Werewolf LVI - Upstairs, Downstairs - GAME OVER, Guests WIN!

[SnDvls]

Peregrine

What's the plan for weekend play?

[Lathum]

OK, so this is where I am at.

I think Render is pretty guilty so

Unvote DaddyTorgo
Vote Render


I am VERY suspiscous of PurdueBrad. It almost seems like he is waiting for someone else's OK before he reveals his information, I think it very possible he is waiting for his teammates to get all his ducks in a row before making a move.

[MrBug708]

Settles it for me now

unvote - DT

vote - RendeR

[Lathum]

ArlingtonColt has also been very quiet aftewr latching onto Telles ( a known baddie) vote yesterday.

[Lathum]

dola-

Wouldn't it be funny if Telle was on the downstairs team and Render was on the upstairs team

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

ArlingtonColt has also been very quiet aftewr latching onto Telles ( a known baddie) vote yesterday.

ArlingtonColt was vouched for by Eaglefan. Eaglefan was ArlingtonColt's child. So we're pretty gurantueed that ArlingtonColt is a guest.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

ArlingtonColt was vouched for by Eaglefan. Eaglefan was ArlingtonColt's child. So we're pretty gurantueed that ArlingtonColt is a guest.

doesn't mean a guest with good intentions.

ArlingtonColt would know Telle was a baddie, and it is very plausable that he was trying to tip his hand to Telle by so closely following her vote.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I haven't read the whole thread, I am still catching up but I want to call BS on Render here.

I saw sndvls out last night and there was no indication of a knife or blood or anything

Not to poke holes in you own so welf appreciative post here lathum, well...yes actually this IS to poke holes in it, but what exactly kept sndvls from doing two actions last night? say, searching and killing? you see him one time, I see him the other?

Nothing you just posted verifies anything other than the fact that you saw him at one point in time. You were out and about twice, its obvious SNDvls could have been as well.

As for not seeing anything bloody or the knife, again, PMs do not always contin every detail, you may have see him from behind or for whatever reason you didn't get a detailed look, you may have seen him right before he killed Telle.

Call BS when you actually have a valid point

[Lathum]

also, gneraly in these games when players are "related" there is some sort of effect on player A when player B is killed.

ArlingtonColt seems fine.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Not to poke holes in you own so welf appreciative post here lathum, well...yes actually this IS to poke holes in it, but what exactly kept sndvls from doing two actions last night? say, searching and killing? you see him one time, I see him the other?

Nothing you just posted verifies anything other than the fact that you saw him at one point in time. You were out and about twice, its obvious SNDvls could have been as well.

As for not seeing anything bloody or the knife, again, PMs do not always contin every detail, you may have see him from behind or for whatever reason you didn't get a detailed look, you may have seen him right before he killed Telle.

Call BS when you actually have a valid point

I see your point but when you add it all up you are hte overwhelming choice here.

But Bravo for not going down without a fight.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

also, gneraly in these games when players are "related" there is some sort of effect on player A when player B is killed.

ArlingtonColt seems fine.

So you are saying that Eaglefan was lying, even though he died and reported to be exactly who he said he was?

I'm not sure how to respond to this.. I guess I just won't.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So you are saying that Eaglefan was lying, even though he died and reported to be exactly who he said he was?

I'm not sure how to respond to this.. I guess I just won't.

of course I am not saying that.

But do you dispute my point that in these games when players are related somehow one is usually effected by the others fate?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

of course I am not saying that.

But do you dispute my point that in these games when players are related somehow one is usually effected by the others fate?

That is perhaps true in maybe 30-40% of the games I have seen and far more likely in the case of a lovers role moreso than a brothers role (or a role like a brothers role like it seems is the case here).

I'm sorry, I can't concede this point at all that someone who is completely trusted via death (Eaglefan) would have misled us on this. I think the ONLY fully trusted person in this game right now is ArlingtonColt.

The only arguement I would consede is the possibility of being the sympathizer, but like I've repeated many times, if he is.. so what.

