phoenix

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Defensively they won't be great, but they really shouldn't be a lot worse than the Suns in that department

Here's some numbers on Suns v. Nuggets right now:

Point differential:
Suns: +6.4 (#2)
Nuggets: +3.4 (#7)

FG %:
Suns: 49.17 (#1)
Nuggets: 47.17 (#7)

FG% allowed:
Suns: 45.5 (#15)
Nuggets: 46.2 (#21)

3P%:
Suns: 39% (#2)
Nuggets: 31% (#24)

3P% allowed:
Suns: 31% (#1)
Nuggets: 34% (#12)

as Camby is probably better than any Sun in that department bar Kurt Thomas. It's not like Iverson or Melo are considered particularily weak defenders. It's not their strong suit, sure, but there are plenty worse.

Raja Bell and Shawn Marion are better defenders than anyone on Denver's roster.

It's way too early to tell which way this one will fall, but if I was a Nuggs fan I'd be excited, anyway.

I agree, but Denver has a ways to go to match Phoenix's offensive efficiency. The Suns are also an "average to above average" defensive team if you look at pace independent stats.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The punch and run (which was really a slap and "OH CRAP, WHAT DID I DO")

I really doubt that's what Carmela was thinking. That was 100% bitch right there.

[Brian Swartz]

OMG ... I agree with Arles on something .

Another fact is that Phoenix's numbers on both ends are on the rise thanks to an apparently now-healthy Amare Stoudemire, a man among men by any measure. I'm writing this as a Spurs fan who would love nothing more than to see them fall on their face, and as someone who would love to see the NBA quit changing the rules to favor offenses, but ...

Phoenix will be winning the title this year bar major injury. And I said that before the season started. There defense isn't great, but it's good enough, and when Nash/Diaw/Stoudemire/Marion are healthy and playing together well, particularly with guys like Barbosa capable of filling in, there ain't a team in the league that can stop them.

As far as the 'stopping a college team' remark, yeah that was hyperbole. But hyperbole based in fact. Denver has traded away the only size they had in the backcourt, meaning they can be posted up on at will. Assuming all goes well, Iverson will add enough to make Denver #4 in the West. Maybe even #4 in the league, but it won't matter. Phoenix will show them the true meaning of the running game, and both San Antonio and Dallas have too much balance and maturity(they know what a championship takes, Denver at their most optimistic is a team trying to figure that out). And of course with Melo out another 14 games, there's no way Denver finishes ahead of either of those two in the standings. So it really doesn't matter which one of those teams they face in the second round, assuming they get that far ... Game over in 5-6.

[miami_fan]

I like what Philly got and I think Billy King did a pretty good job considering the situation he was placed in. I still don't trust King and now Larry Brown with three first round picks.

Sounds like Iverson is paying dividends already. I just heard that within a half hour of the trade going public, the Nuggets sold 300 season tickets and expected to sell 3,000 by the end of the week.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I still don't trust King and now Larry Brown

Wait....what?

[Subby]

Nuggets now NBA title contenders? Answer: Yes
By John Hollinger
ESPN Insider

Just when you thought the West couldn't get any tougher, here comes another contender.

In one fell swoop on Tuesday, the Denver Nuggets went from a nice team that had little chance of making it past the first round to a legitimate threat to win the whole enchilada.

Allen Iverson and Carmelo Anthony have the potential to do great things together.

Yes, I said they can win it all. Everything.

As in, hoisting the Larry O'Brien trophy in June, having a Coors-soaked parade under the shadow of the Rockies, and being linked to conspiracy theories all summer as the result of a few strange calls by Bennett Salvatore.

As you might have guessed, I think this trade was an absolute home run for the Nuggets, one that elevates them into the grouping with the Spurs, Suns and Mavericks when we discuss the league's elite. (Sorry Utah fans, I'm not quite ready to go there yet. Gimme another month and I'll take it under advisement.)

I'm still amazed that the price wasn't higher, and I sure hope for the Clippers' sake that Shaun Livingston -- whom they deemed untouchable -- turns out to be a big star, because otherwise they're going to be wiping egg off their faces for a long time.

