Werewolf LIII -- Boo! (GAME OVER!) - Page 7

ntndeacon · 08-30-2007, 10:54 PM

As the night breaks, and each of you remember the night of terror that has just ended, you notice that everyone has returned alive for the first time in a while. Maybe the spirits have left.

Day 5 has started

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-30-2007, 10:56 PM

Great. A conversion?

Alan T · 08-30-2007, 10:58 PM

Well.. no bodyguard to block, so no night kill only means either the last wolf forgot to submit a night order or a conversion... Since the former really isn't likely, I have to guess its the latter.

My usual stance with conversions is that it really is a bad move to suddenly try to figure out who was converted and start going after the most trusted members. I usually think the best play here is to try to narrow down whom the original wolf was from your previous trust list and once you find him hopefully you have gained new clues to figure out whom the convert was..

Also Ntn, what is the gameplay schedule over the weekend? We sitll playing, or waiting till monday?

Alan T · 08-30-2007, 11:14 PM

Looks like I am the only one around tonight.. so not much to discuss...

I'm sticking with my original thoughts..

Vote Sndvls

I think its pretty safe to assume Passacaglia and Barkeep were good (prior conversion).. That leaves me Jonathan and Sndvls to decide between. I still don't see Jonathan making the move he did as a wolf, so going to side with voting Sndvls today.

There seems to likely have been a conversion, and we'll have to worry about that after we find the first wolf I think..

One other concern now is that there are 5 of us, 3 villagers and 2 wolves.. this means today is a very important vote for us to get right.. if we lynch a villager I think its over for us.

Passacaglia · 08-30-2007, 11:24 PM

Man, if there's been a conversion, we're toast.

Passacaglia · 08-30-2007, 11:31 PM

Anyway, I'm looking at SD as the original wolf, and BK as the convert. I think you're right, Alan, that the convert is harder to figure, since he's been acting good (and less wolfish) the whole time up until now. But I figure BK is the most likely convert choice, since I think he's been cleared by ntn.

SnDvls · 08-30-2007, 11:38 PM

well it seems to me we got played and played pretty well by someone...my guess is the third guy Pass was throwing out there.

I won't be on much tomorrow because of the ASU Football kickoff lunch so I'll do this now.

Vote Alan T

it's pretty clear there is only one wolf left and if he killed someone tonight he would pretty much out himself so the smart play would be to do a no kill and keep everyone thinking...smart play wolf, but your time is running out.

Passacaglia · 08-30-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

well it seems to me we got played and played pretty well by someone...my guess is the third guy Pass was throwing out there.

I won't be on much tomorrow because of the ASU Football kickoff lunch so I'll do this now.

Vote Alan T

it's pretty clear there is only one wolf left and if he killed someone tonight he would pretty much out himself so the smart play would be to do a no kill and keep everyone thinking...smart play wolf, but your time is running out.

SD, I'm not sure I understand. I don't see why not killing would have outed him. Does that thinking only apply if Alan is the wolf? If so, why? Will he decide not to kill tomorrow night, too? I don't see how not killing makes any sense.

Passacaglia · 08-30-2007, 11:43 PM

Sorry, I meant to say I don't see why killing would have outed him.

ntndeacon · 08-30-2007, 11:48 PM

We have a deadline on Friday and Monday at 10 eastern. I know I am gonna be busy during Saturday. FOOTBALL!!!!! so that is the plan

SnDvls · 08-30-2007, 11:49 PM

there is only one wolf left...everyone pretty much has you and/or BK cleared and JE seemes to be trusted or very under the radar...that leaves Alan and I...I know I'm not the wolf so the wolf would choose to kill whom of you, BK or JE since I seemed to have heat/votes on me?

I guess in my book it's pretty clear if any of those three were killed...now it still leaves doubt about who is/isn't a wolf and we villagers continue to pick eachother off.

Passacaglia · 08-30-2007, 11:50 PM

That sounds good. I'm leaving tomorrow morning, and not coming back until Monday evening. I'll have wireless at the hotel, but I'll probably only be able to check in during the evenings and mornings.