[Alan T]

My honest opinion of Lathum's play.. and maybe I am waaaay off base here..

He is playing so off the wall obviously a sympathizer in his comments that he is trying to make sure that the upstairs/downstairs teams scan him to see if he is their sympathizer or to just not kill him all together. At this point several of us that are guests have made comments that we aren't actively looking for the sympathizer, so playing this way has low risk/high reward results for him.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

My honest opinion of Lathum's play.. and maybe I am waaaay off base here..

He is playing so off the wall obviously a sympathizer in his comments that he is trying to make sure that the upstairs/downstairs teams scan him to see if he is their sympathizer or to just not kill him all together. At this point several of us that are guests have made comments that we aren't actively looking for the sympathizer, so playing this way has low risk/high reward results for him.

if you think I am a sympathizer and you aren't concerned with a sympathizer then why even worry about me?

And I really don't want anyone to waste a scan on me.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I see your point but when you add it all up you are hte overwhelming choice here.

But Bravo for not going down without a fight.

SO yer saying "well render, you're absolutely right, my challenge of the situation was completely baseless" yet yer still going to vote for me anyway?

Alan's right, yer wacked.

I'm still really baffled by the overwhelming stubbornness being shown here. What is it about me that you guys, almost always, assume I'm a bad guy every game? When have I ever shown myself to be THAT competant at this? Cause I don't see it.

SNDvls says he saw me. I say I saw him with a bloody knife. Someone else says they saw me running, no specifics on a weapon. Lathum says he saw SNDvls too, with no specifics on a weapon, so we have 2 poeple on either side of the argument. But I'm the landslide vote getter? Why? I think we need a serious look at those driving the lynch vote here. Its easy to get snowballed, just look at Cronin last game and barkeep a few games back.

Its 4 hours till deadline. I'm wondering if I shouldn't just give up my role and reveal so you guys can see that you're making a mistake. I'm not sure my abilities are going to get put to use or not. It certainly doesn't seem likely tonight. If i do reveal at least then there is another guest to vote out the uppers n downers.

Unless of course you all ship me off to leavenworth ANYWAY. gah.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

if you think I am a sympathizer and you aren't concerned with a sympathizer then why even worry about me?

And I really don't want anyone to waste a scan on me.

I'm not telling people to vote you am I? I don't want you to push people into trying to doubt ArlingtonColt when I feel its unfounded is all.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

SO yer saying "well render, you're absolutely right, my challenge of the situation was completely baseless" yet yer still going to vote for me anyway?

Alan's right, yer wacked.

I'm still really baffled by the overwhelming stubbornness being shown here. What is it about me that you guys, almost always, assume I'm a bad guy every game? When have I ever shown myself to be THAT competant at this? Cause I don't see it.

SNDvls says he saw me. I say I saw him with a bloody knife. Someone else says they saw me running, no specifics on a weapon. Lathum says he saw SNDvls too, with no specifics on a weapon, so we have 2 poeple on either side of the argument. But I'm the landslide vote getter? Why? I think we need a serious look at those driving the lynch vote here. Its easy to get snowballed, just look at Cronin last game and barkeep a few games back.

Its 4 hours till deadline. I'm wondering if I shouldn't just give up my role and reveal so you guys can see that you're making a mistake. I'm not sure my abilities are going to get put to use or not. It certainly doesn't seem likely tonight. If i do reveal at least then there is another guest to vote out the uppers n downers.

Unless of course you all ship me off to leavenworth ANYWAY. gah.

I never said you are right, I said I see your point.

2 very different things.the bottom line is I the info I got on AlanT and Sndvls was EXACTLY the same. They were both walking around trying to be quier. to me that consistancy leads me to believe sndvls over you.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm not telling people to vote you am I? I don't want you to push people into trying to doubt ArlingtonColt when I feel its unfounded is all.

I'm just trying to drum up conversation.

Right now PurdueBrad is tops on my distrust list.

