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08-15-2007, 04:53 PM
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#1 | ||
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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Unlikely Rookie of the Year - The Eddie England Saga
My scout is rated "good" for DL, but I sure missed this guy.
  
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand Last edited by Senator : 08-18-2007 at 03:21 PM. |
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08-15-2007, 05:16 PM
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#2 |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB
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Yikes...surprised he even started for an AI team. I'm assuming you are not running the Jags...correct?
Last edited by johnnyshaka : 08-16-2007 at 10:07 AM. |
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08-15-2007, 05:30 PM
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#3 |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Budapest
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be sure to post his ratings next year
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08-15-2007, 05:53 PM
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#4 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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No, I am the Cowboys.
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-15-2007, 08:54 PM
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#5 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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That's freaking cool!
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08-15-2007, 09:01 PM
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#6 |
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n00b
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Product of the system? lol
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08-15-2007, 11:46 PM
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#7 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
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What is their LDE like? I bet he's good & teams blocked him with everybody!
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08-16-2007, 12:00 AM
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#8 |
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Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Illinois
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This is very, very odd. How terrible does your roster have to be to have a 10/14 rated starting DE?
Senator, do you by any chance know what his combine scores were like? |
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08-16-2007, 05:42 AM
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#9 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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This is really weird, please update us with his career to see if he ends being a stud.
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08-16-2007, 09:22 AM
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#10 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
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I'm sorry, but it's very disheartening to see a 10/14 guy get 12.5 sacks.
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-- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities |
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08-16-2007, 09:47 AM
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#11 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Far from home
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Quote:
I have to agree with this. How can we evaluate talent if a 10/14 guy performs like this? Sure, it might be a very isolated case, but the mismatch between ratings and performance (never mind throwing in all the other variables that go into performance) in 2k7 makes it very difficult to get a sense of who will actually improve your team. I don't think I would be alone in not even taking a second look at a guy like this coming out of the draft, never mind starting him. |
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08-16-2007, 10:09 AM
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#12 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB
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Quote:
Agreed. |
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08-16-2007, 11:27 AM
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#13 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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I think it's great. This is the first time I've ever seen anything like this and it just looks to me like his ratings haven't gone up yet (which I expect a HUGE spike) and he's probably a diamond in the rough that didn't hack it in college, but for some reason he can play at this level.
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08-16-2007, 11:41 AM
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#14 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB
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Quote:
If his combines support this kind of performance...fine, I agree with you as at least we'd have some way to know to take a flier on this guy but otherwise, I don't know how this could be construed as "great" in any way. Again, without knowing what his combine looked like, how would anybody know to give this guy a shot to start for an entire season except the AI who obviously has more information to work with than we do? |
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08-16-2007, 02:45 PM
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#15 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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Do you happen to know what the rest of the guys on this team's line looked like? Sometimes I'll get a rare 11 or 12 sack season out of a shitty WLB.
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08-16-2007, 03:47 PM
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#16 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Far from home
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Quote:
The difficulty here is the 'for some reason.' How would we or could we figure out what this reason might be? I agree in thinking it would be great if we could have some semblance of a clue as to what this reason might be. Perhaps Senator can shed a bit of light on this, but until we have some notion of how to discern the 'for some reason', I'm disheartened by seeing this. |
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08-16-2007, 07:04 PM
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#17 | |
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lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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I'm actually somewhat happy to see this. Given that ratings/creepers are what they are - it makes me happy to see the AI picking up on these guys. I think a seperate discussion can (and has been) had about whether creepers work in the best way, but the fact that they are what they are I love seeing the AI catch onto one.
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Text Sports Network - Bringing you statistical information for several FOF MP leagues in one convenient site Quote:
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08-16-2007, 08:46 PM
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#18 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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Quote:
Willie Parker had more yards in each of the last 2 NFL seasons than he did for 4 years at North Carolina. It's rare, but it happens. Theoretically he would be the 10/14 type coming out of college, although I suppose he would have had a rediculous 40 time. |
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08-16-2007, 09:40 PM
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#19 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Quote:
I equate this with, "what could have been". The CPU AI took a chance on a rookie FA, made him a starter, and he decided he wanted to play in the NFL. I'd like to hear Jim's evaluation, but I'm led to believe he intended it. |
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08-16-2007, 10:12 PM
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#20 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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Wow, this thread blossomed more than I thought it might.
I did not save any combine numbers or anything like that. Let's take a look at some of the screenshots. Maybe they shed some light. The line sucked, but the LDE was not a stud. He had the same amount of sacks. The LB's were servicable. If you want more info, I will oblige, this seems to be just one of those odd things. When we are ready to move, I will track his career.    