Passacaglia · 08-30-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

there is only one wolf left...everyone pretty much has you and/or BK cleared and JE seemes to be trusted or very under the radar...that leaves Alan and I...I know I'm not the wolf so the wolf would choose to kill whom of you, BK or JE since I seemed to have heat/votes on me?

I guess in my book it's pretty clear if any of those three were killed...now it still leaves doubt about who is/isn't a wolf and we villagers continue to pick eachother off.

So let me ask you this -- if you were the wolf, what would you do?

SnDvls · 08-30-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

SD, I'm not sure I understand. I don't see why not killing would have outed him. Does that thinking only apply if Alan is the wolf? If so, why? Will he decide not to kill tomorrow night, too? I don't see how not killing makes any sense.

1) Yes
2) probally, there appears to be no heat/link on him now

I guess it just gives him one more day to try and eliminate the 1:1 ending tiebreaker that gives the villagers the win...whatever that role is...I can't remember it off the top of my head.

SnDvls · 08-30-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So let me ask you this -- if you were the wolf, what would you do?

I would have killed you as I believe you are cleared and pushed that BK wasn't scanned by NTN as his statement seems to alude he's a bad choice, but not totally clear him...leaves some doubt

Passacaglia · 08-30-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I would have killed you as I believe you are cleared and pushed that BK wasn't scanned by NTN as his statement seems to alude he's a bad choice, but not totally clear him...leaves some doubt

So why wouldn't Alan have done that?

SnDvls · 08-30-2007, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So why wouldn't Alan have done that?

he's pretty much said he feels I"m the bad guy so I"m not sure why...when it turns out I'm good he really won't have anywhere to turn...UNLESS there are 2 wolves left then they are playing for the 2-2 split and hoping to eliminate the tie breaker cast member role.

Going into today/tonight I did feel there were 2 wolves left...now I'm leaning towards there being only one now.

SnDvls · 08-31-2007, 12:01 AM

basically if there are 2 wolves left I guess their thinking would be lets get the tie breaker villager role to out themself and try and finish this off that way and not do a night kill tonight.(last night)

SnDvls · 08-31-2007, 12:07 AM

NTN or CRIM what are the victory conditions for the wolves? it doesn't say in the rules, but inferes they need an even ratio but if it's 1-1 the "Host" can't be the last villager.

I guess I'm now leaning towards there beign 2 wolves now...they hope I'm lynched today so it's 2-2 and then they could possibly win...need some clarification

Chief Rum · 08-31-2007, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

We have a deadline on Friday and Monday at 10 eastern. I know I am gonna be busy during Saturday. FOOTBALL!!!!! so that is the plan

If ntn wants to run it with no days passing over the weekend, that is his prerogative, as he is running the game right now. That said, path made a suggestion via PM to both of us that suggests me that he intended there to be a Sunday deadline (when he is scheduled to return).

I also personally think allowing a game to go a full three days, especially nearer the end might sap some of the game's momentum. I would recommend a Sunday deadline, but I understand if that doesn't work for ntn on a holiday weekend. I will likely be able to run a Sunday night deadline if needed (although my guess is path will be back).

Anyway, something to think about, ntn.

Chief Rum · 08-31-2007, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

NTN or CRIM what are the victory conditions for the wolves? it doesn't say in the rules, but inferes they need an even ratio but if it's 1-1 the "Host" can't be the last villager.

I guess I'm now leaning towards there beign 2 wolves now...they hope I'm lynched today so it's 2-2 and then they could possibly win...need some clarification

The rules don't state this, nor did our instructions (at least not the ones I received). And as a former wolf, I can also say there was nothing in the original PM about this.

But I would surmise from conventional WW logic and also the presence of the Host in the game, which seems to be directly related to this rule, that path did intend for the WW victory condition to be the normal condition of getting down to even numbers with the villagers. I am sure if we set that in stone now, path would accept that.

