Survivor:Challenge/Common Thread (GAME OVER! FEED BACK WELCOME)

[Alan T]

Sure, always my faault!

[Lathum]

Good job Helsing!!

[Alan T]

For Howard/Oz .. what we were told is we can view both of your temporary threads, but not your normal tribe only thread. So nothing from the past, and only new stuff today.

I've tossed out the idea among my tribe that we all make a pact to not look in the Oz thread today to give you all freedom to talk about things, but that hasn't been agreed upon yet, so just a heads up.

[KWhit]

Wow. Oz couldn't even make a single update to their pages?

Please don't ask anyone to throw a challenge for Oz again.

[Passacaglia]

Just throwing out an idea for Oz. Even though we've all agreed not to read your thread, I wouldn't assume that you guys are safe -- it's a fair bet that the wolf in our midst will violate that agreement. Does everyone in Oz know who the seer is? Perhaps everyone in the group can reveal that a particular person is or is not a wolf -- everyone else will be submitting a fake reveal, and you guys only have to pay attention to the seer's. Of course, if you guys tell us who has been scanned in public, then whoever sees your thread will know who the seer is -- so maybe it's all worthless. Just tossing out ideas.

[Barkeep49]

C'mon in everyone. You'll notice that ntn was voted off last night.

Today's challenge is a simple reward challenge. In Werewolf you must learn to think like others. Knowing how to predict people's actions and thoughts gives you a large advantage, especially as a wolf. And so for this challenge we'll be playing a game of "Family Feud".

I surveyed people about various questions. Who I surveyed is a little different for each question and is noted. I multiplied the actual answers so each question had a possible 100 points (so if I surveyed 20 people, and you guess an answer which got 2 responses, you'll get 10 points). At least two people had to list an answer in order for it to appear on the board.

Questions were:

30 library patrons in the Youth Services section of a library were asked: Which is the best Harry Potter book? (6 answers)

40 fourth graders were asked: What is your favorite food? (5 answers)

20 teachers were asked: Which movie will win best picture? (5 answers)

20 poker players were asked: Who is the best poker player? (4 answers)

30 adults (combination of library patrons and teachers) were asked: What time do you get up in the morning (to the nearest half hour)? (6 answers)

The winning tribe will receive the ability to stay strong for a couple of the tribulations which await you. Survivors ready? Go!

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Wow. Oz couldn't even make a single update to their pages?

Please don't ask anyone to throw a challenge for Oz again.

C'mon in everyone. You'll notice that Raiders and Blade were voted out at yesterday's tribal council.

Today's challenge is a little different. It's time to give back. In a moment I am going to list 5 wikipedia articles all about different sports text sims, or even the text sim page itself. All are rather sad examples compared to such good articles as the one on FM. Your job is as a tribe to chose one of the articles and to improve it. One of the articles is in such dire straights that it is being considered for deletion. Articles will be given on a First Come, First Serve basis, so once a tribe claims an article another tribe may not claim it. Since this is a more time intensive challenge, you have until Sunday at Noon to complete it. You may continue to work on it after that, but there is no guarantee that judges will see any changes after that time. After that time our panel of guest judges will rate you on:
Depth of Information
Clarity of Writing
Presentation/Organization

The titles you have to chose from are:
FOF Taken by Oz
OOTP Taken by Helsing
Text Sims
MF
Fast Break Basketball/Fast Break College Basketball (Page needs to be started)

This is both a reward and immunity challenge. The losing team will go to tribal council. Only one catch. The tribal council and their tribal thread for the day, will be accessible by the winning team and all voting will be done publicly. So the winning tribe should gain some real insight into how the losing team is operating. Not to mention the winning team is once again immune from wolf attack.

Survivor's ready? Go!

Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see where it says the article has to be posted to wikipedia. We had an article posted in the other thread. I'm pretty dismayed by this ruling.

[Passacaglia]

I know it was asked somewhere if it had to be updated on wiki, or just submitted somewhere, and Barkeep answered to submit it. It might have been in our tribal thread, though.

[Passacaglia]

Er, he answered to submit it to wiki.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

C'mon in everyone. You'll notice that Raiders and Blade were voted out at yesterday's tribal council.


Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see where it says the article has to be posted to wikipedia. We had an article posted in the other thread. I'm pretty dismayed by this ruling.

