Cities that deserve a major league sports franchise

[Blade6119]

To quote:

Las Vegas Sports & Entertainment Group (LVSEG) President Mark Noorzai has been “negotiating with MLS owners and Commissioner Don Garber for three months” about placing a team in the city, according to Rob Miech of the LAS VEGAS SUN. LVSEG “hopes to build a high-tech, state-of-the-art stadium"

[Blade6119]

dola. the 2010 figure is from a seperate article on the si truth and rumors. That quote comes from sportsbusinnesdaily

[stevew]

Does MLS even register as a "major" sport with people? Honestly maybe I hang around the wrong people, but I've never heard anyone mention it ever.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by stevew

Does MLS even register as a "major" sport with people? Honestly maybe I hang around the wrong people, but I've never heard anyone mention it ever.

It's probably a mid-major sport somewhere in the rein of Arena Football. Deep pocketed owners keep otherwise niche sport in the eyes of many. Indoor Lacrosse probably in that realm too, but I'd say a step below since at least there are "major" leagues of gridiron football and soccer around the world.

So it's like the 5th major sport, if there was such a thing. Mostly because it has a TV deal and the fact that it's managed to survive a decade.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Well, the gist of the thread was cities like Billings Montana, OK City, Charlotte, etc. All I was saying was that here's another city that could support an NFL team. The number of cities that could support an NFL team > the number of NFL teams.

I get that there are a few other cities in America that are bigger.

If it makes you feel any better, I had a great time at the Spearmint Rhino in Albuquerque last month.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Albuquerque is the 33rd largest city in the US, the most educated city in the US, and one of the fastest growing.

Those are news to me. It's not even in the top 20 most educated http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/29/real...ties/index.htm, the metro area's growth is way down the list and it's about 25th in fastest growing city, according to the various lists that came out last summer.

You know I love Northern New Mexico but a little perspective (and accuracy) please before you jump on someone. I do, however, agree about MLS.

[SFL Cat]

Expansion

NFL -- Despite being frustrated in efforts to secure a new stadium, I have no doubt that LA will eventually have a NFL team. It's simply too big a TV market for the league not to have a presence there. That raises the interesting spectre of where to place a second team so the league can keep a balanced schedule. If an existing team relocates to LA, I'm sure the NFL would give special consideration to the city that was abandoned. If the LA team is a true expansion team, here are my thoughts on possible other expansion cities: Birmingham, AL; Orlando, FL; and San Antonio, TX. While the NFL will be playing regular season games in Europe, I certainly don't think we'll be seeing international expansion (even to Canada) anytime soon.

MLB -- Don't see expansion in MLB's future until they restructure revenue sharing. All the big markets have teams, and it is simply too hard for smaller markets to stay consistently competitive. We will probably see more team movement before all is said and done.

NBA -- Again, don't see expansion in this league's future, until they can regain lost prestige. At one point in the mid-to-late 80s and early 90s, the NBA was probably the second most popular professional sport in America and its growth looked unlimited. Somewhere along the way, the league has lost something (and I don't just think it was one of MJ's multiple retirements) and seems to be in a downward spiral. It certainly doesn't pull in the TV numbers like it used to do, even during the post season.

NHL -- I think the NHL should be the poster child for how to do things wrong in growing a professional sports league. The push into deep south markets was ill-advised and too fast. With the bad taste left in fans' mouths from the lockout and no major TV contract in place, I see the league contracting before expanding.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

And if you're the owner that's already playing there, you can best believe that he wants to do his best to keep the team there, rather than going back to New Orleans.

I wonder what's going to happen with that long term.

The Hornets, are, for all intents and purposes, already back in New Orleans (though they'll still be working out draft prospects in OKC this month). I think they'll do fine here, weather permitting.

