WANTED- FORZA 2 Clean racers

[red95vette]

So I'm hoping some FOFers also play XBOX 360 games. This group general seems a cut above the norm, so here is my plea....


OK, I'm sick of playing with 12 year olds on XBLive and people who think fun racing is either whipping everyone in the field with your tricked out, overpowered Ford GT (or whatever) -OR- alternatively if you happen to be losing due to some mechanical problem, or heaven help you better competition, then wrecking everyone else in the race.

So here's my call for help! I want to organize some online FUN, CLEAN, STRATEGIC racing. I've tried to host these online before but no one will enter the race lobby or else leaves when they find out the rules.

Rules are:
SIM Damage
SIM Fuel/Tires
NO MODIFIED OR TUNED Cars
NO Driver Line (there isn't one in real-life afterall)
NO Driver assists (I'm willing to allow AT and ABS if absolutely necessary)

For each race, I'd like to pick a random venue AND car make/model. Everyone has to race a stock car, default tuned, either from the arcade choices or if you have a custom painted one in your garage that's fine. I'd like to typically run at least 10 laps and 25 is even better IMO! It's great when fuel/tires/pitting come into the strategy for the race.

I'm not that great of a racer (I'm average to slightly-above I'd say) and ALL SKILLS ARE WELCOME as long as you are (or try to be) a clean racer.

If this type of racing sounds fun to you send me a friend request. If enough people are interested (and online at one time) I'll open a room and we'll give it a try!

XLB Handle = "itshimagain"

[hukarez]

Are we talking D class stock cars here?

EDIT: I know you can tweak the class of cars and what not when hosting a match (I've done so with another buddy of mine), so I guess you can count me in on this. I'd like to know what class you'd refer to, as I'll see if I've got extra CRs to just buy one.

[red95vette]

Any class really. I prefer D & C myself as I think the racing is a lot more challenging at that level, but I imagine we'll run anything/everything up to S class just for some variety (probably no race car stuff).

The beauty of running stock car races is that we can pick cars from the arcade choices - i.e., you don't have to own them in your career necessarily.

P.S. Got your friend request and added you. A couple other people from operation sports are also interested -- I'm surprised by all the very quick responses. It looks promising that we'll be able to assemble a nice size group. See you online soon.

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by red95vette

Any class really. I prefer D & C myself as I think the racing is a lot more challenging at that level, but I imagine we'll run anything/everything up to S class just for some variety (probably no race car stuff).

The beauty of running stock car races is that we can pick cars from the arcade choices - i.e., you don't have to own them in your career necessarily.

Ahh, I see. I've mostly been playing with another buddy of mine, and going through the multitude of options in the lobby pertaining to certain races. I'm not terribly great at it, especially since I apparently can't figure out a good proper gear ratio for my Corrado (one of these days, I'm going to blow out my engine with the way that thing is going).

I've gone ahead and added you for reference via a Friend request when I'm ready for some more Forza 2. It'll be interesting with the whole Pit thing... I've gone into the Pit by accident, and I'm not too familiar with ALL of the tracks at the least, but I'd like to be in on this for sure.

EDIT:

I'm presuming we're talking about strict stock, with no tire compound upgrades at all whatsoever? (This'll be very interesting... )

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Has there ever been a racing game that has a good system to remedy this problem? I've heard similar things about Nascar races online. I'm not sure there's any way to stop this from happening, though it would be great if they could find a way to keep people from doing it.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Has there ever been a racing game that has a good system to remedy this problem? I've heard similar things about Nascar races online. I'm not sure there's any way to stop this from happening, though it would be great if they could find a way to keep people from doing it.

Assuming an online profile keeps track of stats, the game could keep track of how many crashes were caused by a particular driver. This wouldn't be completely objective because not all crashes are on purpose and it would be hard to tell which of the two crashing cars was to blame, but a ratio of races to caused crashes could have some meaning.

[red95vette]

Originally Posted by hukarez

EDIT:

I'm presuming we're talking about strict stock, with no tire compound upgrades at all whatsoever? (This'll be very interesting... )

Yeah strictly stock. No upgrades, no tuning.