I'm responding in your temp tribal thread

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Just throwing out an idea for Oz. Even though we've all agreed not to read your thread, I wouldn't assume that you guys are safe -- it's a fair bet that the wolf in our midst will violate that agreement. Does everyone in Oz know who the seer is? Perhaps everyone in the group can reveal that a particular person is or is not a wolf -- everyone else will be submitting a fake reveal, and you guys only have to pay attention to the seer's. Of course, if you guys tell us who has been scanned in public, then whoever sees your thread will know who the seer is -- so maybe it's all worthless. Just tossing out ideas.

Eh, the more I think about it, the more to me its either a "you risk outing yourself today" or "don't risk outing yourself today" type thing. After thinking about it a bit, its probably best just to play it safe and even if the seer found another wolf last night, just don't come out with it today and wait till tommorrow back in your own tribal thread to do it.

I still think its best to follow through with a pact to not view Oz's thread as there is no wolf there, and focus mainly on Howard's thread today.

[SnDvls]

it was asked by me in this thread post # 1294 I believe and the response was the next post.

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Barkeep - do we need to put our entry in wikipedia or in our tribe thread or where?

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

On wikipedia

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Eh, the more I think about it, the more to me its either a "you risk outing yourself today" or "don't risk outing yourself today" type thing. After thinking about it a bit, its probably best just to play it safe and even if the seer found another wolf last night, just don't come out with it today and wait till tommorrow back in your own tribal thread to do it.

I still think its best to follow through with a pact to not view Oz's thread as there is no wolf there, and focus mainly on Howard's thread today.

I agree that it is best to follow through with this pact -- I just don't trust the wolf to follow it, and want to advise the seer of that.

[st.cronin]

Does it make sense for the seer to come out if he found a wolf in the tribe which is in council? (Howard, I believe)

After all, there might be another situation like this, where the seer can tell a tribe who to vote for.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Does it make sense for the seer to come out if he found a wolf in the tribe which is in council? (Howard, I believe)

After all, there might be another situation like this, where the seer can tell a tribe who to vote for.

That's a tough one. I want to say yes, depending on the seer's comfort level, or the tribe's comfort level. But I don't trust this pact to stop our wolf, who wouldn't be breaking any rules by logging into Oz as a guest or something. Also, Howard had 1 wolf out of 4 -- I have a feeling I know who's getting voted out this time there (not from reading their temporary thread, just a hunch), so if it's someone other than him, you might want to consider it.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

That's a tough one. I want to say yes, depending on the seer's comfort level, or the tribe's comfort level. But I don't trust this pact to stop our wolf, who wouldn't be breaking any rules by logging into Oz as a guest or something. Also, Howard had 1 wolf out of 4 -- I have a feeling I know who's getting voted out this time there (not from reading their temporary thread, just a hunch), so if it's someone other than him, you might want to consider it.

Obviously though if the answer is yes, we would want people to view the oz thread. Otherwise there's no point - the wolf already knows who the wolf is.

Also it might be helpful if Howard indicated who was most likely (and least likely) to get voted off.

[Alan T]

Without knowing more about the situation in Oz, I personally think if you all don't plan on voting off your seer today (which I assume is the case), and the seer has both idols that Lupus said they passed, he should be safe to last another day.

I think the safe route is just hold on to the information today and try to find the next wolf. I think the seer is in a very safe position right now as long as no one does anything foolish, so just play it safe.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Obviously though if the answer is yes, we would want people to view the oz thread. Otherwise there's no point - the wolf already knows who the wolf is.

Also it might be helpful if Howard indicated who was most likely (and least likely) to get voted off.

I'm not sure if I follow you here, but my concern is that the Helsing wolf will find out who the seer is.

[Alan T]

To clarify my last statement.. if the seer has both wolf idols, he theoretically should be safe until tribes merge later on. So I just wouldn't do something that puts him at later risk before you need to. This likely isn't a case where the seer could possibly die any night.. he has wolf protection.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm not sure if I follow you here, but my concern is that the Helsing wolf will find out who the seer is.

Right, but in the hypothetical scenario we want the howard non-wolves to read the thread. Otherwise they won't know who to vote for.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Right, but in the hypothetical scenario we want the howard non-wolves to read the thread. Otherwise they won't know who to vote for.

Howard can't read your thread -- only Helsing. So I guess we're saying it's up to you guys to tell Howard in here, since none of us are looking at it.

[st.cronin]

ah

well, still, Howard should post in here who is most likely/least likely to get voted off ... that way our seer can have a say, if appropriate

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

ah

well, still, Howard should post in here who is most likely/least likely to get voted off ... that way our seer can have a say, if appropriate

Yeah, it shouldn't be too hard for them to do that, since there are only three of them. I can tell you who I think is off next, but I probably shouldn't try to affect their votes.