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-17-2007, 08:22 AM
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#21 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
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My concern was not that a 10/14 guy coming out of the draft turned in 12.5 sacks.
My concern is that AFTER turning in 12.5 sacks, he's STILL considered 10/14. Does anybody think Willie Parker was still rated a 10/14 after that playoff run? In the spirit of other recent posts, I give you: Coach: "You sure he sucks?" Scout: "Yes coach, I've seen the tape, and he sucks." Coach: "How'd he get 12.5 sacks?" Scout: "Don't know, but he really, really sucks. He should never have been in the league." Coach: "BUT HE GOT 12.5 SACKS!" Scout: "Yeah, but his technique is lousy, he can't read the QB worth a darn, he tires quickly, and forget stopping the run." Coach: "You're fired!"
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-- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities |
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08-17-2007, 08:29 AM
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#22 | |
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Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
If you don't sign him to your team and play him until he creeps up into at least the high 20s current, it's very unlikely that he'll have a career to track. Once Jax can afford it, they'll sign a higher-rated DE. In all likelihood, we'll never hear from England on an AI team again. *shurg*
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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08-17-2007, 10:49 AM
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#23 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: calgary, AB
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Quote:
My thoughts exactly. |
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08-17-2007, 11:12 AM
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#24 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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Quote:
That is more anti-realism, as not any NFL team would replace a 12 sacks DE without a good reason. As some of you said, maybe the visible ratings should be masked by the stats in some way, so a guy who get's 12 sacks should look like a great player to every scout. Maybe also tie ratings development to stats like OOTP does, so if a player has a monster season like that, it means that he learned well how to play the game, so his rattings should boost for the next season.
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08-17-2007, 12:08 PM
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#25 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
I dunno, John Kitna keeps putting up 4500 yard seasons, and nobody thinks hes all that great. Sometimes guys fit the system well. Sometimes mediocre players have great years...... If he starts again, and puts up another 12+ sack, 20 hurry season, and his ratings dont drastically change, then I agree with you. |
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08-17-2007, 12:23 PM
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#26 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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Quote:
But Kitna keeps playing in the NFL and has for a while, while this DE won't as soon as his team can afford a replacement as Skydog said. Even if he is not a great player, he is not a garbage looking one (like the guy in this thread). I would say Kitna is more of a 40's or 50's rating guy in FOF ratings, not a 10's one. Agree with you about being only a season of stats, i would like to get updates about his career.
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08-17-2007, 12:36 PM
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#27 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
What are you talking about.... guys like Kitna, Joey Harrington, etc, keep getting replaced as soon as the team finds a better player. Theres no way in heck that Kitna is a 50. |
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08-17-2007, 12:49 PM
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#28 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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Update on the Eddie "The Eagle" England.
Tough draft day for Eddie, as Jacksonville goes shopping for a replacement. 
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-17-2007, 12:52 PM
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#29 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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No room for Eddie on the Jaguars roster.
 That's ok, Eddie, we see something in you. 
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-17-2007, 12:54 PM
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#30 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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My scout demands we make the call, and we play a game of catch and release with Eddie until he tires of it.
2019 becomes a lost season for the rookie of the year. 
__________________
"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-17-2007, 12:54 PM
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#31 | |
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Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
__________________
The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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08-17-2007, 12:57 PM
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#32 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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I fire my scout, I think he is an idiot and I take over the roster.
I sign Eddie in free agency of 2020, promising him a chance to make a contribution.  As the season ends, he plays mop up duty in 2020.  
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-17-2007, 01:10 PM
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#33 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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Quote:
But Kitna has been playing for 11 season, or as starter or as backup, while this DE won't get playing time or get signed by any team anymore, that is the big difference. Real GM's keep those role players around as they showed that they can produce, while AI gm's in FOF seems to only have in account the players ratings and no stats, at least looking at this example. My point and i can't see how you keep discussing it, is that there is no way in real life that a 12 sacks DE would be without team for a full season after his 12 sacks one. If not kept by his team, he would have been signed by any other one, or as starter or at least as backup. Also after his monster 12 sacks season, not any scout would say that he is complete garbage, if not praised, he would at least be look as an average team player (and a 10 rated one is crap in FOF, not even under average).
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08-17-2007, 01:14 PM
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#34 | ||||||||||||||||||
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Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Example of what I mean...