The idea is you can just get in the car (figuratively speaking) and drive and not worry about some guy having modded and tuned his to the hilt so that you have NO chance.

Forza2 is nice in this regard cause as the room host I can set the rules to FORCE everyone to use a particular car with default tuning and no upgrades.

We'll switch it up regularly and eventually probably try out every car/track combination available (at least that isn't locked in the default setup).

That's the other cool thing-- In a random online race you almost definitely have to pick from the top 1 or 2 cars from a class to have a chance or you'll get smoked every time. With everyone driving the same car that's not an issue, and you get to try out vehicles you'd probably never pick voluntarily otherwise!

I've gotten about 10 interested parties from operation sports as well. I'm hoping to eventually get 30+ people interested, that way we can run full races even if only 1/4 of the group is online/interested at any given time.

Again, I stress anyone at all interested, regardless of skill level, as long as you (try to) race clean, friend me at XBL:"itshimagain". See you all online soon.

[red95vette]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Assuming an online profile keeps track of stats, the game could keep track of how many crashes were caused by a particular driver. This wouldn't be completely objective because not all crashes are on purpose and it would be hard to tell which of the two crashing cars was to blame, but a ratio of races to caused crashes could have some meaning.

Well I'm assembling the group from a couple forums that generally have more mature & serious gamers. If anyone joins the races and purposely goes around causing wrecks, they simply will be booted from the race lobby. If we have a large enough group, Forza will let me invite people from the friends list (that we know are already interested in serious sim racing from their expressed interest) and completely exclude other outside "random" players from joining.

Everyone can be comfortable then knowing that the (inevitable) wrecks that do happen are unintentional, so that should keep everyone's tempers cool and enjoying the racing!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by red95vette

Well I'm assembling the group from a couple forums that generally have more mature & serious gamers. If anyone joins the races and purposely goes around causing wrecks, they simply will be booted from the race lobby. If we have a large enough group, Forza will let me invite people from the friends list (that we know are already interested in serious sim racing from their expressed interest) and completely exclude other outside "random" players from joining.

Everyone can be comfortable then knowing that the (inevitable) wrecks that do happen are unintentional, so that should keep everyone's tempers cool and enjoying the racing!

I've heard of leagues of people that still play the old Sierra NASCAR game. They have a group of guys that play nicely and they like the physics of the game. It's tough to get a lot of people together that race like that, but once you do, it's a lot of fun.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Has there ever been a racing game that has a good system to remedy this problem? I've heard similar things about Nascar races online. I'm not sure there's any way to stop this from happening, though it would be great if they could find a way to keep people from doing it.

Not for racing in particular, but the peer feedback option in XBox live is a decent way to tell if someone is an online gaming nuisance or not.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This sounds fantastic. Personally, I'd prefer some of the driver assists (particularly ABS and ATS) to be on, but it's not required. What about transmission? Everyone on manual, or is automatic going to be allowed? I've never been good with manual transmission, but I could learn, I guess.

[cartman]

I'd be up for this as well. I'd also recommend ABS/ATS. I was reading an article where they took some rigs to either Sebring or Laguna Seca to have some actual drivers race the virtual circuits. The drivers were turning laps in Forza that were two or three seconds slower than their actual lap times. The drivers said that to conserve tires they used ABS and traction control on the real cars. They turned that on in the game, and they started to run the same lap times in Forza as they did in real life.

[cartman]

Dola,

it was from the Ars Technica review of Forza:

hxxp://arstechnica.com/reviews/games/forza-motorsport-2.ars/2

...When Microsoft took the game to the Sebring 12-hour race this year to show off, they let the Risi Competitzione racing drivers have a go to compare the experience of lapping the track in a virtual F430 GT2 car with the real thing. Mika Salo, Jamie Melo and Johnny Mowlem all found they were slower in the game than in real life, as they were suffering wheel spin in certain corners. It turned out that in real life, the teams keep their traction control activated to save the tires, and once they turned it on in the game they were able to match their actual lap times. If you are brave, though, and play with all the aids turned off, along with no racing line and the hardest AI setting, you'll earn a 50 percent bonus at the end of each race, which adds up quickly....

