OT: What Did Sammy Do? - Page 5

Cuckoo · 06-05-2003, 12:21 PM

So does Fritz

SirFozzie · 06-05-2003, 01:20 PM

Well, another dagger in the "All his homeruns are tainted because of the corked bat". The Hall Of Fame tested the five bats from 96 and other historic homeruns that Sammy had donated, all came up clean.

Score: 1 tainted bat, over 100 untainted bats (he's broken at least 20 bats in the last six years hasn't he?

While I still think he should get a 5-7 game suspension (rules are rules), I certainly hope we can get back to BASEBALL

(besides, it should have happened against the yankees. Shattered bat to the mound, Clemens picks it up, tries to toss it at Sammy, and it ends up in Row 30 where it's found corked, both Sammy and Roger are tossed, Sammy for swinging a corked bat, and Roger for throwing one

Maple Leafs · 06-05-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirFozzie
Well, another dagger in the "All his homeruns are tainted because of the corked bat". The Hall Of Fame tested the five bats from 96 and other historic homeruns that Sammy had donated, all came up clean.

Nah... Clemens would scuff it up first, then toss it to Giambi who would inject it.

Anrhydeddu · 06-05-2003, 02:08 PM

I don't hate the man. What I do hate is the "McGwire/Sosa" pairing. You tell me what record Sosa broke or set in 1998 and then I would agree that he should be mentioned in the same breath as McGwire.

Daimyo · 06-05-2003, 02:24 PM

McGwire never hit 60 HR in three different seasons did he?

EDIT: I think the reason they're paired is that in 1998 it was pretty much wide open for which one would set the record nearly right up until the end. They're not paired for the record itself, but for the chase of that record that they were both pretty equally involved in.

MizzouRah · 06-05-2003, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Well, another dagger in the "All his homeruns are tainted because of the corked bat". The Hall Of Fame tested the five bats from 96 and other historic homeruns that Sammy had donated, all came up clean.

Score: 1 tainted bat, over 100 untainted bats (he's broken at least 20 bats in the last six years hasn't he?

Do you really think MLB really wants to turn up a bunch of corked bats? Especially the ones used in the McGwire/Sosa run to 61? How would that look to fans across the nation if one of his 'historical' bats from 96 turned up with a cork in it?

I'm not totally going conspiracy theory here, but I often wonder.

Todd

pjstp20 · 06-05-2003, 03:09 PM

Alright here is my last few comments on this issue and then I'm done, it's getting tired. As I and many have said before MLB is not gonna say the other bats were corked, even if they were, call me a conspiracy freak or whatever, I just don't think they would. Second, even if he doesn't have more than one corked bat, who cares, fact is he had one. Last time I checked you only take one bat to the plate when you hit, so one is all you need. Finally, this incident brings Sammy's character into question. If he's willing to cheat with something as frivolous as a corked bat who's to say he wouldn't go with more effective cheating techniques that are impossible to catch i.e.) steroids.

daedalus · 06-05-2003, 03:36 PM

With regards to whether or not corking the bat changes anything (and I'm of the opinion that it does) . . . I think Easy Mac brought up a great point: Does it matter? If he did bring up a corked bat, then he knowingly cheated. Isn't that all that matters?

I was watching Baseball Tonight on and Peter Gammons brought up something: Sosa said he uses the corked bat as an show "for the fans" but according to Gammons, fans don't see batting practice at home. I don't go to games very much, is this true?

Neuqua · 06-05-2003, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
I don't hate the man. What I do hate is the "McGwire/Sosa" pairing. You tell me what record Sosa broke or set in 1998 and then I would agree that he should be mentioned in the same breath as McGwire.

Sosa and McGwire were neck and neck that year until the final few days or so when McGwire went crazy and knocked out like 4 HRs in his last 2 games or something. And it was Sammy who took home the MVP award from that year.

Basically, as I said before with all these bats turning up 'clean' I'm going to go ahead and take Sammy's word in this situation. I don't buy that if it were any regular schmuck then this would all be for naught and the guy would be guilty. Sammy does have the reputation of being one of the game's good guys, if say, Edgar Martinez was in the same situation as Sammy don't you think people would give Edgar respect?