Alan T · 08-31-2007, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

1) Yes
2) probally, there appears to be no heat/link on him now

I guess it just gives him one more day to try and eliminate the 1:1 ending tiebreaker that gives the villagers the win...whatever that role is...I can't remember it off the top of my head.

I will give you a hint.. we discussed it at length yesterday.. the 1:1 ending tiebreaker is named the Host, and that would be me.

I really had a rough time debating whether or not to reveal it yesterday, and was planning on doing so if I felt the heat was strong enough to get lynched. I felt yesterday that our best chance to win would be for me to survive both the day and the night without being lynched or having wolf attention. I tried to keep that delicate balance of getting heat from villagers without too much heat to be lynched.. I also tried to keep the wolves off of my back so I wouldn't get night killed.

I did not however count on a conversion. I still think that there was a conversion last night, that its now 3-2 villagers and a wrong lynch here is the end of the game for us. I am going to be pretty busy most of the day today (starting at a 7:50am appointment with my wife's pulminoloigst) and didn't want to risk enough momentum on me and people not being around by the middle of the day when I get back due to it being friday.

Sndvls already has a vote on me (No big suprise), and I figure Barkeep will vote for me yet again (regardless if he is converted or not) and with Pass leaving for the day soon, if he isn't the convert I desperately need him to have his vote not on me before he goes..

I likely will be the night kill tonight, but that matters less than us killing a wolf today to make it 3-1, and it will give the 2 villagers left tommorrow a 50-50 chance on guessing which other player is the wolf..

I think Sndvls is blowing smoke about there having been no night kill last night, I can't fathom at this point in the game any reason why anyone would have not done a kill in this scenerio. If he isn't the wolf, and Jonathan was, why wouldn't Jonathan have killed Passacaglia or Barkeep? Sorry.. I think he is lying to us to try to mislead us.. it seems pretty likely there was a conversion last night.

I am keeping my vote on Sndvls, and I hope you all join me.

Barkeep49 · 08-31-2007, 07:41 AM

I am going to suggest that the wolf simply did not submit their action. I know this will likely set off some alarm bells for people, but given the nature of the games, and the PMs that were revealed, I just don't see conversion as a possibility.

Can someone remind me what play JE made that would garner him trust?

SnDvls · 08-31-2007, 08:54 AM

okay if Alan is the host as he claims then unvote AlanT.

If there is only 1 wolf left then I believe it's JE so Vote JE if there are 2 wolves left then I still believe JE is one of them.

with 5 people left and 2 of them wolves this is how I see them trying to win.
it's 3-2 now they knew yesterday that St. C & I were a villager/villager matchup so they win either way and when one of us turned up good the vote would probally automatically switch to the other player thus allowing them to get to the 2-2 tie and basically the win even with the host left they are assured a win as they have a night kill making it 2-1 wolves and a win.

now....if there is only 1 wolf left it is now 4-1 and they need to lay low...passing a night kill puts doubt out there about a conversion...which I don't believe is in this game and there is nothing in the rules to even get close to inferring or assuming it either. So again they knew it was villager/villager and made the same assumptions hoping to end today at 3-1 and then get a night kill going 2-1 with the host at some point today/tonight/tomorrow outting himself as Alan just did. This would leave a Pass/BK/JE showdown for the victory.

Anyhow those are my thought from the night as I layed in bed last night and the lightbulb went off in my head.

SnDvls · 08-31-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I will give you a hint.. we discussed it at length yesterday.. the 1:1 ending tiebreaker is named the Host, and that would be me.

I really had a rough time debating whether or not to reveal it yesterday, and was planning on doing so if I felt the heat was strong enough to get lynched. I felt yesterday that our best chance to win would be for me to survive both the day and the night without being lynched or having wolf attention. I tried to keep that delicate balance of getting heat from villagers without too much heat to be lynched.. I also tried to keep the wolves off of my back so I wouldn't get night killed.