[Eaglesfan27]

I'd be interested as well if we can work out the scheduling issues, but I'd also be in favor of ABS and ATS.

[red95vette]

I'll relent for auto transmission and ABS grudgingly .

Response is looking good so far guys. I'm online quite a bit... at various times of day, so I'm pretty flexible. If we have a group of at least 4 or 5 players that settles on a certain race time, I can probably accomodate that.

Otherwise, if I see 4 or 5 of the interested parties online at once, I'll open up a room and send invites to see if we can jump start-up a game (pun intended).

I'll probably be online later tonight and throughout the day tomorrow, although I'm not sure we've quite reached "critical mass" yet in terms of # of people interested. Hopefully, sometime over the next couple days we will.

Keith

XBL:"itshimagain"

[Eaglesfan27]

I'd only be available consistently to race on the weekends (Saturdays are the best for me.)

[spleen1015]

I think I will get this game just to race with you guys.

It would be a good thing for me if we schedule these things so that I know when to be online.

[MizzouRah]

I need to pick this game up.

[red95vette]

Run, don't walk, to the store now and get it then join us online

If you do, send me a friend request at "itshimagain" so that I'll be sure to include you on game invites when the room is active.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by red95vette

Run, don't walk, to the store now and get it then join us online

If you do, send me a friend request at "itshimagain" so that I'll be sure to include you on game invites when the room is active.

Might be a few days or so.. have to sneak past the wife. Thanks!!

[stevew]

I've never been particularly good at racing games, so i hesitate to spend any money on them. Anyone have any good recommendations for a cheap PC or console(GC/Wii) game that would be a good "trainer" to work on basic skills. I remember buying Nascar 2000 and absolutely sucking at it.

[red95vette]

C'mon show her who's boss! And after you do, ask her if it's ok to get Forza and then race online with your friends.

I got Forza2 and MLB The Show for the PS3 in back-to-back weeks and placated the wife by getting her Viva Pinata. It was on sale for $25 while my two titles were $60 each!

[spleen1015]

With these types of games, I've found that you have to play them a lot to get better at them.

[Eaglesfan27]

Also, the aids in this game are fantastic for newer players. Things such as the racing line are great for learning how to race.

[red95vette]

Actually, it all depends on how "sim" of an experience you are after. NASCAR 2003 by Papyrus (hard to find) is one of the best NASCAR sims, but very hard to drive. (PC SIM)

Grand Turismo 4 on the PS2 is good and so is the Original Forza for XBOX. The nice thing about these titles are there are lower level cars that you can used to get acclimated without being thrown into a 700HP monster car right off.

For that matter Forza 2 is that way as well, and from what I've experienced, has the most realistic "driving feel" as well. It's much improved over the original Forza IMO -- of course it's $60 versus the $10-$20 it would cost to get Forza1 or GT4.

Stay away from the titles like PGR or Need for Speed. They are really just arcade racers and won't help develop good driving skills (in fact probably do the opposite).

TOCA racing series is pretty good, but not quite true SIM, although it's not quite arcade either... a sort of hybrid. It's available on PS2 and PC for sure, not sure if one's available for GC though.

If you have a 360, the original Forza will run on it via emulation. Likewise with GT4 on the PS3.

[red95vette]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

With these types of games, I've found that you have to play them a lot to get better at them.

Practice certainly helps. But my biggest gains in skill came in a pretty short timeframe.

I found that turning driver assists OFF actually helped me to become a better driver much quicker -- across all genres of race titles: F1, NASCAR, Forza, etc).

After 2-3 hours of driving practice without aids and with manual transmission, I was driving as well without aids as I had been previous with them. After another 1-2 hours, I was actually about 5% faster overall, compared to the best times I'd logged with assists on. But, the biggest difference is I now have a much better "feel" for the car when I'm driving it.

Things like traction control and stability management actually mask the fact that a novice is driving the car much too aggressively. When you drive without them, you quickly find out how much you can reasonably push the vehicle without losing control. With some very high powered cars I don't use more than 25-30% of the throttle until I'm up to about 4th gear!

I found out first hand that the racing adage "you have to go slow to be fast" is very true! Going slow helps you work on your technique and the technical part of racing.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by red95vette

C'mon show her who's boss! And after you do, ask her if it's ok to get Forza and then race online with your friends.