Sammy does not have a history of being a bad guy or bad teammate. You can see the way he plays (especially here in Chicago) that he truly loves playing the game. He loves his rightfield bleacher fans and they all love him.

Until another (and just one would be good enough) bat turns out 'dirty' then I will be in Sammy's corner. He deserves to be suspended whatever amount of games, definetly, but I'm not going to put an "asterick" around his other 505 HRs, for me there's not enough evidence to do that.

Aylmar · 06-05-2003, 04:26 PM

I agree with the retired pitcher (can't remember who it was) who said that if Sosa did that little hop step against him...he'd bean him the next time he came up to the plate.

On subject, I don't think it matters what the truth is. No amount of "fact-finding" or investigation will convince those people whose minds are already made up. Opinions about baseball are just too deeply engrained one way or another for people to think objectively.

Neuqua · 06-05-2003, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aylmar
No amount of "fact-finding" or investigation will convince those people whose minds are already made up. Opinions about baseball are just too deeply engrained one way or another for people to think objectively.

You are exactly right.

GrantDawg · 06-05-2003, 07:00 PM

I can't believe that people are so stupid that they think Sammy would send a corked bat to the HOF. Then to say that he didn't send corked bats to the HOF PROVES anything is even dumber.

Listen, I like Sammy. I don't have anything against him, at least until this. I do get tired of people, who so obviously cheated, make up stupid excuses and let the lemmings around them defend it. His comments that said he was "innocent" are why I'll never respect the man again. Even if it was a mistake, he is not "innocent." He cheated. And the fact that he can’t admit that suggests to me he has cheated in more than just this.

pjstp20 · 06-05-2003, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrantDawg
I can't believe that people are so stupid that they think Sammy would send a corked bat to the HOF. Then to say that he didn't send corked bats to the HOF PROVES anything is even dumber.

My thoughts exactly, it seems that if people want to believe something they'll latch on to anything to validate those beliefs. The fact that none of his other bats were untampered with proves nothing to me either. Like I said before I don't think Sammy has made a habbit out of using juiced bats, but the lying I cannot stand. Why can't people call a spade a spade? He cheated, but no, were getting media reports on how corked bats do nothing. I have lost all respect for ESPN and MLBaseball. I'm done watching this farce of a sport. As for Sosa's lame excuse: I've learned to expect that from professional athletes who get caught red handed.

clintl · 06-05-2003, 11:20 PM

Actually, I think the fact that corked bats provide little if any advantage (and yes, it is a fact - physics is a hell of lot more reliable and well-established than sabremetrics, and there are people here that think sabremetrics is gospel) makes Sammy look even more stupid than if they really did work. It certainly does nothing to exonerate him.

mckerney · 06-05-2003, 11:25 PM

To me it doesn't matter that all his other bats turned up clean. He only needed one to cheat.

ISiddiqui · 06-05-2003, 11:30 PM

Yep... and of course he might have just had ONE corked bat for times when he felt he really needed it (like bottom of the 9th, or when he's in a slump). It isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

Katon · 06-06-2003, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by clintl
Actually, I think the fact that corked bats provide little if any advantage (and yes, it is a fact - physics is a hell of lot more reliable and well-established than sabremetrics, and there are people here that think sabremetrics is gospel) makes Sammy look even more stupid than if they really did work. It certainly does nothing to exonerate him.

True enough. Even if corking his bat doesn't help a bit - and the laws of physics are, as a rule, slightly more reliable than baseball common wisdom - he still thought it did and he still deserves the full penalty. On the other hand, I don't think that there should be an asterisk behind his historical achievements because of this for two reasons. First, we have no evidence that Sosa had been cheating in this way long-term. Granted, none of the evidence that he hadn't was unfakeable, but 'innocent until proven guilty' is a basic principle of justice. Second, even if he was corking his bat long-term, it had no effect. He hit precisely the same number of home runs and precisely the same number of hits that he would have otherwise.