I did not however count on a conversion. I still think that there was a conversion last night, that its now 3-2 villagers and a wrong lynch here is the end of the game for us. I am going to be pretty busy most of the day today (starting at a 7:50am appointment with my wife's pulminoloigst) and didn't want to risk enough momentum on me and people not being around by the middle of the day when I get back due to it being friday.

Sndvls already has a vote on me (No big suprise), and I figure Barkeep will vote for me yet again (regardless if he is converted or not) and with Pass leaving for the day soon, if he isn't the convert I desperately need him to have his vote not on me before he goes..

I likely will be the night kill tonight, but that matters less than us killing a wolf today to make it 3-1, and it will give the 2 villagers left tommorrow a 50-50 chance on guessing which other player is the wolf..

I think Sndvls is blowing smoke about there having been no night kill last night, I can't fathom at this point in the game any reason why anyone would have not done a kill in this scenerio. If he isn't the wolf, and Jonathan was, why wouldn't Jonathan have killed Passacaglia or Barkeep? Sorry.. I think he is lying to us to try to mislead us.. it seems pretty likely there was a conversion last night.

I am keeping my vote on Sndvls, and I hope you all join me.

you did see where I said I wouldn't do a no night kill right? that's not a mistake I would make...if I was a wolf there would have been a kill last night.

Passacaglia · 08-31-2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

you did see where I said I wouldn't do a no night kill right? that's not a mistake I would make...if I was a wolf there would have been a kill last night.

SD, I'm still not sure what your "intentional no-kill" philosophy is here. So you wouldn't do a night kill, Alan would, JE would? I don't get what the motivation is here. I'd think that, if any of us were the wolf, we'd be perfectly set killing anyone but you -- I figure that you were the only one who could bank on staying alive last night, since you seemed like a popular lynch choice today.

BK, you could be right about the "unintentional no-kill" theory. I mean, it's possible. And it'd be really nice if we were 4-1. But if we're wrong, and there was a conversion, and we're 3-2, then one mistake and we're done. I really think we need to consider who is likely to be converted, and who is likely to have done the conversion (that point might be moot -- I guess it could be that anyone would do the conversion, given the chance).

Passacaglia · 08-31-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I am going to suggest that the wolf simply did not submit their action. I know this will likely set off some alarm bells for people, but given the nature of the games, and the PMs that were revealed, I just don't see conversion as a possibility.

Can someone remind me what play JE made that would garner him trust?

The more I think about this post, the more it makes me think BK was converted.

As for JE, I think everyone is falling in line with Alan's thinking that he wouldn't have caused such a big ruckus the day CR got lynched if he were a wolf. Not much to go on, for sure.

Jonathan Ezarik · 08-31-2007, 10:01 AM

I agree with Barkeep in that I'm not sure that a conversion is possible from looking at the roles path listed for us. Of course, it's possible that path left that part out of the message that he showed us, but I agree with Alan that it's a mistake for us to worry about a conversion right now. We should focus on the one wolf we know is around before we really start to worry about a conversion target.

VOTE SNDVLS

Passacaglia · 08-31-2007, 11:45 AM

Okay, I'm packing up the computer. Not sure if I'll be back after deadline. I think we look at SD today, then probably BK tomorrow.

VOTE SNDVLS

Alan T · 08-31-2007, 12:02 PM

Well I do have a hard time believing that the wolf would not put in some order for night kill, and I still don't fathom any scenerio where no night kill last night is the good move. No matter which was a wolf, Jonathan or Sndvls, you at least try to kill Pass or Barkeep last night. Neither had any suspicion and doubtful they would have had any today.

Playing devil's advocate.. one of the most damaging things about conversion is that it throws the trust lists out the window. So the possibility of a conversion still could have that effect.. Regardless of whether or not there was a conversion, we know there is at least one wolf left.

I dont think I am necessarily open to changing my vote right now away from Sndvls.. I think in both Barkeep and Jonathan's case their behavior would make it really difficult for me to believe they were a wolf.. Today I believe hinges on getting the vote right.. so I'll listen to other arguements for someone else to be voted, but its going to take alot to unconvince me here.