I got Forza2 and MLB The Show for the PS3 in back-to-back weeks and placated the wife by getting her Viva Pinata. It was on sale for $25 while my two titles were $60 each!

Show her who's boss?

I just bought a Dell 24" monitor, Xbox 360 and two games.

[Pumpy Tudors]

red95vette, do you play with the standard controller, or do you use a wheel?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Show her who's boss?

I just bought a Dell 24" monitor, Xbox 360 and two games.

And I hear you're enjoying them a lot in the shed, right?

[red95vette]

I use a wheel nearly always.

Actually I have 3 (or I guess really 4) 2 for the PC (Micro$oft Sidewinders), 1 for PS2/PS3 (Logitech GT), 1 for 360 (Micro$oft Wireless wheel).

[Eilim]

Originally Posted by stevew

I've never been particularly good at racing games, so i hesitate to spend any money on them. Anyone have any good recommendations for a cheap PC or console(GC/Wii) game that would be a good "trainer" to work on basic skills. I remember buying Nascar 2000 and absolutely sucking at it.

I've been fighting the urge to pimp this game since I saw this post (Don't own a 360, and while I considered it for Forza 2, the idea ended when I heard my momo or g25 wheel wouldn't work... bastards at MS.. ) and didn't want to hijack the thread.

You might want to check out Live for Speed. Awesome game with a free demo you can check out that just limits the car/track combos. Aimed very much at the online sim crowd and not very arcade'ish. I used to rent a server and ran a few leagues for family and friends. I can't recommend the game enough for sim race fans. Maybe not the bells and whistles of GTR2, but a much better driving experience, atleast for me.

Now back to your 360 talk.. but don't hype the game too much, I really don't want to have to pick up the 360 and start using a substandard wheel.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by red95vette

I use a wheel nearly always.

Actually I have 3 (or I guess really 4) 2 for the PC (Micro$oft Sidewinders), 1 for PS2/PS3 (Logitech GT), 1 for 360 (Micro$oft Wireless wheel).

I would imagine that it's easier to adjust to no driving aids with a wheel. With the regular controller, though, I think those aids are almost necessary (at least some of them, anyway). Isn't it harder to get that "feel" for the car or to precisely use your throttle with the controller?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

And I hear you're enjoying them a lot in the shed, right?

Yeah, with no A/C to boot!

[red95vette]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I would imagine that it's easier to adjust to no driving aids with a wheel. With the regular controller, though, I think those aids are almost necessary (at least some of them, anyway). Isn't it harder to get that "feel" for the car or to precisely use your throttle with the controller?

Yeah without a doubt. I have driven with the controller as well and can do OK, not super, but I definitely need ABS on at a minimum and usually don't try to mess with manual transmission either.

[red95vette]

Originally Posted by Eilim

Now back to your 360 talk.. but don't hype the game too much, I really don't want to have to pick up the 360 and start using a substandard wheel.

Hehehe. Yeah I've never been overly impressed in the past with console racing SIMs. However, I also got sick of replacing or upgrading my PC every 12-18 months, so it's a compromise trade-off.

However, I must say that Forza2 is surprisingly good. I got it with lowish expectations, figuring it would simply be Forza1 with prettier graphics. But actually the physics are better than I had expected and ironically the graphics slightly worse. But I'll take good gameplay 7 days a week over eye-candy.

The only thing I still find wonky with the physics is the way the game likes to spin the car out any time you mildly brush the wall. The wonky bit to it is it always spins it towards the wall, rather than bouncing it back towards the track. The nice thing is if you keep the car off the walls to begin with, it's not a problem.

Also Formula One Championship Manager for the PS3 is another really good racing SIM. Between playing it and FM2 I have really high hopes for the racing genre on consoles for the future.

[Lonnie]

I'm currently boxing my 360 up to ship to repair. I just got it back a few weeks ago from the red ring of death repair, and now it just locks up in most games. Especially Forza 2. As soon as it gets back I'll join you guys anytime.

xbl: Darkjoker

[red95vette]

We got the room going last night for about 3 hours and had some great racing -- Chevy Cobalts first then Honda Civics LOL. It's amazing how intense the racing can be when you run "slow" cars.