New Orleans has aggressively embraced every pro team that has returned here since Katrina (besides the 25,000 season ticket waiting list for the Saints, even arena football and triple-A baseball attendance is up). Even though the Hornets took their sweet time trudging back, and everyone here has noticed how much they obviously don't want to be here, Shinn's deal with the state is set up so that the only way he can lose money here is by fielding an 18-64 team comprised of aggressively unlikeable malcontents, which is exactly what happened in 2004-05 (I guarantee you OKC wouldn't have fallen for that bunch). That's certainly not the team they'll have upon their return.

It sounds like OKC will get the Sonics, and I think they'll support them pretty well, although I have always wondered what will happen when they finally have a Mashburn-ian/Baron Davis-ian asshole to deal with (OKC has gotten a bit of a misleading taste of the NBA; for a bunch of millionaire athletes, the Hornets have a thoroughly likeable roster).

[Ryche]

I've never understood why Milwaukee does not have an NHL team, seems to be an ideal market.

Toronto seems like a logical place for an NFL team. Huge market, especially considering they would become Canada's team. Skydome would work for a stadium I would think. And of course LA should have a team.

If any of the major sports could survive in Las Vegas, I would think it would be basketball. Hockey doesn't make sense for that city and I think the gambling on NBA games is far below that for football or baseball. Oklahoma too deserves consideration with their response to the Hornets.

In baseball, they should have really just put one team in Orlando rather than two teams in substandard stadiums on the coasts. Given the economics of baseball, it's probably the hardest to find new cities that could succeed. Maybe a team could be successful in San Antonio given that city's size and the lack of competition from other sports. Otherwise, moves within existing territories, such as Newark or San Jose seem the best options.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I think he's talking strictly from an economic standpoint, Albuquerque would have a hard time supporting NFL football. MLS? Sure. Maybe even hockey or the NBA.

I'm very interested in understanding why you say this about Albuquerque but you think that Wyoming can support an NFL franchise. I know you love you some Wyoming, but this just seems totally contradictory.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

It sounds like OKC will get the Sonics, and I think they'll support them pretty well, although I have always wondered what will happen when they finally have a Mashburn-ian/Baron Davis-ian asshole to deal with (OKC has gotten a bit of a misleading taste of the NBA; for a bunch of millionaire athletes, the Hornets have a thoroughly likeable roster).

Clay Bennett seems to setting his sights on possibly moving the team somewhere other than Oklahoma City right now. He would like to put the team in Las Vegas, but Stern is blocking the move until they stop allowing betting for the sport. It could be a ploy from him to get some kind of financial deal from Oklahoma City, but Las Vegas is a much larger market with a fast-growing fan base. Personally, I would like to see the Hornets come back rather than have the Sonics because the Hornets are much closer to being a contender than the Sonics.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm very interested in understanding why you say this about Albuquerque but you think that Wyoming can support an NFL franchise. I know you love you some Wyoming, but this just seems totally contradictory.

I said above I was joking. I wasn't really that serious. And when I started this thread, I was being mostly speculative. If I wanted a serious thread on economic impact of teams, etc., then I'd just do the research (I have) on potential markets myself.

And it was last year, when I hadn't seriously looked at the numbers.

It was more like "if a certain place had to hold a team, what would it be?" sort of argument. Not "gee, this is the best idea EVER!"

Because clearly it's not by any stretch of the imagination.

Though, like everyone has already said about the NFL...if any league could support teams in otherwise "non-traditional" markets, they seem to be able to pull it off successfully.

And trust me, I don't love Wyoming. I'm just here. This state has way more things to concern itself with before worrying about pro sports teams of the first order, that's for sure.

Though if I had to choose a sport to put here, it'd be the NHL followed by MLS. If the team was somewhere in Cheyenne (90 minutes frm Denver...plus a military base and a regional population that's over 300k if you count Larimer County, CO and Albany County, WY) and the sport was a warm weather sport (hence why MLS would work better...) I think folks would come out, but the TV market is so poor that they'd have to hope to get on Altitude (owned by the Avs, so good luck with that) to get any real regional TV coverage. And I'm sure the Avs claim this as their market, as would the Colorado Rapids.