SnDvls · 08-31-2007, 05:20 PM

vote nightfall

this game is over the wolves have won if I'm the lynch vote...oh well we started off bad and will end the same way.

Barkeep49 · 08-31-2007, 09:00 PM

I still don't understand why no one has voted for JE or explained their trust in him. So I'm going to vote for JE.

Vote JE

Alan T · 08-31-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I still don't understand why no one has voted for JE or explained their trust in him. So I'm going to vote for JE.

Vote JE

I feel like I am speaking into a vaccum... in my mind, my trust for JE is pretty much the same as my trust for you. I feel that you are a villager due to making a move that I don't think a wolf would have done at that spot.

Of course you've been after me all game for reasons I can't fathom either so.....

Barkeep49 · 08-31-2007, 10:02 PM

I've left you alone today as I believe your reveal as host.

ntndeacon · 08-31-2007, 10:18 PM

SnDvls (3)- AlanT, Jonathan,Pass
JE (2)-SnDvLs, Barkeep

Once again we move to lynch another member of this motly band remaining in the house. SnDvLs fears that the end is nigh for all, as Alan proclaims that all is well, with him as host. A minute passes....Two. No change.

Cackling goes up from Alan and Pass as Alan rips Jonathan's head off and sucks out his brains as a horrified Barkeep looks on. Pass then envelops the lone Barkeep in his spirit form draining all of Barkeeps life from him. Darkness is again victorious!

Alan T · 08-31-2007, 10:23 PM

Thanks for the game Path, and thanks for volunteering to fill in Ntn/Chief..

Sorry I couldn't put more attention into this game, just been alot going on for me RL lately, I enjoyed the time played though.

I though Passacaglia played an amazing game, much better than the last time he was a wolf.

Telle · 08-31-2007, 10:24 PM

Ok, so how did Alan get away with saying he was the host?? What happened to the real host?

Telle · 08-31-2007, 10:25 PM

Oh wait.. Alan was the conversion! Right?!

Alan T · 08-31-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telle

Oh wait.. Alan was the conversion! Right?!

Yeah.. I was converted last night... go figure.. I had no idea Pass was the wolf though.. He had me completely baffled.

Passacaglia · 08-31-2007, 10:48 PM

Thanks! I think I had help, though. CR's vote on me probably helped. I think I got lucky in seeing ntn's comment and jumping on that bandwagon early, but not too early (I felt bad about that almost immediately -- like I was throwing CR under the bus before getting a chance to talk with him and figure it out, but as the day went on, it sounded like everyone else thought ntn's post was a seer reveal as well).

Plus, an innocuous comment by ntn helped me out immensely, with no doing on my part. I thought it was pretty obvious that BK was scanned -- he mentioned BK in the same post as CR! Anyway, in a way that hurt my long-term plan, which was to make a conversion, and try to frame BK as the convert. However, I didn't realize that the conversion put as at 3-2, and the game was almost won.

Crim · 08-31-2007, 11:29 PM

That's pretty funny... I tought Alan was a wolf since BEFORE he got converted, and I never suspected Pass at all... in fact I was starting to suspect BK toward the end.

Nicely played, Passacaglia!

Barkeep49 · 09-01-2007, 08:13 AM

I agree Pass played well. I had him pegged as the conversion not as the original wolf. What a game.

Passacaglia · 09-01-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree Pass played well. I had him pegged as the conversion not as the original wolf. What a game.

I probably shouldn't have pressed you for the conversion. That was my plan way back when, late in the day that ntn revealed as the seer. In fact, I thought about converting him, which seemed like a delicious idea, but CR advised me well, that a no-kill night but make everyone suspect that he was the convert. I thought about converting Barkeep as well, but I figured I had to do something about ntn. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned that I thought you might be the convert, since it probably just made you think more and more that I was the convert. But at that point, I was just pushing trying to keep things set for the SD vote.

path12 · 09-03-2007, 11:24 PM

Back. Thanks ntn & Chief for your help and sorry for the unclear parts in the rules to everybody (you decided them all exactly as intended). Should have had more restrictions on the conversion, that made it too overbalanced once the bodyguard was gone.