KWhit · 06-06-2003, 10:03 AM

Is this the same physics book that says that there's no such thing as a curve ball?

Craptacular · 06-06-2003, 01:12 PM

8-game suspension for Sammy, and he appeals it.

Just another reason why I hate MLB. Here's a guy who admits he fucked up, and is waiting for the punishment. Then they hand down the suspension following previous precedent, and he still appeals. Why can't they hold the appeal NOW?? Instead, he gets to dictate when he wants to serve the suspension, and will be able to play against the Yankees. Keep the BS flowing guys.

edit to add link to ESPN article

ISiddiqui · 06-06-2003, 01:20 PM

I totally agree, Craptacular.... how do you APPEAL something that you admitted you are wrong on?!

Daimyo · 06-06-2003, 01:23 PM

Did anyone seriously think MLB would let him miss the Yankees series?

Craptacular · 06-06-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
Did anyone seriously think MLB would let him miss the Yankees series?

Of course not, and that's another reason why MLB is such a pathetic joke.

cuervo72 · 06-06-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
Did anyone seriously think MLB would let him miss the Yankees series?

I think Steinbrenner should complain that this is putting the Yankees at an unfair competitive disadvantage compared to Baltimore and Toronto, the next two series for the Cubs.

Maple Leafs · 06-06-2003, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cuervo72
I think Steinbrenner should complain that this is putting the Yankees at an unfair competitive disadvantage compared to Baltimore and Toronto, the next two series for the Cubs.

This is actually a bitter pill for the Blue Jays, at least in terms of marketing. Sammy's visit was one of the few potential big events they had coming this year.

cuervo72 · 06-06-2003, 02:10 PM

I'd say the Orioles probably have the same opinion on it the Blue Jays do, now that you mention it.

Easy Mac · 06-06-2003, 02:13 PM

I think this once again proves MLB in its current form is not a real sport, because no one around there has any balls.

sterlingice · 06-06-2003, 03:24 PM

Are you trying to tell me that if NBC (now ABC) had a huge Christmas Day game between the Lakers and Spurs and Shaq got suspended in the previous game, the NBA wouldn't all but beg him to appeal his suspension so he sat out the next game against the Nuggets? Or how about if Ricky Williams was suspended right before Monday Night Football- he would conveniently be suspended for the next game.

More from the "you already know where you stand and now you're just looking for more ammo" files.

SI

clintl · 06-06-2003, 04:00 PM

Every sport allows appeals, and Sosa certainly is well within his rights to argue that the suspension is too harsh. Sometimes they do get reduced by a game or two on appeal.

Craptacular · 06-06-2003, 04:48 PM

I have no problem with allowing an appeal, although Sammy's case is a joke. Why can't the appeal be heard today? In a case like this, there's really no evidence that has to be prepared, there's no reason it has to be done in person, and there's a good amount of precedent. Is Bob DuPay or Watson or Bud or whoever hears the appeal in surgery for the next week or what?

sterlingice · 06-06-2003, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craptacular
I have no problem with allowing an appeal, although Sammy's case is a joke. Why can't the appeal be heard today? In a case like this, there's really no evidence that has to be prepared, there's no reason it has to be done in person, and there's a good amount of precedent. Is Bob DuPay or Watson or Bud or whoever hears the appeal in surgery for the next week or what?

This appeal cannot be heard today because they would lose tons of bucks for the Yankees-Cubs series. It's that simple. If you want to condemn baseball for that, condemn all the other sports because they would all do the same. I know you understand this: enough with the "darn hypocrites" posts already.

No, it's not right, but it's business as usual. All sports would do the same especially with a major network (Fox, in this case), breathing down their back.

SI

clintl · 06-06-2003, 09:02 PM

It is pretty much standard practice that the appeal doesn't get heard until a few days later. There's nothing special about Sammy's case in this respect. Usually, they wait until travel schedules between league officials and the player's team can get synched up. It's not like this is such an emergency that Watson or DuPuy or Selig need to drop everything else they're doing and get on the next plane to Chicago.

Logan · 06-06-2003, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KWhit
Is this the same physics book that says that there's no such thing as a curve ball?