Realistically, I'm far more interested in seeing MLS go to Rochester and Portland and seeing the NHL go back to Canada where it's core market is, than I am any other bully pulpit.

Baseball needs another team in the NY Metro Area, preferably in Jersey, because the territorial rights would be easier to fight. I've played with that notion a few times in dynasties, figuring that if you put the team on Jersey Shore, that it'd be easier to get fans to come out, since that's a heavily trafficked area during the height of baseball season and if you use the right town, it's more than 75 miles from Philly or NYC, plus NJ Transit links are available.

Basketball is probably neglecting some markets too.

If you subscribe to the "small school" idea of sports leagues, then you probably like that American major sports leagues are very, very small entities relatively speaking. But I tend to think that there are plenty of economic arguments for having multiple tiers of major league sports (e.g. relegation, ultimately) that would satisfy more of the country and would add a whole new dimension to sport overall.

But I realize that's a minority view and that the logistics or even the will of such a thing -- especially given how many minor leagues that are independent tend to drop like flies over time -- isn't as easy as just saying it.

[Young Drachma]

Plus, I was speaking purely from the perspective that a state with the smallest population has long supported Division I college sports. And if you've ever been to this part of the country in the winter, you'd understand what sort of commitment that is. That always made me believe that a team here would draw well.

But like you all said earlier, trying to connect college and pro sports are a tough thing given the loyalties, fickle ownership, etc., plus whether the team connects with the state and is successful.

I think it's a case by case sort of thing. Because the Packers are the giant anomaly here and always will be. Because who is to say that you couldn't replicate that sort of model in other sports if their rules provided for it?

[JeffNights]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

I'd love to see a professional football team in Detroit.

LOL. Thanks I needed that.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by duckman

It could be a ploy from him to get some kind of financial deal from Oklahoma City, but Las Vegas is a much larger market with a fast-growing fan base.

I really do think he's just leveraging. When Bennett bought that team it was very hard for me to see any other resolution than the OKC Sonics. But if there is another resolution, it will be because they got an 11th hour arena deal with Washington state, not a move to Vegas.

Again weather permitting, I really believe the Hornets are in New Orleans for the long haul -- even though it's obvious Shinn much prefers Oklahoma for a number of reasons, not even necessarily financial.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Plus, I was speaking purely from the perspective that a state with the smallest population has long supported Division I college sports. And if you've ever been to this part of the country in the winter, you'd understand what sort of commitment that is. That always made me believe that a team here would draw well.

But like you all said earlier, trying to connect college and pro sports are a tough thing given the loyalties, fickle ownership, etc., plus whether the team connects with the state and is successful.

I think it's a case by case sort of thing. Because the Packers are the giant anomaly here and always will be. Because who is to say that you couldn't replicate that sort of model in other sports if their rules provided for it?

I think i need to read the thread more thoroughly, caused I missed that you were only being 1/2 serious about Wyoming ...

Agreed with all of your points in the last two posts.

[vex]

Not sure if you've seen(care), but OU has a new sport, womens rowing. Financed by two large donors. One of them? Clay Bennett.

[theclassic]

Let's keep in mind that the Green Bay Packers played up to 3 games a season in Milwaukee for awhile. They built a strong fan base in Milwaukee. You could make a strong point that if the Green Bay Packers didn't move at least a few of their games to Milwaukee, we might be talking about the Packers, in the same way we talk about the Sheboygan Red Skins. We don't. Because in the end a small city alone can't support a team.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

The A's are out of play, they are going to Fremont.

http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/oakbpk.htm

San Jose has shown interest in bringing the Athletics to a site west of their downtown. The San Jose City Council voted in December 2004 to attempt to acquire the former Del Monte cannery site on Auzerais Avenue near Interstate 280 for a stadium. However, the San Francisco Giants have territorial rights to Santa Clara County, where San Jose is located, and there has been no indication that the team would be willing to give up those rights.

Well, fuck me sideways...I was nearly a 5 minute walk from an MLB ballpark.