Barkeep49 · 09-04-2007, 07:29 AM

Actually path I think the game was pretty balanced and could with the exact same rules and players and have a different out come the next time.

Alan T · 09-04-2007, 08:03 AM

I agree that the game didn't feel too unbalanced.. I think the biggest error in the game was the complete trust of Passacaglia (which I was guilty of myself), due to misinterpreting Ntn's statements post-mortem. Thats not a game balance issue, that is just a misplay on the villager's fault.

Barkeep49 · 09-04-2007, 10:20 AM

The whole ntn thing was interesting to me since I had read pretty clearly that he'd cleared Pass and hadn't realized I might be cleared until everyone started posting about it the following day.

Passacaglia · 09-04-2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

The whole ntn thing was interesting to me since I had read pretty clearly that he'd cleared Pass and hadn't realized I might be cleared until everyone started posting about it the following day.

That seems strange. I thought it was pretty obvious from where I was sitting -- then again, I was pretty sure I had not been scanned. I mean, he mentioned BK in the same post as he outed CR. If you saw a seer reveal in that post, why wouldn't you see that he cleared BK in that same post?

Passacaglia · 09-04-2007, 01:24 PM

By the way, who did Lathum guard that first night? With maybe 15 minutes left to deadline, he posted something that made it seem like he was going to guard himself, so I thought he was actually going to guard someone else. Were we clever, or did we just get lucky?

Lathum · 09-04-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

By the way, who did Lathum guard that first night? With maybe 15 minutes left to deadline, he posted something that made it seem like he was going to guard himself, so I thought he was actually going to guard someone else. Were we clever, or did we just get lucky?

I guarded Cronin. I was gonna switch to myself but figured it was a 50/50 shot anyway I would be killed so I figured I would take the risk.

09-03-2007, 11:24 PM	#344
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Back. Thanks ntn & Chief for your help and sorry for the unclear parts in the rules to everybody (you decided them all exactly as intended). Should have had more restrictions on the conversion, that made it too overbalanced once the bodyguard was gone. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

08-30-2007, 10:54 PM	#301
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	As the night breaks, and each of you remember the night of terror that has just ended, you notice that everyone has returned alive for the first time in a while. Maybe the spirits have left. Day 5 has started

08-30-2007, 10:56 PM	#302
Jonathan Ezarik College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bossier City, LA	Great. A conversion?

08-30-2007, 10:58 PM	#303
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Well.. no bodyguard to block, so no night kill only means either the last wolf forgot to submit a night order or a conversion... Since the former really isn't likely, I have to guess its the latter. My usual stance with conversions is that it really is a bad move to suddenly try to figure out who was converted and start going after the most trusted members. I usually think the best play here is to try to narrow down whom the original wolf was from your previous trust list and once you find him hopefully you have gained new clues to figure out whom the convert was.. Also Ntn, what is the gameplay schedule over the weekend? We sitll playing, or waiting till monday?

08-30-2007, 11:14 PM	#304
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Looks like I am the only one around tonight.. so not much to discuss... I'm sticking with my original thoughts.. Vote Sndvls I think its pretty safe to assume Passacaglia and Barkeep were good (prior conversion).. That leaves me Jonathan and Sndvls to decide between. I still don't see Jonathan making the move he did as a wolf, so going to side with voting Sndvls today. There seems to likely have been a conversion, and we'll have to worry about that after we find the first wolf I think.. One other concern now is that there are 5 of us, 3 villagers and 2 wolves.. this means today is a very important vote for us to get right.. if we lynch a villager I think its over for us.

08-30-2007, 11:24 PM	#305
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Man, if there's been a conversion, we're toast.

08-30-2007, 11:31 PM	#306
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Anyway, I'm looking at SD as the original wolf, and BK as the convert. I think you're right, Alan, that the convert is harder to figure, since he's been acting good (and less wolfish) the whole time up until now. But I figure BK is the most likely convert choice, since I think he's been cleared by ntn.

