A quote from that chimp John Clayton

Fritz · 06-17-2003, 08:59 AM

Mike Alstott is a powerful inside runner who's too one-dimensional to maintain a successful ground attack for 16 games.
....
Alstott hits the hole so hard that his big body would wear down after 200 carries.
...
The good news for the Bucs is that times have changed and running attacks don't have to be great. They just need to be good. The bad news is that the Bucs were barely acceptable last year on the ground and losing Pittman would be devastating.

(from http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/clayt...n/1566444.html)

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WTF is he saying? If you read this as "Mike Alstott is a powerful inside runner who hits the hole hard and only needs to be good" then it sounds like the issue is durability. Has Alstott ever had a durability issue?

Alstott's play reminds me of Larry Csonka. A big brusing runner (both fullbacks by the way) who hits people. Of course Csonka dropped the ball less, but my point is their style of play appears similar. Why couldn't Alstott be the featured guy for Tampa

QuikSand · 06-17-2003, 09:27 AM

He's a chimp! This is just what randomly came out of the typewriter.

But slightly more seriously - I think the point to be made about Alstott as the featured back is that he lacks the speed and breakaway ability that csues defenses to cover outside and in the flat. I'm not necessarily saying that this along should preclude him from being the first running option, or even the main feature back. But I think that (and his fumbling) is the main drawback - not what I'd draw from Clayton above.

Honolulu_Blue · 06-17-2003, 09:33 AM

Alstott has never had a durability issue that I'm aware of. In fact, he's eclipsed the 200 attempt number twice in 1998 (215) and 1999 (242). Granted, that happened a few years ago, but he is still averaging around 147 attempts per season over the last three years.

Let's say a team averages 20-25 carries a game. That's between 320-400 carries in a season. Based on those numbers, I don't see why Alstott couldn't be the featured back in Tampa. He seems to be good enough. He does have a fumbling problem and, at this stage in his career, getting back to the 200 attempt a year mark may take its toll.

JAG · 06-17-2003, 10:18 AM

My favorite line from the article was "Losing Pittman would be devestating" A bit of an overstatement here, I don't see how losing a back who averages rushing for 45 yds/game with a 3.5 yd average could be 'devestating'. We're not talking about replacing Marshall Faulk here.

JAG

TroyF · 06-17-2003, 10:34 AM

Fritz,

Actually, Alstott does tend to get worse as the game goes along. If you don't limit his carries, he tends to wear down at the end of games.

As QS said, he doesn't hit the hole especially hard and he puts the ball on the ground a little much for my tastes. I don't think he is all that comparable to Csonka either. Larry used to destroy teams. While he carried the ball about as much as Alstott does, he averaged 4.3 yards per carry for his career. That's a mark Alstott has never hit for a single season.

All in all? I don't think you can win with that type of player as your main guy without a lot of other factors going your way. Even Csonka had Mercury Morris eating up carries to compliment him. The last problem I have with Alstott is that he's one of the most inconsistent backs I've ever seen. Up, down, up, down. 100+ yards one week, 17 the next.

My personal opinion is that it would be suicide to have Alstott as your MAIN guy. I wouldn't mind seeing them try it though. He's always been a class act IMO, and I'd enjoy seeing if he could pull it off.

TroyF

I think making him the MAIN guy would be suicide.

Fritz · 06-17-2003, 10:56 AM

I don't think anyone has said doesn't hit the hole hard except you, but we all agree he drops the ball a bit much.

Quote:

As QS said, he doesn't hit the hole especially hard and he puts the ball on the ground a little much for my tastes.

Oh, I would never say he is a Csonka clone. I was saying he has a similar style and that style has won plenty of games. Alstott doesn't need 4.3 ypc since the Bucs like to throw.

Quote:

I don't think he is all that comparable to Csonka either. Larry used to destroy teams. While he carried the ball about as much as Alstott does, he averaged 4.3 yards per carry for his career. That's a mark Alstott has never hit for a single season.

Everyone is looking for the do it all back, but those guys are in short supply. You can a main option at one style and bring in others for a change of pace. I am not suggesting that Alstott is a 300 + carry guy.

Quote:

All in all? I don't think you can win with that type of player as your main guy without a lot of other factors going your way. Even Csonka had Mercury Morris eating up carries to compliment him.

This may be the best argument against Alstott, but Clayton did not make it.