[Lathum]

So is anyone else on board with me that the wolves can't communicate and there won't be any night kills until we merge?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So is anyone else on board with me that the wolves can't communicate and there won't be any night kills until we merge?

Well so far with no night kills, I'm begining to believe that there are no night kills till merger. I still am not sure about the thought that wolves can't communicate to each other, but I think it has to remain a possibility that we keep in mind.

Initially I thought there might be other explanations for no wolf kills, but the longer this goes, the less likely I think that is.

[Passacaglia]

if the wolves can't kill (or do anything) until the merger, I wonder if they even know that they are wolves? Maybe that's why RA didn't really say anything when he was outed -- he was surprised as the rest of us?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

if the wolves can't kill (or do anything) until the merger, I wonder if they even know that they are wolves? Maybe that's why RA didn't really say anything when he was outed -- he was surprised as the rest of us?

My recollection might be wrong, but I thought Oz said that Raiders did admit to being a wolf.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Sorry, I'm trying to be helpful, but I'm in a different time zone than most of you.

He was outed around 7:50. He had posted earlier in the day, so depending on how likely you think it is that he knew he had been scanned...

And he didn't put up much of a fight at all. He didn't deny that he was a wolf, for one thing.

This is post 1593. I think that's where I assumed that he didn't outright admit he was a wolf -- just that he didn't deny it. You could be right, that he knew he was a wolf -- but to neither admit nor deny it seems weird.

[Passacaglia]

I'm trying to think how I would respond if I were RA, and I thought I was a villager, and someone said they were the seer, and I was a wolf. Would I think it a wolf ploy? Probably. But maybe as close to deadline as he found out about it, he figured that there was nothing he could do, anyway? Even saying "I'm not a wolf" after you're voted out would be pointless -- who would believe him anyway? Just some thoughts.

[Barkeep49]

Team answers may either be PM'ed to me or clearly posted in the tribal thread. Deadline is 10 PM

[path12]

So is Oz saying that we didn't get the wolf yesterday? I just want to make sure of that, because I felt pretty confident that we got one in ntn.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm trying to think how I would respond if I were RA, and I thought I was a villager, and someone said they were the seer, and I was a wolf. Would I think it a wolf ploy? Probably. But maybe as close to deadline as he found out about it, he figured that there was nothing he could do, anyway? Even saying "I'm not a wolf" after you're voted out would be pointless -- who would believe him anyway? Just some thoughts.

Well remember at the time, none of us knew that he wouldn't be revealed as a wolf when he died. If he did, I am pretty sure he could have performed some other trickery or caused doubt.

If you remember the way they posted it, he gave them a "shocker" and I could swear I remember a few times where they say he finally admitted he was a wolf.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

So is Oz saying that we didn't get the wolf yesterday? I just want to make sure of that, because I felt pretty confident that we got one in ntn.

Can I ask out of curiosity why you felt ntn was the wolf? Just as an outside observer so far, if I had to guess who the wolf in Howard was, it was your actions that made me feel the most wolfish. However I was only limited to what I saw in this thread, so no idea if things changed for within your thread.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Can I ask out of curiosity why you felt ntn was the wolf? Just as an outside observer so far, if I had to guess who the wolf in Howard was, it was your actions that made me feel the most wolfish. However I was only limited to what I saw in this thread, so no idea if things changed for within your thread.

Interesting...path seemed the least wolf-like in Howard to me. Just shows that I am getting more and more list in this game.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Can I ask out of curiosity why you felt ntn was the wolf? Just as an outside observer so far, if I had to guess who the wolf in Howard was, it was your actions that made me feel the most wolfish. However I was only limited to what I saw in this thread, so no idea if things changed for within your thread.

Well Alan, let's be fair -- I usually seem wolfish to you, so you can't be surprised by your feelings there.

You know my feelings about the bid challenge. ntn drove the changes to our original bid. Combined with some suspicious comments in hindsight to that challenge, and that he later tried to distance himself somewhat from those changes, I felt he was by far our most likely wolf.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

Well Alan, let's be fair -- I usually seem wolfish to you, so you can't be surprised by your feelings there.

You know my feelings about the bid challenge. ntn drove the changes to our original bid. Combined with some suspicious comments in hindsight to that challenge, and that he later tried to distance himself somewhat from those changes, I felt he was by far our most likely wolf.