[SnDvls]

RendeR did you not see the evidence presented against you?

makes a pretty solid case on it's own

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

DaddyTorgo suddenly pulled out a packet of papers during your discussion and threw it down in front of you all. "Evidence! This old will shows that only RendeR would have benefited from the murders!"

RendeR now has two more votes against him.

in case you missed it

[SnDvls]

if you are the only person to benefit from the murders it would be the longest of longshots for someone to go that far to set you up....1) they would have to know it would set you up and only you 2) they would have to know you'd be in the area where the murder happened and at the exact same time 3) they would have to know you'd be seen too.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

DaddyTorgo suddenly pulled out a packet of papers during your discussion and threw it down in front of you all. "Evidence! This old will shows that only RendeR would have benefited from the murders!"

RendeR now has two more votes against him.

My question regarding this is: Does evidence found point directly to somebody, or does it depend on the person providing the evidence specifiying who it incriminates? Big difference on how I interpret it.

If you're putting a case down that includes a specific person, I support that.

If not........well, all that shows is that the person you've pointed at isn't on your team.

[SnDvls]

dola - if that happened I'd have to consider quitting WW as there is no way that ruleset is fair.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

For us right now, I'm more worried that we won't get to day 4 before losing to one of the other teams.

This is kind of why I don't mind keeping that a mystery. Right now both Upstairs and Downstairs know almost all of the guest roles. They know who is on their side also, so can just start picking off the other ones. Any possible confusion should be encouraged at this point rather than clarified.

In hindsight, I wish I hadn't revealed my role.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

ArlingtonColt would know Telle was a baddie, and it is very plausable that he was trying to tip his hand to Telle by so closely following her vote.

Huh? Why would he know she was bad?

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Peregrine

What's the plan for weekend play?

At this point I'm fine to play through the weekends. If anyone can post that won't be able to do it at all, that would be helpful. Obviously if the majority of you can't or don't want to then we can pick things up on Monday.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

if you are the only person to benefit from the murders it would be the longest of longshots for someone to go that far to set you up....1) they would have to know it would set you up and only you 2) they would have to know you'd be in the area where the murder happened and at the exact same time 3) they would have to know you'd be seen too.

actually none of that is true at all.

For example: Just because I'm the only one who benefits from the murders does not prove that I committed the murders, it simply adds circumstantial evidence that implicates me.

Secondly what setup? its perfectly possible for the GUESTS to have evidence against them as well as the two other groups is it not?

Why would they have to know where I was and when? Evidence is simply evidence, in this case they found an old will that, for some weird reason shows that I would benefit from telle/eagle/BK's deaths somehow. Where and when the murders took place has abolutely nothing to do with it. DT could have had this evidence all along, he just needed one of those three to give a reason to pull it out.

And your last point is also completely illogical, why would they have to know I'd be seen anywhere? its just a will, the reason it BECOMES evidence is that the people/person who wrote it are now dead. My activities last night bear no real relation to that.

Nothing you posted here follows at all. You're going hard core to get me lynched, I'm not sure what made you choose me to go after this morning but your starting to slip up and post really illogical aruements. This post of yours is completely fallical (fallacial?, full of falacy?) oh hell its just fucking wrong dude. None of what you posted is true.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

My question regarding this is: Does evidence found point directly to somebody, or does it depend on the person providing the evidence specifiying who it incriminates? Big difference on how I interpret it.

If you're putting a case down that includes a specific person, I support that.

If not........well, all that shows is that the person you've pointed at isn't on your team.

Its not evidence specifically for any person. You basically find generic "evidence" that you can then use against the player of your choice.

So any evidence played should be viewed as just 2 more votes, not "proof" of wrongdoing.

[Alan T]

Dola, the reason I know the answer to the evidence question was I misunderstood what evidence was in the ruleset. So when I received some in my pm last night.. I was like uhhh.. who does this evidence point to? Peregrine clarified for me via pm when I asked earlier in the day. So I could if I wanted to use evidence against ArlingtonColt as an example and all it does is add 2 votes to his total.