Yes, Iverson can be a pain in the butt. For one thing, he's not big on the whole idea of practice. Plus, he's likely to miss some time with injuries, and he's already 31. Just to make sure we're covering all the negatives, the trade also cost the Nuggets their best (some would say "only") passer in Andre Miller, subtracted frontcourt depth with the loss of Joe Smith, and forces two of the game's most tunnel-visioned scorers to share a single leather basketball.

In spite of that, I love it. Here's why:

The system fits. Putting Iverson with Anthony works a lot better than, say, pairing Stephon Marbury with Steve Francis, because this duo scores in very different ways.

Iverson wants the ball at the beginning of the play so he can go off the dribble and create; 'Melo is end-of-the-play guy interested in finishing. The only change required is that Iverson will have to pass a bit more and shoot a bit less, but we're not talking about radical surgery for a guy who's averaged better than seven assists per game the last three seasons.

And beyond that, Denver doesn't need to change a thing. The Nuggets already are the league's fastest-paced team, so we won't see the scenes in Philly with Iverson jetting out on the break while Chris Webber gamely tries to drag his leg down the court.

Additionally, the Nuggets already had two players who shared traits with Iverson: a lead guard with a shaky outside shot (Miller), and a mini-Iverson (Earl Boykins, coming off the bench). As a result, Iverson will fit into George Karl's system as seamlessly as any player in the league could, especially since he can spend his first 13 or 14 games gunning at will before Anthony comes back from suspension.

And unlike some coaches, Karl doesn't seem to have a big problem working with players who are perceived as difficult. He almost seems to relish it, in fact, as Gary Payton can attest.

C'mon, would you rather see Earl Boykins take those shots? People think that the Nugget who will miss out on the most shots will be Anthony, but this isn't true. Really, the guy who's going to lose out is Boykins, who will see a precipitous drop in playing time once the suspensions end because Iverson can do his superhuman 46-minute routine on so many nights.

This is the same Boykins who is shooting 37.0 percent from the floor, has upset teammates with his poor shot selection, is on the trading block and is spending tonight trying to figure out why he's still a Nugget.

Shouldn't be a tough act to follow for the Answer. Meanwhile, having those shots transferred to Iverson's ledger should produce an uptick in baskets and a huge jump in free-throw attempts.

Look at last year's Sixers. If you want to know how these guys can share the ball, consider the 2005-06 76ers.

Like this year's Nuggets, that team had Iverson ... except it had about 1/63rd of the surrounding talent. Two players accounted for the vast chunk of the Sixers' possessions -- Iverson and Chris Webber. Webber's Usage Rate (the rate of possessions used) wasn't much different from Carmelo Anthony's a year ago, so think of it as Iverson playing with a one-legged version of Anthony.

Despite that, and the paucity of teammates who could score (for a quick refresher, Kevin Ollie played more than 1,000 minutes; John Salmons played more than 2,000; and Webber, the No.2 option, had a 48.2 True Shooting Percentage), the Sixers were an above-average offensive team a year ago, ranking 13th in the NBA in Offensive Efficiency.

Now replace Webber with Carmelo Anthony. Replace Samuel Dalembert with Marcus Camby, Kevin Ollie with Boykins, Kyle Korver with J.R. Smith, and Steven Hunter with Nene. Don't you think it's possible that the Nuggets will be just a wee bit better off?

In fact, the Nuggets already are an excellent offensive team -- they rank sixth in Offensive Efficiency through Monday's games, and are within 1.1 points of second place. With the addition of Iverson, it says here that from the end of 'Melo's suspension to the end of the season, only Phoenix will be better offensively.

The bigs don't need the rock. This is an underrated aspect of the Iverson deal, but an important one.

Look at the types of big guys the Nuggets have. There's Marcus Camby, who doesn't need to have any plays called for him and gets all his points on transition, offensive boards and kick-out jumpers. There's Eduardo Najera, who scores on hustle plays, sets bone-jarring screens and otherwise stays out of the way.