Don't think its the same guy who claims that a curveball is nothing but an optical illusion. Hey buddy...walk your ass up to the plate and try and hit that "illusion."

EDIT: Reading how some people believe Sosa's reasoning honestly sickens me. If you think for a second that ANY baseball player would ever take the wrong bat up to the plate with him, you have serious issues. Everybody has a "gamer" that they can pick out of a lineup of 4000 bats that look identical.

Ever see a hitter take a big cut, miss, and the bat flies out of his hands and into the first row behind the dugout? What happens? The fan doesn't keep that bat. The dugout will throw another one of the player's bats up on top of the dugout, the fan will take that bat, and give up the gamer.

I can only imagine the laughter that ensued in MLB clubhouses when they heard the excuse.

KWhit · 06-06-2003, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Logan
Don't think its the same guy who claims that a curveball is nothing but an optical illusion. Hey buddy...walk your ass up to the plate and try and hit that "illusion."

Yeah, I did a little bit of research and it is not the same book.

pjstp20 · 06-06-2003, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clintl
It is pretty much standard practice that the appeal doesn't get heard until a few days later. There's nothing special about Sammy's case in this respect. Usually, they wait until travel schedules between league officials and the player's team can get synched up. It's not like this is such an emergency that Watson or DuPuy or Selig need to drop everything else they're doing and get on the next plane to Chicago.

Are you really naive enough to believe this? Now I can see why you posted what you did in the other thread.

pjstp20 · 06-06-2003, 10:55 PM

Dola- Let me clarify, if you think Selig et. al. didn't drop a huge load in their pants when they realized how big this was gonna be, your mistaken. There's no such thing as standard practice in this situation because it's never happened to a player this big.

Chief Rum · 06-06-2003, 11:28 PM

pjstp20: If you're referring to the higher ups not really making a big deal about the situation, as clintl subits, then I agree that's probably not at all true.

However, he is right on that appeals are often heard days after the appeal is filed. In fact, I can't remember the last time an appeal was heard within three days of an appeal. I understand what you're saying about this not being just any situation, but when it comes down to the sheer matter of the appeal process, that HAS happened before, and that IS standard practice.

In fact, clintl's reasoning (that the team and league officials--and note this also includes the Player's Association) that all sides need to set up being in the same place at the same time is spot on with what I have always heard about such delays in the past.

Not to say baseball didn't breathe a sigh of relief that Sosa would be available for all the Yankees games, of course, but I don't think this part of this whole fiasco is nearly the conspiracy you seem to want it to be.

Chief Rum

clintl · 06-06-2003, 11:46 PM

I didn't mean to imply that they don't think it's a big deal. Of course they do. I just meant that there's no reason for them to expedite this particular appeal, when a normal appeal usually isn't heard for several days.

clintl · 06-06-2003, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pjstp20
Dola- Let me clarify, if you think Selig et. al. didn't drop a huge load in their pants when they realized how big this was gonna be, your mistaken. There's no such thing as standard practice in this situation because it's never happened to a player this big.

FWIW, you're wrong about this, too. Maybe not for the particular offense of bat-corking, but certainly for other things. Sosa is not the first HOF-caliber player to be suspended.

pjstp20 · 06-07-2003, 09:38 AM

No I think the appeals process has been pretty standard, but the way this has been dealt with has been vastly different than the past. As for my conspiracy theory, I know it's a bit much, but I still think it's true. If you look at the way baseball is dealing with steroids in their sport as compared to others it makes you scratch your head. Also look at the number of guys who have hit 50+ HRs since the strike of 94 compared to the history of the game and youll see a ridiculous increase. Its not beyond the realm of belief that MLB wants big numbers and I think they'll do anything to get them because it brings fan interest.

clintl · 06-07-2003, 10:18 AM

Please elaborate why you think that. I can't see any difference between the way MLB has dealt with this, and the way they have dealt with any other recent suspension.