[Peregrine]

As your discussions continue, Alan T tosses down a worn shoe. "Look, blood on the heel! This points to RendeR being guilty of these crimes!" The Inspector examines the shoe and nods excitedly. "It has to be!"

Two more votes cast against RendeR.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Its not evidence specifically for any person. You basically find generic "evidence" that you can then use against the player of your choice.

So any evidence played should be viewed as just 2 more votes, not "proof" of wrongdoing.

Well then, the next logical question is why is DT so hot to dump a couple extra votes on RendeR?

I'd think finding something like that would be a great thing to have in one's pocket in case of a) imminent lynch; or b) certainty about someone being bad or not on your team.

I don't see the benefit of using it in an 8-3 vote unless you think it might help clear you somehow.

[path12]

Or, why would Alan decide to use it in a 10-3 vote against RendeR?

Some people I respect are making some strange moves this game.

[Peregrine]

Just to make sure everyone understands the Evidence.

1) It can be used against any player, of your choice.
2) It is a random item which does not signify anything, I just make it up for story purposes.
3) It adds two votes for the player it is used against.

I really wanted to try it as kind of a new idea, and see how it affected the voting. So far it's only been used to reinforce a bandwagon but there may be more out there...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Or, why would Alan decide to use it in a 10-3 vote against RendeR?

Some people I respect are making some strange moves this game.

I think DT's move is pretty self expanatory. Its 8-3 vote with 6 votes outstanding. Without knowing what type of "evidence" Render's team may have to sway it, DT obviously wants to use it in self-preservation if nothing else.

My move, I stated earlier this morning that I had it and was planning on using it. I once again brought it up later in the day and the only person to comment on it was Sndvls who stated his thoughts was better to use it than die with it.

I decided that in the end, since I am leaving soon and won't be around till late tonight (date night for me tonight), and with certain guests still trying to point people in direction of other guests instead of non-guests, I just didn't want to leave any room for any fishy things happening. If you had reservations about me using the evidence, you should have said it at some point in the previous 8 hours today after I brought it up

[jeheinz72]

Sorry to interrupt!

Man, you guys are entertaining to read. I'm in my first game over in the GG boards, can't wait to get in one here!

Carry on!

[ArlingtonColt]

I don't understand how I could have any doubt on who I said I am. Eaglefan proves it with his death (only he would know my role...) I was gonna attack with my shiny new weapon tonight, but looks like i may have to guard myself just in case.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonColt

I don't understand how I could have any doubt on who I said I am. Eaglefan proves it with his death (only he would know my role...) I was gonna attack with my shiny new weapon tonight, but looks like i may have to guard myself just in case.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to tell you on this. I don't know if we have any bodyguard type roles or its simply our guard action that is a bodyguard type role. Obviously we want to keep you alive since we can pretty much trust you. You could try doing both a guard and an attack tonight but then that would require you to fully rest tommorrow. Good luck with whatever your decision is.

[Neon_Chaos]

Just got back from company picnic. Off to watch RE3.

Anyway, the evidence seems like an item that can be used by good and bad guys.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I decided that in the end, since I am leaving soon and won't be around till late tonight (date night for me tonight), and with certain guests still trying to point people in direction of other guests instead of non-guests, I just didn't want to leave any room for any fishy things happening. If you had reservations about me using the evidence, you should have said it at some point in the previous 8 hours today after I brought it up

Well, I am definitely at fault for not keeping track of every post and point that you bring up.

But that doesn't change the fact that you know what it does, and decided to use it anyway in a runaway vote that it won't affect. You can't blame that on people not saying anything earlier.....I know you're smart enough not to use something that does no good when it might do something for you at a later point -- just like I don't have to tell you not to light your hand on fire....

Personally, I get just as weird a vibe about DT as I do about RendeR, and I think you've mentioned doubts about DT as well. So why would you protect him? I think we've got either an upstairs or a downstairs person either way.