08-30-2007, 11:38 PM	#307
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	well it seems to me we got played and played pretty well by someone...my guess is the third guy Pass was throwing out there. I won't be on much tomorrow because of the ASU Football kickoff lunch so I'll do this now. Vote Alan T it's pretty clear there is only one wolf left and if he killed someone tonight he would pretty much out himself so the smart play would be to do a no kill and keep everyone thinking...smart play wolf, but your time is running out.

08-30-2007, 11:43 PM	#309
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Sorry, I meant to say I don't see why killing would have outed him.

08-30-2007, 11:48 PM	#310
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	We have a deadline on Friday and Monday at 10 eastern. I know I am gonna be busy during Saturday. FOOTBALL!!!!! so that is the plan

08-30-2007, 11:49 PM	#311
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	there is only one wolf left...everyone pretty much has you and/or BK cleared and JE seemes to be trusted or very under the radar...that leaves Alan and I...I know I'm not the wolf so the wolf would choose to kill whom of you, BK or JE since I seemed to have heat/votes on me? I guess in my book it's pretty clear if any of those three were killed...now it still leaves doubt about who is/isn't a wolf and we villagers continue to pick eachother off.

08-30-2007, 11:50 PM	#312
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	That sounds good. I'm leaving tomorrow morning, and not coming back until Monday evening. I'll have wireless at the hotel, but I'll probably only be able to check in during the evenings and mornings.

08-31-2007, 12:01 AM	#318
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	basically if there are 2 wolves left I guess their thinking would be lets get the tie breaker villager role to out themself and try and finish this off that way and not do a night kill tonight.(last night)

08-31-2007, 12:07 AM	#319
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	NTN or CRIM what are the victory conditions for the wolves? it doesn't say in the rules, but inferes they need an even ratio but if it's 1-1 the "Host" can't be the last villager. I guess I'm now leaning towards there beign 2 wolves now...they hope I'm lynched today so it's 2-2 and then they could possibly win...need some clarification

08-31-2007, 07:41 AM	#323
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I am going to suggest that the wolf simply did not submit their action. I know this will likely set off some alarm bells for people, but given the nature of the games, and the PMs that were revealed, I just don't see conversion as a possibility. Can someone remind me what play JE made that would garner him trust?

08-31-2007, 08:54 AM	#324
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	okay if Alan is the host as he claims then unvote AlanT. If there is only 1 wolf left then I believe it's JE so Vote JE if there are 2 wolves left then I still believe JE is one of them. with 5 people left and 2 of them wolves this is how I see them trying to win. it's 3-2 now they knew yesterday that St. C & I were a villager/villager matchup so they win either way and when one of us turned up good the vote would probally automatically switch to the other player thus allowing them to get to the 2-2 tie and basically the win even with the host left they are assured a win as they have a night kill making it 2-1 wolves and a win. now....if there is only 1 wolf left it is now 4-1 and they need to lay low...passing a night kill puts doubt out there about a conversion...which I don't believe is in this game and there is nothing in the rules to even get close to inferring or assuming it either. So again they knew it was villager/villager and made the same assumptions hoping to end today at 3-1 and then get a night kill going 2-1 with the host at some point today/tonight/tomorrow outting himself as Alan just did. This would leave a Pass/BK/JE showdown for the victory. Anyhow those are my thought from the night as I layed in bed last night and the lightbulb went off in my head.