As far as steroid testing goes, we all know the real answer to that - the MLBPA is powerful enough to keep testing out of the collective bargaining agreement. There have been been a lot of different theories about why offense has gone up recently, but no one has found one single reason, and my own opinion is that it is a combination of several.

pjstp20 · 06-07-2003, 05:33 PM

I think that because (in my mind) people (media) were trying to make excuses for Sosa, as well as trying to state how little bat corking works. If Joe .280 hitter with 125 career homers in 10 years got caught with a cork we wouldn't see that.

As far as MLB goes I'm not sure if they'd analyze all the bats if it was a lesser player, but thats just a hunch, I'm to lazy to do research on how this incidence has been handled in the past. As far as suspensions and appeal that's been pretty much the same. The bottom line to me was there was a bigger sense of urgency in making sure the credibility of baseball didn't take a hit. But, alas I have no direct proof so take it for what it's worth. That being said I will now lay this to rest...........maybe.

Craptacular · 06-09-2003, 08:50 AM

Why again does the appeal need to take place in person? Do we have millionaire and billionaire people and organizations that can't afford a phone call or a videoconference? Before anyone tries to put more words into my mouth, this goes for any sports that have ridiculous appeals processes and allow the players to dictate their suspensions.

clintl · 06-09-2003, 10:26 AM

If you got suspended from your job, would you want the appeal to be handled by videoconference?

Easy Mac · 06-09-2003, 10:31 AM

I'm pretty sure your job doesn't wait a week to enforce your suspension because they are spineless.

GrantDawg · 06-09-2003, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Easy Mac
I'm pretty sure your job doesn't wait a week to enforce your suspension because they are spineless.

Or they are not under control of a powerfull workers union which dictates the rules of when/if you can be suspended.

06-05-2003, 01:20 PM	#202
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Well, another dagger in the "All his homeruns are tainted because of the corked bat". The Hall Of Fame tested the five bats from 96 and other historic homeruns that Sammy had donated, all came up clean. Score: 1 tainted bat, over 100 untainted bats (he's broken at least 20 bats in the last six years hasn't he? While I still think he should get a 5-7 game suspension (rules are rules), I certainly hope we can get back to BASEBALL (besides, it should have happened against the yankees. Shattered bat to the mound, Clemens picks it up, tries to toss it at Sammy, and it ends up in Row 30 where it's found corked, both Sammy and Roger are tossed, Sammy for swinging a corked bat, and Roger for throwing one __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

06-05-2003, 02:24 PM	#205
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	McGwire never hit 60 HR in three different seasons did he? EDIT: I think the reason they're paired is that in 1998 it was pretty much wide open for which one would set the record nearly right up until the end. They're not paired for the record itself, but for the chase of that record that they were both pretty equally involved in. Last edited by Daimyo : 06-05-2003 at 02:25 PM.

06-05-2003, 04:26 PM	#210
Aylmar High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Los Angeles	I agree with the retired pitcher (can't remember who it was) who said that if Sosa did that little hop step against him...he'd bean him the next time he came up to the plate. On subject, I don't think it matters what the truth is. No amount of "fact-finding" or investigation will convince those people whose minds are already made up. Opinions about baseball are just too deeply engrained one way or another for people to think objectively. __________________ "At its best, football is still football, an amalgam of thought and violence, chess with broken bones and shredded ligaments." -- Dave Kindred

06-05-2003, 11:30 PM	#216
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Yep... and of course he might have just had ONE corked bat for times when he felt he really needed it (like bottom of the 9th, or when he's in a slump). It isn't beyond the realm of possibility. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

06-06-2003, 01:12 PM	#219
Craptacular College Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Mad City, WI	8-game suspension for Sammy, and he appeals it. Just another reason why I hate MLB. Here's a guy who admits he fucked up, and is waiting for the punishment. Then they hand down the suspension following previous precedent, and he still appeals. Why can't they hold the appeal NOW?? Instead, he gets to dictate when he wants to serve the suspension, and will be able to play against the Yankees. Keep the BS flowing guys. edit to add link to ESPN article Last edited by Craptacular : 06-06-2003 at 01:15 PM.