And then there's Reggie Evans. I don't think there could be a more perfect fit than putting Evans on a team with Iverson and Anthony. All those two guys want to do is shoot it, and all Evans wants to do is gather the misses.

Evans ranks second in the NBA in Offensive Rebound Rate behind Indiana's Jeff Foster, grabbing an amazing 16.4 percent of the misses when he's on the court. Thus, his greatest skill is perfectly placed to mitigate Iverson's worst trait -- his tendency to keep letting it rip on a 7-for-24 night.

The 'Sheed factor. Remember when Rasheed Wallace got traded from Portland to Atlanta to Detroit? (Yes, he was a Hawk. Even played a game for them. Both teams played hard.) Remember how he bent over backwards to show his new teammates that his reputation was wrong and he could be a great team player? And remember how he was the missing link that took Detroit from a solid-but-unspectacular playoff team to NBA Champions?

This is Iverson right now. For the first time in years he has something to prove and capable teammates to prove it with. He knows his legacy is at stake, too. It's one thing if you can't coexist with Jerry Stackhouse or Keith Van Horn -- people will forgive that. But if he can't make it work with Anthony, that's what will go down in the history books: "Great individual player. Could win only if other four guys didn't want or need the ball."

As a result of that, and the fact that Iverson has a legitimate shot at a ring for the first time in years, I have a feeling we're in for some of his best basketball. None of this will change the fact that he's 31, that he might get hurt, or that his jumper is streaky at best. But I'd rather take my chances on a focused, motivated, hell-bent-to-prove-them-wrong Iverson than on the dejected, sullen guy who was getting his brains beat in every night as a Sixer.

So overall, it's a fantastic deal for the Nuggets. One of the things Michael Lewis points out in the book "Moneyball" is that midseason trades are a tremendous opportunity, because they give teams a chance to make deals they never could get away with in the offseason.

In my view, this was that kind of trade. The Nuggets basically just got Iverson for Andre Miller. Are you kidding me? Could any team possibly have made that deal over the summer, or anything close to it? Of course not.

But they pulled it off, and because of it they have a two-year window to bring the city its first NBA championship.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Wait....what?

Larry Brown has confirmed that he was a consultant to Billy King during the Iverson trade talks. There were some earlier reports that he was hired by the Sixers as a full time consultant but those reports have not been confirmed.

[albionmoonlight]

The Nuggets weren't going anywhere before this trade.

Now, they may still go nowhere, but they have the chance to go somewhere.

The point of this game is to win championships. Sometimes, that requires taking chances.

Good move for Denver.

Personally, I would have liked to see him go to Minnesota, just because I like KG a lot, and I would have liked to see what KG and AI could have done together. But, looking at Minnesota's roster, there is NOTHING there that Philadelphia could have wanted.

[TroyF]

Arles,

It's important to note all of your numbers are as of RIGHT NOW. As in before the AI trade. Now, the three point shooting won't improve, we know that, but there are a lot of things you are missing.

1) Your point about Bell and Marion being better than anyone the Nuggets have is off base. Yakouba Diawara is a terrific defender. (Held Gilbert to 10-28 without a FT the other night) There is also one other player to be aware of. . .

2) Nene. He's getting healthier. And if you look at the 82games.com stats you'll see clearly that he's been a terrific defensive player when healthy. (in actuality, even this year he's been terrific, with a 7.4 PER against at PF and 14 against at C) As he regains his quickness, he's a guy who will be tough in the paint and has the speed to D on the perimeter. Not as good as Marion, no, but he's pretty good none the less.

3) Back to the "right now" comment. Denver has been in flux for most of the season. KMart was hurt early and Nene missed a slew of games. We put in a new offense and were working in 4 new rotation guys into the mix, including both the starting and backup SG. To put this bluntly, Denver has played like crap this year. Total crap. If it weren't for Melo scoring the way he has, we'd have been buried right now.

You flash the numbers above and it's stunning to me. The Suns are on a roll, winning 15 in a row and are slaughtering teams. The Nuggets have been mediocre at best not counting Melo and you look at the numbers and see how close they are in rank to the Suns in almost every major category.