So you're still looking at those changes as being wolfish? Why would a wolf want to put himself in danger by putting his own tribe in council?

[Alan T]

I don't understand that either. Why would a wolf want to purposely put himself at danger and give life to another tribe that had 0 wolves in it? I still don't get that, and no one has given me a good answer to it yet 3 days later.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't understand that either. Why would a wolf want to purposely put himself at danger and give life to another tribe that had 0 wolves in it? I still don't get that, and no one has given me a good answer to it yet 3 days later.

Word. I feel like I have to take a lot of responsibility for bringing this to the forefront, but it's really just looking like an unfortunate coincidence.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't understand that either. Why would a wolf want to purposely put himself at danger and give life to another tribe that had 0 wolves in it? I still don't get that, and no one has given me a good answer to it yet 3 days later.

I don't have a good answer to that either, and admit that's the big hole in my theory. I just feel that what happened was far too high of odds to just have been coincidence. I could be wrong, but it really just seems way improbable that we just happened to land on the same things with such close bids.

[Passacaglia]

Path, this is the first time you've mentioned any kind of change by you guys. Can you tell us more about that -- what the change was, and when it happened? That might help.

[Alan T]

Eh, I think the bids thing is just beating a dead horse. The way it ended was probably the best possible for the villagers (non-wolves). Oz was protected from tribal council, the team with the most questions won and got to find out how many wolves there were everywhere, and one of the teams with the best chances at catching a wolf ended up going to tribal council.

If the wolves did influence it any, then we can just thank them for that since it hurt them more than us I think.

I really really wish Oz wasn't in tribal council today. With the number of Oz members left, I felt it pretty easy for their seer to scan through the members of Lupus and the remaining members of Howard for those two wolves.

Then once tribes do eventually merge, there would be enough remaining non-wolves in Howard, Lupus plus the non wolves in Helsing and all of Oz to smoke out the last wolf (if they aren't found before the merger).

I just think we need to focus on getting rid of the wolves before a merger, as it seems more and more likely once a merger happens, we'll start seeing night kills, conversions and other nasty stuff.

[st.cronin]

RA did eventually admit to being a wolf - I assume because he didn't realize that Barkeep wouldn't describe him as "voted off - wolf."

I don't know what to think of no night kills yet. I disagree with Lathum, I think it's foolish to assume the wolves are not in communication with each other. It's possible, I guess, but not something I want to try to assume yet.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

RA did eventually admit to being a wolf - I assume because he didn't realize that Barkeep wouldn't describe him as "voted off - wolf."

I don't know what to think of no night kills yet. I disagree with Lathum, I think it's foolish to assume the wolves are not in communication with each other. It's possible, I guess, but not something I want to try to assume yet.

at least I am coming up with a theory and trying to be helpfull.

Why do you disagree with me?

[Lathum]

dola- I didn't mean to sound harsh

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

RA did eventually admit to being a wolf - I assume because he didn't realize that Barkeep wouldn't describe him as "voted off - wolf."

I don't know what to think of no night kills yet. I disagree with Lathum, I think it's foolish to assume the wolves are not in communication with each other. It's possible, I guess, but not something I want to try to assume yet.

Any ability to provide more information about what was said in regards to Lathum from the other day? We would like to work on the assumption he is not a wolf based on the seer saying so. Alot of ideas in our tribe's thread in how to interact with your tribe specifically is based upon the idea that Lathum is 100% cleared of being a wolf. I'm just curious to what the hesitation is to saying so when you almost came out admitting as much the other day.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Lathum

at least I am coming up with a theory and trying to be helpfull.

Why do you disagree with me?

Because it would be unusual, and there's not really anything to support it, as far as I can tell. It's like suggesting that there are two seers. Sure, there might be, but what's the point in playing that way?

[Lathum]

I would just like to point out I am 100% clearing myself. I am not a wolf.

[st.cronin]

Bombshell: Lathum is not cleared. That was a bluff move on our part.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Because it would be unusual, and there's not really anything to support it, as far as I can tell. It's like suggesting that there are two seers. Sure, there might be, but what's the point in playing that way?

sorry but that makes no sense. At least there is some evidence (no night kills, yet we know there ARE werewolves in the game) that point towards them not being able to communicate.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Bombshell: Lathum is not cleared. That was a bluff move on our part.

Ok, well i don't understand your purpose in saying it at the time... at least thats cleared up now.