06-05-2003, 12:21 PM	#201
Cuckoo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edmond, OK	So does Fritz

06-05-2003, 02:08 PM	#204
Anrhydeddu Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Oct 2002	I don't hate the man. What I do hate is the "McGwire/Sosa" pairing. You tell me what record Sosa broke or set in 1998 and then I would agree that he should be mentioned in the same breath as McGwire.

06-05-2003, 03:09 PM	#207
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	Alright here is my last few comments on this issue and then I'm done, it's getting tired. As I and many have said before MLB is not gonna say the other bats were corked, even if they were, call me a conspiracy freak or whatever, I just don't think they would. Second, even if he doesn't have more than one corked bat, who cares, fact is he had one. Last time I checked you only take one bat to the plate when you hit, so one is all you need. Finally, this incident brings Sammy's character into question. If he's willing to cheat with something as frivolous as a corked bat who's to say he wouldn't go with more effective cheating techniques that are impossible to catch i.e.) steroids.

06-05-2003, 03:36 PM	#208
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	With regards to whether or not corking the bat changes anything (and I'm of the opinion that it does) . . . I think Easy Mac brought up a great point: Does it matter? If he did bring up a corked bat, then he knowingly cheated. Isn't that all that matters? I was watching Baseball Tonight on and Peter Gammons brought up something: Sosa said he uses the corked bat as an show "for the fans" but according to Gammons, fans don't see batting practice at home. I don't go to games very much, is this true?

06-05-2003, 07:00 PM	#212
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	I can't believe that people are so stupid that they think Sammy would send a corked bat to the HOF. Then to say that he didn't send corked bats to the HOF PROVES anything is even dumber. Listen, I like Sammy. I don't have anything against him, at least until this. I do get tired of people, who so obviously cheated, make up stupid excuses and let the lemmings around them defend it. His comments that said he was "innocent" are why I'll never respect the man again. Even if it was a mistake, he is not "innocent." He cheated. And the fact that he can’t admit that suggests to me he has cheated in more than just this.

06-05-2003, 11:20 PM	#214
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	Actually, I think the fact that corked bats provide little if any advantage (and yes, it is a fact - physics is a hell of lot more reliable and well-established than sabremetrics, and there are people here that think sabremetrics is gospel) makes Sammy look even more stupid than if they really did work. It certainly does nothing to exonerate him.

06-05-2003, 11:25 PM	#215
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	To me it doesn't matter that all his other bats turned up clean. He only needed one to cheat.

06-06-2003, 10:03 AM	#218
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Is this the same physics book that says that there's no such thing as a curve ball?

06-06-2003, 01:20 PM	#220
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	I totally agree, Craptacular.... how do you APPEAL something that you admitted you are wrong on?! __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

06-06-2003, 01:23 PM	#221
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	Did anyone seriously think MLB would let him miss the Yankees series?

06-06-2003, 02:10 PM	#225
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	I'd say the Orioles probably have the same opinion on it the Blue Jays do, now that you mention it. __________________ null

06-06-2003, 02:13 PM	#226
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	I think this once again proves MLB in its current form is not a real sport, because no one around there has any balls.

06-06-2003, 03:24 PM	#227
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Are you trying to tell me that if NBC (now ABC) had a huge Christmas Day game between the Lakers and Spurs and Shaq got suspended in the previous game, the NBA wouldn't all but beg him to appeal his suspension so he sat out the next game against the Nuggets? Or how about if Ricky Williams was suspended right before Monday Night Football- he would conveniently be suspended for the next game. More from the "you already know where you stand and now you're just looking for more ammo" files. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

06-06-2003, 04:00 PM	#228
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	Every sport allows appeals, and Sosa certainly is well within his rights to argue that the suspension is too harsh. Sometimes they do get reduced by a game or two on appeal.

06-06-2003, 04:48 PM	#229
Craptacular College Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Mad City, WI	I have no problem with allowing an appeal, although Sammy's case is a joke. Why can't the appeal be heard today? In a case like this, there's really no evidence that has to be prepared, there's no reason it has to be done in person, and there's a good amount of precedent. Is Bob DuPay or Watson or Bud or whoever hears the appeal in surgery for the next week or what?