Are you telling me that Iverson is going to worsen the Denver stats? That Denver is going to be a worse offensive team now than it was yesterday at this time? Sorry, I think that's insanity. Pure insanity.

The Suns are still a better team and I believe the Mavs and Spurs are as well. But I wouldn't just roll your eyes at the Nuggets and make believe the difference is some gigantic gap. Denver closed it a lot yesterday. It's not out of the realm at all that Denver will contend now. Read the Hollinger article above for someone who is thinking like I am.

[Young Drachma]

KG needs to go to New Jersey. Or else getting Kidd there in the first place would've just ended up wasting his time all in all. Ok, so that's a bit much. But he and KG needs each other in the worst way. I don't care how they get it done, they just need to do it.

[highfiveoh]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

But, looking at Minnesota's roster, there is NOTHING there that Philadelphia could have wanted.

They didn't have any picks or expiring contracts, correct. They did, however, have Randy Foye, who King is in love with. Foye is the only reason people mentioned the Wolves as a destination and the talk on the boards yesterday was that McHale never offered him in a deal.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Arles,

It's important to note all of your numbers are as of RIGHT NOW. As in before the AI trade. Now, the three point shooting won't improve, we know that, but there are a lot of things you are missing.

I doubt AI improves the overall FG% either given he is a career 42% guy. I also don't see how adding AI and subtracting Miller/Joe Smith helps improve the defensive FG%. AI should help Denver's scoring, but I don't know that scoring was an area Denver needed a ton of help in (esp at AI's clip).

1) Your point about Bell and Marion being better than anyone the Nuggets have is off base.

Marion finished 5th in the league in DPOY in 04 and 05, was all-defense 1st team in 04 and 05, as well as all-defense 3rd team last season. He is arguably a top 10 defender in the league right now and no on Denver is even in the same stratosphere at this point.

You also mention 82games.com, one of their contributors listed Raja Bell as an honorable mention SG on the All-defensive team (after Bowen and Iguadala). He also listed Boris Diaw as an honarable mention center. Only Camby made the list for Denver (2nd team - one spot ahead of Diaw).

Yakouba Diawara is a terrific defender. (Held Gilbert to 10-28 without a FT the other night). There is also one other player to be aware of. . .

2) Nene. He's getting healthier. And if you look at the 82games.com stats you'll see clearly that he's been a terrific defensive player when healthy. (in actuality, even this year he's been terrific, with a 7.4 PER against at PF and 14 against at C) As he regains his quickness, he's a guy who will be tough in the paint and has the speed to D on the perimeter. Not as good as Marion, no, but he's pretty good none the less.

You're giving me guys averaging 19 and 14 MPG. There is really no sample size to see how good they are. And, even if both guys are all word, they play such little time on the floor it's not going to impact much. Nene's only been in on 16% of the minutes at his position so far. As to Diawara, while he's been in on 36% of the minutes, his production has been very poor so far. Plus, if he is so good, why is he struggling to steal time from Edwardo Najara?

3) Back to the "right now" comment. Denver has been in flux for most of the season. KMart was hurt early and Nene missed a slew of games. We put in a new offense and were working in 4 new rotation guys into the mix, including both the starting and backup SG. To put this bluntly, Denver has played like crap this year. Total crap. If it weren't for Melo scoring the way he has, we'd have been buried right now.

I'd be more than happy to revisit this in a couple months. I think Denver is better with AI, but only in the Houston/Utah class, not near the Suns/Mavs/Spurs class.

You flash the numbers above and it's stunning to me. The Suns are on a roll, winning 15 in a row and are slaughtering teams. The Nuggets have been mediocre at best not counting Melo and you look at the numbers and see how close they are in rank to the Suns in almost every major category.

The Suns were horrid for the first 9 games (3-6) as they were working in Amare and had a whole new rotation. They've been very good of late, but the Suns are obviously getting better.

Denver's played only 8 of their first 23 games against the West. The Suns have played 15 against the West. If anything, Denver's been very fortunate with their schedule.