Quote:

The last problem I have with Alstott is that he's one of the most inconsistent backs I've ever seen. Up, down, up, down. 100+ yards one week, 17 the next.

I think he could be fine as the main guy with 10-15 (or so) touches a game. Jones (who catches well) and/or Stecker can get the rest.

Quote:

My personal opinion is that it would be suicide to have Alstott as your MAIN guy. I wouldn't mind seeing them try it though. He's always been a class act IMO, and I'd enjoy seeing if he could pull it off.

TroyF

I think making him the MAIN guy would be suicide. [/b]

TroyF · 06-17-2003, 11:08 AM

Yep, I misquoted QS. That should have said get to the outside. It's my opinion he doesn't hit the hole hard enough.

He dances around too much like a tailback for my tastes. Most of his big hits where he's rumblin, stumblin are 15 yards down the field on defensive backs, not at the line on LB's filling the hole.

I think your scenario might work. They certainly have the defense for it. Still, you are relying on an aweful lot for that to take place. You'd have to pray Brad Johnson stays healthy the entire year. (no way those backups are going to generate a Super Bowl trophy IMO) You also have to hope Alstott doesn't get hurt. You won't find a similar runner to him.

We'll see how it plays out.

TroyF

mckerney · 06-17-2003, 12:56 PM

Mike Alstott is a fullback? That's news to me.

06-17-2003, 09:33 AM	#3
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	Alstott has never had a durability issue that I'm aware of. In fact, he's eclipsed the 200 attempt number twice in 1998 (215) and 1999 (242). Granted, that happened a few years ago, but he is still averaging around 147 attempts per season over the last three years. Let's say a team averages 20-25 carries a game. That's between 320-400 carries in a season. Based on those numbers, I don't see why Alstott couldn't be the featured back in Tampa. He seems to be good enough. He does have a fumbling problem and, at this stage in his career, getting back to the 200 attempt a year mark may take its toll. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

06-17-2003, 09:27 AM	#2
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	He's a chimp! This is just what randomly came out of the typewriter. But slightly more seriously - I think the point to be made about Alstott as the featured back is that he lacks the speed and breakaway ability that csues defenses to cover outside and in the flat. I'm not necessarily saying that this along should preclude him from being the first running option, or even the main feature back. But I think that (and his fumbling) is the main drawback - not what I'd draw from Clayton above.

06-17-2003, 10:18 AM	#4
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	My favorite line from the article was "Losing Pittman would be devestating" A bit of an overstatement here, I don't see how losing a back who averages rushing for 45 yds/game with a 3.5 yd average could be 'devestating'. We're not talking about replacing Marshall Faulk here. JAG

06-17-2003, 10:34 AM	#5
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Fritz, Actually, Alstott does tend to get worse as the game goes along. If you don't limit his carries, he tends to wear down at the end of games. As QS said, he doesn't hit the hole especially hard and he puts the ball on the ground a little much for my tastes. I don't think he is all that comparable to Csonka either. Larry used to destroy teams. While he carried the ball about as much as Alstott does, he averaged 4.3 yards per carry for his career. That's a mark Alstott has never hit for a single season. All in all? I don't think you can win with that type of player as your main guy without a lot of other factors going your way. Even Csonka had Mercury Morris eating up carries to compliment him. The last problem I have with Alstott is that he's one of the most inconsistent backs I've ever seen. Up, down, up, down. 100+ yards one week, 17 the next. My personal opinion is that it would be suicide to have Alstott as your MAIN guy. I wouldn't mind seeing them try it though. He's always been a class act IMO, and I'd enjoy seeing if he could pull it off. TroyF I think making him the MAIN guy would be suicide.

06-17-2003, 11:08 AM	#7
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Yep, I misquoted QS. That should have said get to the outside. It's my opinion he doesn't hit the hole hard enough. He dances around too much like a tailback for my tastes. Most of his big hits where he's rumblin, stumblin are 15 yards down the field on defensive backs, not at the line on LB's filling the hole. I think your scenario might work. They certainly have the defense for it. Still, you are relying on an aweful lot for that to take place. You'd have to pray Brad Johnson stays healthy the entire year. (no way those backups are going to generate a Super Bowl trophy IMO) You also have to hope Alstott doesn't get hurt. You won't find a similar runner to him. We'll see how it plays out. TroyF

06-17-2003, 12:56 PM	#8
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Mike Alstott is a fullback? That's news to me.

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