Need an assist

[jeheinz72]

Hey folks, I'm GM'ing my first game on another forum. Was wondering if anyone had any good general PM's they could send me for the role PM's. I mainly want to make sure I don't miss including any information.

Also, any tips for running a game muchly appreciated!

[st.cronin]

When in doubt, make it simple. In some of the recent games, we've had gms posting in thread what the "generic villager" pm would actually be.

[Barkeep49]

I would agree about being careful to make sure the villagers can't start secretly signaling to each other their villager status.

I would also plan out the order of night actions in advance, so that when some sort of unforeseen combination of events occurs you aren't making things up on the fly.

The hardest part is figuring out when to adjust the game on the fly and when to hold fast to the rules you laid out at the start. That'll come with experience.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

When in doubt, make it simple. In some of the recent games, we've had gms posting in thread what the "generic villager" pm would actually be.

I've definitely liked this trend -- it was one of the few good things I think I did in my poorly-done Clue game.

[jeheinz72]

Ok, rough rules

Good roles:

Modified seer - can scan 1 each night, plus peek one player per night. First peek on a player is 66% correct. 2nd peek is always correct

Standard Bodyguard, Standard Duke

Bad Roles: Brutal Wolf

Some items in there too

[path12]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Modified seer - can scan 1 each night, plus peek one player per night. First peek on a player is 66% correct. 2nd peek is always correct

So they can scan two different players each night? Even at 66% correct I think that might be a bit high.

What about having two seers, one who has the chance of being incorrect and the other that is always correct........sort of like the seer/fool roles in this game. I'm not sure how I like that so far though.

What kinds of items? Can they be passed? When can they be used? Items can really be tricky from a balance point of view.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by path12

So they can scan two different players each night? Even at 66% correct I think that might be a bit high.

What about having two seers, one who has the chance of being incorrect and the other that is always correct........sort of like the seer/fool roles in this game. I'm not sure how I like that so far though.

What kinds of items? Can they be passed? When can they be used? Items can really be tricky from a balance point of view.

I added the peek to aid the village. To give you an idea, in our first game, the Seer knew every role from the outset, and the town still lost (Seer died early). So I'm lessening that talent, in hopes that with less knowledge the Seer may actually last longer

2 defense items (50% and 25%), 1 knife and one key to prevent a night action. Items can be passed, but can't be used the same night they're passed

I thought about the seer/fool dynamic, but thought it might confuse the n00bs

[Barkeep49]

You'll need to give the wolves extra help with that beefed up seer. Perhaps a wolf duke?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

You'll need to give the wolves extra help with that beefed up seer. Perhaps a wolf duke?

What's a wolf duke?

They can do the same a regular duke but play for the wolfies?

[jeheinz72]

what if I start a wolf out with the knife? Would that balance?

[Passacaglia]

I'd rather have a villager start with a knife -- less powerful for either team. Maybe give the villager a knife, instead of the beefed up seer?

[Barkeep49]

Yes a duke who is on the wolf side.

A villager with a knife is, especially among people who are newer to the game (as I believe your community is) can be a real minus to the villager side as it can often lead to suspicion when someone uses it and the dead person comes up as a villager. Look at the heat Render got last game for killing me.

[jeheinz72]

Ok, I'm keeping as above but I'm adding a Cunning Wolf to the Wolfie side. I'm also starting with the first phase as Day, is that the right way to do it?
Should be 15 players+, 3 wolves (unless I hit 19 players, then I'll add a 4th)

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Ok, I'm keeping as above but I'm adding a Cunning Wolf to the Wolfie side. I'm also starting with the first phase as Day, is that the right way to do it?
Should be 15 players+, 3 wolves (unless I hit 19 players, then I'll add a 4th)

Its possible to start with a night, but normally night 0 (which is what it would be called) is a no-kill night. If its just seer/bodyguard/duke + wolves, this is an advantage for the village.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Its possible to start with a night, but normally night 0 (which is what it would be called) is a no-kill night. If its just seer/bodyguard/duke + wolves, this is an advantage for the village.