Are you telling me that Iverson is going to worsen the Denver stats? That Denver is going to be a worse offensive team now than it was yesterday at this time? Sorry, I think that's insanity. Pure insanity.

Denver's offensive numbers are fine, it's theire defense that needs help. Plus, I doubt AI will be helping their FG% and 3% much.

The Suns are still a better team and I believe the Mavs and Spurs are as well. But I wouldn't just roll your eyes at the Nuggets and make believe the difference is some gigantic gap. Denver closed it a lot yesterday. It's not out of the realm at all that Denver will contend now. Read the Hollinger article above for someone who is thinking like I am.

I think Denver is better, but I'm not sure how good "better" is. I'd still put them on par with Houston and the Jazz. but, without Melo for 15 games, they will be fortunate not to have a first round exit against Phoenix, SA or Dallas.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by highfiveoh

They didn't have any picks or expiring contracts, correct. They did, however, have Randy Foye, who King is in love with. Foye is the only reason people mentioned the Wolves as a destination and the talk on the boards yesterday was that McHale never offered him in a deal.

Don't ask me how I know this, but that's a lie. They offered him. The problem is the rest of it. He's on a rookie contract. They still had to get some expiring deals or players Philly wanted back and they didn't have any of it. The only chance in hell they had was to offer Smith and Foye and then hope some third team bailed them out and took some of their garbage so the expirings/picks could go to Philly.

There just was never much chance of that happening. In a perfect world, Philly wouldn't have even taken Dre. Dre only became a serious topic when Denver couldn't find a third team to throw in a second expiring to Smith and the picks. Their goal was to use Dre like a better version of Eric Snow and let AI play SG with JR Smith coming off the bench.

Alas, the world isn't perfect, they couldn't find the third team and Dre was the guy who had to be put into the deal to make it work. So AI will play the PG with JR as the SG, Melo at SF, Nene (when he gets fully healthy) at PF and Camby at C, with Boykins, Diawara, Linas Kleiza, Eddie Najera and Reggie Evans as the primary backups.

[TroyF]

Arles,

Watch Diawara the next 10 games. He played over 40 minutes the other night and shut down Artest. Nene isn't going to average 19 minutes all season. He'll be up over 30 when it's all said and done, and he DOES have a history of being a very good defender. (in fact, you'll find that in 03/04 he was probably our best player not named Melo and had the best roland rating on the team)

The Nuggets have been lucky with their schedule, no doubt about it. And that's what I'm saying. They've played terribly for most of this year, yet if you look at the overall record, you'll see they've came out of it ok.

As for the offense improving, it's gonna improve quite a bit. Teams were able to double and triple Melo in the playoffs last year and for most of this year. Melo has been doing his damage as the primary scorer, getting multiple people thrown out at him and no reliable second option. Denver has had no penetration/kickouts and on nights when Melo has been off (the few times that's happened) there has been no other place to turn.

AI changes that. The half court offense should be a ton better and teams that double/triple Melo will do so at their own peril. There are now to many weapons to do that and get away with it.

It all remains to be seen of course. Chemistry issues could happen. But I think Denver is easily in the top four of the conference right now and if Melo and AI mesh and Nene get fully healthy, Denver is going to be one nasty team come playoff time.

[CU Tiger]

This is all I have to say about thiss...at the time of trade Mello was #1 in the league in shot attempts per game. AI was #2. AI + Mello = more shots per game than the bobcats team.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It's not like Iverson or Melo are considered particularily weak defenders. It's not their strong suit, sure, but there are plenty worse.

I don't know about Melo, but watching him in person here in Philly for ten years and going to fifty-some games during that time, I can tell you that Iverson is a terrible, terrible defender. He is a liability on defense. The Sixers used to hide him on defense as much as possible. He creates match-up problems because his team needs a point guard that is tall enough to guard the typical shooting guard. He can't rebound. He gets a lot of steals, but only because he takes crazy chances that more than half the time leaves him out of position, leaving an opposing player open for an easy shot.

Still, the most exciting player I ever saw in person.