The racing was very clean too and all night I think we only had about 5 or 6 car-to-car wrecks, pretty incredibly.

I've got about 30 people on the list (but we could always use more) and I think I friend'ed everyone here that was interested if I had your XBL GT. I apologize if I missed anyone -- just add me if I did.

GT= itshimagain

[Alan T]

I've played this game a few times this week (rented it from blockbuster), so probably have about 3 hours of playtime in so far. I am thinking about buying it though, or asking for it for father's day. Are people still playing this together online? Or was it a one or a couple time thing only?

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've played this game a few times this week (rented it from blockbuster), so probably have about 3 hours of playtime in so far. I am thinking about buying it though, or asking for it for father's day. Are people still playing this together online? Or was it a one or a couple time thing only?

Earlier this week we had a good run, ItsHimAgain usually sends out invites and we all join up in the lobby. I brought one of my pals into the lobby too. I thought it was pretty enjoyable, and I'm looking forward to another run or so sometime over the weekend.

[TroyF]

It sounds fun, but there is no way I'd be able to do it. My driving just sucks and even with the aides on, I'd probably be playing demolition car derby in the turns. (Understand, I do this even when I'm not trying)

[red95vette]

I've been busy this week, so haven't tried to launch the room. But, I'll probably try later tonight and throughout the day tomorrow if I can wrestle the controller away from the wife (she's on a viva pinata addiction lately!)

Hi Alan,

Yeah definitely send me a friend request at "itshimagain" and I'll invite you if you're online when I set up the room. We can always use more drivers. I have something like 35 on the list now, but still its hard to find enough online at once (and interested in Forza at the time). Still, I've run the room 4 times now for 2-3 hours at a time, and each time was a blast.

Hukarez,

Which gamer was your friend? It wasn't boltman was it? LOL. Have your buddy add me if he wants to be on the regular list as well. I usually only leave 2 spots in the room open to outsiders.

Troy,

As Huk would attest, we had the full spectrum of driver skills last time. It's not as bad as you might think as I usually pick D or C class cars to keep things a bit slower. With practice you'd be avoiding wrecks in no time and no one gets upset over fender benders as long as we know they're not being caused on purpose. We run 10 lap races, so it's (usually) not as hairy going into the first turn as it is on shorter runs.

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by red95vette

Hukarez,

Which gamer was your friend? It wasn't boltman was it? LOL. Have your buddy add me if he wants to be on the regular list as well. I usually only leave 2 spots in the room open to outsiders.

It was nunchuknorris!

[DanGarion]

I race clean as long as I'm in front . When there is traffic around they get in my way and hit me!

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm looking forward to joining the MP racing tomorrow if the room is up.

[Alan T]

What time tommorrow are you all planning on doing it roughly? I only get a short period of time to play usually, so can try to be around then.

[red95vette]

Sorry didn't get to make it on last night. Was on this morning, but no one really around. I'm going to do some Forza again in about 1/2 hour (4:00-4:30 CDT) and will probably be on for at least 2-3 hours and will try to get the room going again then if enough guys are online.

[DanGarion]

I'm really loving playing career mode in this game. Reminds me so much of my old GT days on my PS1 and 2.

[Alan T]

I added you to my friendlist on Xbox today (I'm Dairnir) so if you see me on, invite me in to play.

[red95vette]

We got a pretty good session going Sunday although connection issues caused a few people to keep getting dropped for some reason. That's the first time I've experienced that so hopefully it does not become a regular occurence.

I may try to get a session going later tonight if anyone happens to be interested. Not sure exactly what time... probably 6:00-7:00ish CDT as I can't go too late tonight. Hope to see some of you online tonight.

"itshimagain"

[Anthony]

i got xbox 360 last nite and picked this game up. i haven't played video games in about a year and a half and i completely sucked. i got good by about my 8th race. came in 3rd. but i'm not good. i don't have xbox live yet, i'll wait until next paycheck to pick it up. i'll get in on your racing session then cuz in about a week or so i should be decent enough to compete with other people.