It's seer/bodyguard/duke + wolves with wolves having a Don and a Cunning Wolf.
Is that not enough?

Should I make a Wolf Duke instead of Cunning? If so, does the Wolf Duke get revealed as the Wolf Duke when he does it, or does he get revealed as a regular duke?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

It's seer/bodyguard/duke + wolves with wolves having a Don and a Cunning Wolf.
Is that not enough?

Should I make a Wolf Duke instead of Cunning? If so, does the Wolf Duke get revealed as the Wolf Duke when he does it, or does he get revealed as a regular duke?

You could lay out your full rule set, and get some ideas whether its balanced or not. When I say something is "ad village" or "ad wolves" it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it - but if you think the game is going to be too hard for one side, you need to find some way to give the other side an advantage. Sometimes I make last minute adjustments to my rules when I see how many players there are, because it becomes impossible to balance it the right way.

[hoopsguy]

Heinz - I think the seer role, as you have it listed, has too much power relative to the rest of the roles. It makes it a make/break role in terms of the village winning or losing.

The seer is just about always the most powerful role even when getting just the default "one view per night".

There are obviously ways to balance it out, but I'm not sure that providing an uber-wolf to counter the uber-village is the best way to do it.

Nice to have a thread where I can actually post my thoughts right about now

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, you may be right. I'd like to keep that Seer as-is though, just to spice things up and enter a random element into it. Here are the rules (without adding the wolf duke yet. And sorry, too lazy to re-format)

I'm sending out roles in like 4-5 hours, so let me know what changes you guys would recommend. Oh, and thanks for all the help! We have 15 players signed up, so I'm thinking 12-3 ratio

Here are the official rules for the game.

Please, no posts here until I post the backstory

This will be a basic game like TSW #1, but with a few new components mixed in. I've highlighted in Red any changes from last game, but please read the complete rules.

We will use a 24 hour deadline with a 11 AM PST deadline. This means that for 24 hours it will be 'night' and the mafia will decide who to hit while the innocents try to figure things out. At 11 AM, someone will die and day will come. For the next 24 hours, it will be daytime and the innocents will vote to lynch someone they think is a mafia member.

Mafia is a game of lying, cheating and deceit.

Each day you will vote for one person to be lynched. The player who receives the most votes will be killed. In the event of a tie the longest-held unchanged vote will break the tie.

Each night the mafia will submit a player they want to kill.

All actions will be processed using a deadline of Noon PST.

Rules

Undetermined number of Gamblers and Mafia to start the game
There is no editing of posts for whatever reason.
There is no quoting of PM's received from the game director.
There is no discussion of the game anywhere other then this thread.
PM's between mafia members only are allowed, PM's between anyone else (aside from me) are not allowed.

Voting

Votes for a player will be submitted in bold, for example

VOTE COOLEY

you may unvote a player and revote a player

UNVOTE COOLEY
VOTE PEACEMAKER

Roles

Good

Gambler: You are a member of the general public, and have no extra powers

Poker Pro: You can get a read on people quickly and easily. Each night, you can do 2 actions.

1) You can scan another living player to determine if they are Gambler or Mafia (but not if they have a specific role)

2) You can peek another living player to get a read on them. This first read is correct 2/3rds of the time. If you peek the same player twice, you will be given a 100% accurate read on them.

You do not have to use both actions each night-phase

Security Guard: You're a former cop and a loose cannon. You hate bad guys and love to protect the people. Each night you can select one player to protect from a Mafia Kill.

High Roller: You're a multi-millionaire here to feed your gambling fix away from the bright lights of the strip. Once, in the entire game, you can use your money and influence to change the outcome of the lynch to the player of your choosing. It will be announced that you are the High Roller at the time of the change.

Evil

Mafium: You are out to kill everyone and everything. Each night you select a player to hit.

The Don: If killed you can select a player to take with you to the grave.