 The player above was drafted 1(4) by an AI team, then cut the following year. In a "normal" sim, he never played a single down before retiring. I then reloaded, picked him up, signed him to my team, stuck him in the lineup long enough to develop him to the point where AI teams would sign him, then cut him, and he was good enough to win an MVP Award with an AI team. His max scouted ratings were 52/52, but I believe he was quite a bit better than that. The game could use difficulty levels something like this...
At the hardest level, have the AI teams see all players exactly as they are, and make finances a little more difficult, and we'd have a *much* more fun and challenging SP experience.
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! Last edited by Ben E Lou : 08-18-2007 at 04:27 AM. |
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08-17-2007, 01:43 PM
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#35 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Poor Eddie and kind of taints my love for the FOF engine. The game AI should have updated his ratings and gave him another year as a starter, I would have.
I would love to hear Jim's insight on this thread. |
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08-17-2007, 02:05 PM
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#36 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
I've had CBs put up 10 sack seasons. You play enough seasons and wierd stuff happens. You flip a coin enough times and eventually its gonna come up tails 12 times in a row. I think what SkyDog is pointing out is a completely different issue, and a much more pressing one. |
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08-17-2007, 02:09 PM
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#37 | |
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Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
Right. If he was any good, he would have put up 12 sacks in the 73 plays he participated in. Duh. *shurg*
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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08-17-2007, 02:10 PM
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#38 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Quote:
beat me to it...  |
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08-17-2007, 02:11 PM
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#39 |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB
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Hold on...he didn't even start a single game and only saw action during 38 passing plays...the equivalent of about one game...so that would be an average of one sack per game if he started every week...I'd say that's pretty damn good.
EDIT: Beat me as well...DAMNIT!! Last edited by johnnyshaka : 08-17-2007 at 02:12 PM. |
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08-17-2007, 02:43 PM
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#40 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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Senator, if you have the game saved before the season started, can you please set him as starter and sim again to see his stats when playing most of the time?
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08-17-2007, 02:44 PM
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#41 |
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n00b
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I like how Jacksonville drafted a DE with 0 pass rush technique in the middle of the 2nd round to replace Eddie England. He will probably get a dozen sacks too, and still have 0 pass rush technique.
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08-17-2007, 04:18 PM
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#42 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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My interest has now perked.
I decided to start Eddie for the 2022 season. How about this line from game 5. Game MVP: Eddie England, Dallas Cowboys DE Eddie England 6tackles 1 assist 3.5 sacks 25RP 37 PP
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-17-2007, 04:20 PM
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#43 | |
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Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
Shocker. Coach: "You sure he sucks?" Scout: "Yes coach, I've seen the tape, and he sucks." *shurg*
__________________
The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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08-17-2007, 04:29 PM
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#44 |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Budapest
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Think about Ogunleye. After going undrafted he spends a year on the Dolfins' taxi squad. Then he puts up 9.5 sacks. Then 15. Two productive years and that's enough for the Bears to throw 33 million at him.
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08-17-2007, 04:29 PM
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#45 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue
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Quote:
I know it was mentioned before, but I love that this is happening. The only problem we have is that the scouted rating doesn't change over the course of his success at the position. And I don't have a problem with how large or small the incremental gain is. It would just be neat to see how the scout now views talent based on success on the field and that is not currently happening.
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"I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew |
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08-17-2007, 04:36 PM
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#46 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue
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So to rephrase that, I am happy that you can find a hidden gem like this, but I am disappointed with how he is scouted in the future, since it is pointed out that AI teams makes decisions based off those scouted ratings and not the stats.
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"I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew |
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08-17-2007, 04:43 PM
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#47 |
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FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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I have never been this baflled in FOF before. I started him and let's see how he did.
 
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"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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08-17-2007, 05:18 PM
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#48 |
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lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: sans pants
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I think folks' first mistake is trying to frame this in professional football terms. This is an FOF peculiarity all the way...
SkyDog showed that plenty of creepers play way above their ratings in one of his recent studies. Add that to how FOF assigns stats after a play is over (ie. group ratings are aggregated, outcomes are determined, stats are doled out) and it isn't a huge surprise. I would bet a billion GindinBucks that this guy was a combine stud.
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Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com |
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08-17-2007, 05:20 PM
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#49 | |
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College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
Fixed |
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08-17-2007, 05:39 PM
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#50 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB
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Quote:
Yes he did. But if this guy is a creeper, when is he going to start creeping? He's averaging nearly a sack a start and he's only 14/14...that's just silly. About Ogunleye...yeah, he slid under the radar for a couple of years but he eventually got paid...as he should. Eddie England was instead cut and resigned to the league minimum after winning DROY. Again, that's just silly. |
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