[path12]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Sorry to interrupt!

Man, you guys are entertaining to read. I'm in my first game over in the GG boards, can't wait to get in one here!

Carry on!

What is GG? Sign up for the next game, we're always happy to kill -- er, I mean have new players!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, I am definitely at fault for not keeping track of every post and point that you bring up.

But that doesn't change the fact that you know what it does, and decided to use it anyway in a runaway vote that it won't affect. You can't blame that on people not saying anything earlier.....I know you're smart enough not to use something that does no good when it might do something for you at a later point -- just like I don't have to tell you not to light your hand on fire....

Personally, I get just as weird a vibe about DT as I do about RendeR, and I think you've mentioned doubts about DT as well. So why would you protect him? I think we've got either an upstairs or a downstairs person either way.

Well maybe I made a poor decision on using it. I am hopeful that by using it, that the upstairs and downstairs teams will find less reason to go after me tonight though since they already knew I had it.

Either way, off to date night, going to see 3:10 to Yuma I think. Good luck guests, I won't be back till after lynch tonight.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by path12

What is GG? Sign up for the next game, we're always happy to kill -- er, I mean have new players!

It's GridIron Glory (BBCF league).

I'll definitely keep an eye out for the next one. I wish our game over there was half as entertaining, but no one talks (well aside from loudmouth me).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

What is GG? Sign up for the next game, we're always happy to kill -- er, I mean have new players!

hxxp://www.totalsportsworld.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16011

I don't play there or read the boards, but someone else from here mentioned them in the last WW game as well. Some of the folks there I recognize from FOFC or OOTP boards or somewhere at least!

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Either way, off to date night, going to see 3:10 to Yuma I think. Good luck guests, I won't be back till after lynch tonight.

Interested to know what you think of it -- it's one of my long list of things to see right now.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Sorry to interrupt!

Man, you guys are entertaining to read. I'm in my first game over in the GG boards, can't wait to get in one here!

Carry on!

Glad you're enjoying it. You can check out a lot of our old games on the Wiki that (I believe) Alan T and Barkeep set up.


http://www.rwbl.net/fofcwiki/index.p...Werewolf_Games

I got infected with Werewolf Fever on the Boardgamegeek boards, where they have this thing down to a science, and several hundred games played. I brought it here and it's been crazy ever since, with a lot of great players and GMs.

[path12]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

It's GridIron Glory (BBCF league).

I'll definitely keep an eye out for the next one. I wish our game over there was half as entertaining, but no one talks (well aside from loudmouth me).

If most players are new, it takes a few games to really know what to say in my experience. Look forward to playing with you next game and I'll check out your game thread....

[Barkeep49]

Let me just say I disapprove of anyone playing any games which might prevent them from playing here . And that it's probably worth having a seperate thread if people want to continue a discussion along these lines rather than clogging up this game thread.

~BK, YFWWM

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well maybe I made a poor decision on using it. I am hopeful that by using it, that the upstairs and downstairs teams will find less reason to go after me tonight though since they already knew I had it.

Either way, off to date night, going to see 3:10 to Yuma I think. Good luck guests, I won't be back till after lynch tonight.

well if I would have known the true result of evidence I would have told you to hold yours.


I thought it really was evidence that pointed the true guilt of someone not just an item that adds 2 votes to someone.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong in this thinking, but that is what I have taken away from w/ Perg.'s explination.

It appears it is just a vote adder and shouldn't be taken as anything more than that....is that what I'm understanding?

[RendeR]

Wait now, how many people are not going to be here later? Cause with 4 lumped on votes for no real good reason I've gotta decide wether to reveal fully or not. I'm not sure I can get enough people online before deadlin to change votes enough either way at this point....10-3, each vote (if switched to DT) counts for 2 basically...so if I can convice 4 people to switch it'd be 7-6.....might be worth a shot...of course I'll just get killed overnight *sigh*