06-06-2003, 09:02 PM	#231
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	It is pretty much standard practice that the appeal doesn't get heard until a few days later. There's nothing special about Sammy's case in this respect. Usually, they wait until travel schedules between league officials and the player's team can get synched up. It's not like this is such an emergency that Watson or DuPuy or Selig need to drop everything else they're doing and get on the next plane to Chicago.

06-06-2003, 10:55 PM	#235
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	Dola- Let me clarify, if you think Selig et. al. didn't drop a huge load in their pants when they realized how big this was gonna be, your mistaken. There's no such thing as standard practice in this situation because it's never happened to a player this big. Last edited by pjstp20 : 06-06-2003 at 10:56 PM.

06-06-2003, 11:28 PM	#236
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	pjstp20: If you're referring to the higher ups not really making a big deal about the situation, as clintl subits, then I agree that's probably not at all true. However, he is right on that appeals are often heard days after the appeal is filed. In fact, I can't remember the last time an appeal was heard within three days of an appeal. I understand what you're saying about this not being just any situation, but when it comes down to the sheer matter of the appeal process, that HAS happened before, and that IS standard practice. In fact, clintl's reasoning (that the team and league officials--and note this also includes the Player's Association) that all sides need to set up being in the same place at the same time is spot on with what I have always heard about such delays in the past. Not to say baseball didn't breathe a sigh of relief that Sosa would be available for all the Yankees games, of course, but I don't think this part of this whole fiasco is nearly the conspiracy you seem to want it to be. Chief Rum __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

06-06-2003, 11:46 PM	#237
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	I didn't mean to imply that they don't think it's a big deal. Of course they do. I just meant that there's no reason for them to expedite this particular appeal, when a normal appeal usually isn't heard for several days.

06-07-2003, 09:38 AM	#239
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	No I think the appeals process has been pretty standard, but the way this has been dealt with has been vastly different than the past. As for my conspiracy theory, I know it's a bit much, but I still think it's true. If you look at the way baseball is dealing with steroids in their sport as compared to others it makes you scratch your head. Also look at the number of guys who have hit 50+ HRs since the strike of 94 compared to the history of the game and youll see a ridiculous increase. Its not beyond the realm of belief that MLB wants big numbers and I think they'll do anything to get them because it brings fan interest.

06-07-2003, 10:18 AM	#240
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	Please elaborate why you think that. I can't see any difference between the way MLB has dealt with this, and the way they have dealt with any other recent suspension. As far as steroid testing goes, we all know the real answer to that - the MLBPA is powerful enough to keep testing out of the collective bargaining agreement. There have been been a lot of different theories about why offense has gone up recently, but no one has found one single reason, and my own opinion is that it is a combination of several. Last edited by clintl : 06-07-2003 at 10:39 AM.

06-07-2003, 05:33 PM	#241
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	I think that because (in my mind) people (media) were trying to make excuses for Sosa, as well as trying to state how little bat corking works. If Joe .280 hitter with 125 career homers in 10 years got caught with a cork we wouldn't see that. As far as MLB goes I'm not sure if they'd analyze all the bats if it was a lesser player, but thats just a hunch, I'm to lazy to do research on how this incidence has been handled in the past. As far as suspensions and appeal that's been pretty much the same. The bottom line to me was there was a bigger sense of urgency in making sure the credibility of baseball didn't take a hit. But, alas I have no direct proof so take it for what it's worth. That being said I will now lay this to rest...........maybe.

06-09-2003, 08:50 AM	#242
Craptacular College Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Mad City, WI	Why again does the appeal need to take place in person? Do we have millionaire and billionaire people and organizations that can't afford a phone call or a videoconference? Before anyone tries to put more words into my mouth, this goes for any sports that have ridiculous appeals processes and allow the players to dictate their suspensions.

06-09-2003, 10:26 AM	#243
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	If you got suspended from your job, would you want the appeal to be handled by videoconference?

06-09-2003, 10:31 AM	#244
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	I'm pretty sure your job doesn't wait a week to enforce your suspension because they are spineless.

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