08-31-2007, 10:01 AM	#328
Jonathan Ezarik College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bossier City, LA	I agree with Barkeep in that I'm not sure that a conversion is possible from looking at the roles path listed for us. Of course, it's possible that path left that part out of the message that he showed us, but I agree with Alan that it's a mistake for us to worry about a conversion right now. We should focus on the one wolf we know is around before we really start to worry about a conversion target. VOTE SNDVLS

08-31-2007, 11:45 AM	#329
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Okay, I'm packing up the computer. Not sure if I'll be back after deadline. I think we look at SD today, then probably BK tomorrow. VOTE SNDVLS

08-31-2007, 12:02 PM	#330
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Well I do have a hard time believing that the wolf would not put in some order for night kill, and I still don't fathom any scenerio where no night kill last night is the good move. No matter which was a wolf, Jonathan or Sndvls, you at least try to kill Pass or Barkeep last night. Neither had any suspicion and doubtful they would have had any today. Playing devil's advocate.. one of the most damaging things about conversion is that it throws the trust lists out the window. So the possibility of a conversion still could have that effect.. Regardless of whether or not there was a conversion, we know there is at least one wolf left. I dont think I am necessarily open to changing my vote right now away from Sndvls.. I think in both Barkeep and Jonathan's case their behavior would make it really difficult for me to believe they were a wolf.. Today I believe hinges on getting the vote right.. so I'll listen to other arguements for someone else to be voted, but its going to take alot to unconvince me here.

08-31-2007, 05:20 PM	#331
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	vote nightfall this game is over the wolves have won if I'm the lynch vote...oh well we started off bad and will end the same way.

08-31-2007, 09:00 PM	#332
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I still don't understand why no one has voted for JE or explained their trust in him. So I'm going to vote for JE. Vote JE

08-31-2007, 10:02 PM	#334
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I've left you alone today as I believe your reveal as host.

08-31-2007, 10:18 PM	#335
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	SnDvls (3)- AlanT, Jonathan,Pass JE (2)-SnDvLs, Barkeep Once again we move to lynch another member of this motly band remaining in the house. SnDvLs fears that the end is nigh for all, as Alan proclaims that all is well, with him as host. A minute passes....Two. No change. Cackling goes up from Alan and Pass as Alan rips Jonathan's head off and sucks out his brains as a horrified Barkeep looks on. Pass then envelops the lone Barkeep in his spirit form draining all of Barkeeps life from him. Darkness is again victorious!

08-31-2007, 10:23 PM	#336
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Thanks for the game Path, and thanks for volunteering to fill in Ntn/Chief.. Sorry I couldn't put more attention into this game, just been alot going on for me RL lately, I enjoyed the time played though. I though Passacaglia played an amazing game, much better than the last time he was a wolf.

08-31-2007, 10:24 PM	#337
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	Ok, so how did Alan get away with saying he was the host?? What happened to the real host?

08-31-2007, 10:25 PM	#338
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	Oh wait.. Alan was the conversion! Right?!

08-31-2007, 10:48 PM	#340
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Thanks! I think I had help, though. CR's vote on me probably helped. I think I got lucky in seeing ntn's comment and jumping on that bandwagon early, but not too early (I felt bad about that almost immediately -- like I was throwing CR under the bus before getting a chance to talk with him and figure it out, but as the day went on, it sounded like everyone else thought ntn's post was a seer reveal as well). Plus, an innocuous comment by ntn helped me out immensely, with no doing on my part. I thought it was pretty obvious that BK was scanned -- he mentioned BK in the same post as CR! Anyway, in a way that hurt my long-term plan, which was to make a conversion, and try to frame BK as the convert. However, I didn't realize that the conversion put as at 3-2, and the game was almost won.

08-31-2007, 11:29 PM	#341
Crim College Benchwarmer Join Date: Dec 2003	That's pretty funny... I tought Alan was a wolf since BEFORE he got converted, and I never suspected Pass at all... in fact I was starting to suspect BK toward the end. Nicely played, Passacaglia!

09-01-2007, 08:13 AM	#342
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I agree Pass played well. I had him pegged as the conversion not as the original wolf. What a game.

09-04-2007, 07:29 AM	#345
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Actually path I think the game was pretty balanced and could with the exact same rules and players and have a different out come the next time.

09-04-2007, 08:03 AM	#346
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	I agree that the game didn't feel too unbalanced.. I think the biggest error in the game was the complete trust of Passacaglia (which I was guilty of myself), due to misinterpreting Ntn's statements post-mortem. Thats not a game balance issue, that is just a misplay on the villager's fault.