Items

Items will be given one of two ways. Either given to someone starting off the game, or dropped during the game. Items may only be used at night, and can be passed. However, they can't be passed and used the same night. So if A passes the knife to B on Night 1, then B can't use the knife until the Night 2 at the earliest. I must be PM'd on any passes to make them "official", passes in-thread don't count.

Croupier's Stick: Gives you a 50% chance of surviving a night attack

Kitchen knife: Allows you to perform a one time night kill on any player

Stool: gives you a 25% chance of surviving a night attack

Jail Key: You may use this one time to "lock up" a player and they will be unable to perform their night action for one night

Victory Conditions

The Mafia win with a 1:1 ratio of Mafia to Gamblers

The Gamblers win with all Mafia eliminated.

Sign up in the other thread if you want in. The Mafia will know each other. No one else will know jack.


* - Subject to change if the people advising me on how to run this tell me I've made some fatal flaw or the rules unbalanced.

Again, please no posts in this thread until I open the game via posting the backstory and PM'ing roles.

This should be a fun one!

[Neon_Chaos]

I hate items. HATE THEM. They're a poor excuse to add "balance" to a game. Werewolf is about mindgames and lying, not relying on items to save your sorry ass.

The Poker Pro role is too powerful.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

The Poker Pro role is too powerful.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the items either, but the 1st game had them and people liked 'em so why not. I actually don't plan on dropping them all.

What if I lowered the % for the Poker Pro to 50/50. Then it's a complete guess.

My goal is to step it up from 1 to 1.5 scans per night. I'd rather keep that as is (or lower to 50%) and add to the wolf side, then take away the Poker Pro, personally.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the items either, but the 1st game had them and people liked 'em so why not. I actually don't plan on dropping them all.

What if I lowered the % for the Poker Pro to 50/50. Then it's a complete guess.

My goal is to step it up from 1 to 1.5 scans per night. I'd rather keep that as is (or lower to 50%) and add to the wolf side, then take away the Poker Pro, personally.

here's a tip: scans are a BIG bonus for villagers. if i could, i would limit the seer role as much as i can to allow the game to flow. Just have a normal seer.

[jeheinz72]

I thought about it, and while you all are probably right, I want to go with it, for kicks.

I added a new Mafia role though, a Thief who can take items (picking 1 player per night) and scans as a Villager. I figure this lessens the seer's ability a bit (since one less Mafia will come up as Mafia) and adds a small fun power.

[hoopsguy]

Obviously different people have issues with different game elements - I don't have a problem with items, as I think they bring in another type of strategy. It becomes a different game, but I don't think they break the game by any means.

Adding the enhanced "cunning wolf" - who can lift items - helps with the balance, I think.

I'm all for new and creative roles added to games. But when you add new stuff it becomes more tricky to get the right balance. And that is one of the primary jobs as moderator. You don't have to run a close game because that is up to the players, but you should strive to run a game where both teams have a near-equal opportunity to win.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Obviously different people have issues with different game elements - I don't have a problem with items, as I think they bring in another type of strategy. It becomes a different game, but I don't think they break the game by any means.

Adding the enhanced "cunning wolf" - who can lift items - helps with the balance, I think.

I'm all for new and creative roles added to games. But when you add new stuff it becomes more tricky to get the right balance. And that is one of the primary jobs as moderator. You don't have to run a close game because that is up to the players, but you should strive to run a game where both teams have a near-equal opportunity to win.

Yeah, I think it's pretty close. Or at least close enough to live and learn from.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm all for new and creative roles added to games. But when you add new stuff it becomes more tricky to get the right balance. And that is one of the primary jobs as moderator. You don't have to run a close game because that is up to the players, but you should strive to run a game where both teams have a near-equal opportunity to win.

I would echo this. I think the most balanced rules I've ever come up with were for Treasure Hunt, which turned into a villager route. Both sides need the chance to win the game, not that the game needs to go on forever. A good game will have at least 1, but more often 2 or 3, tipping points where a slightly different decision could have sent it in a whole new direction.