People that don't vote - STFU

[DaddyTorgo]

If you're going to sit around and say "I'm not going to vote" than in my mind you need to STFU and sit down about all things even tangentially related to voting.

If you won't exercise your constitutional-right to help guide the direction that this country (or your state or your city or whatever) will take, then in my mind you have absolutely no platform to stand on.

this isn't directed at any one person per se, more something that i've heard from several people, here on the board and off the board.

but really...maybe it's just the way i was raised or whatever, but if you're not going to take the time to vote, and vote intelligently, than i don't want to hear you bitching about the economy, or foreign policy, or illegal immigrants, or taxes, or anything like that.

if you don't want to be a functioning, contributing member of society then you lose any ground that you might have on to critique that society.

[Desnudo]

So you vote in every election - local, state, national?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

So you vote in every election - local, state, national?

He even votes when there are no elections just for practice.

[spleen1015]

But my presidential vote doesn't matter. Indiana will go Republican regardless of how I vote.

[oliegirl]

I feel the same way. I figure if you don't take the opportunity to cast your vote, your voice on how the country should be run for the next 4 years, then you don't have much right to sit and bitch about things when you don't like how the country is being run.

If you don't want to vote, that is fine, there are a lot of people who feel that way. I don't think any less of those who don't, just don't feel they have a leg to stand on in a political discussion...

[path12]

Personally I do vote in every election, because I feel that when it comes down to it this country asks two things of you: vote and pay your taxes.

However, if someone chooses not to I don't think it's up to me to lecture or judge them. Although I do agree that it makes any arguments that person might make about government pretty hollow.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

So you vote in every election - local, state, national?

yep. without a doubt. i was out of the country in 04 but we voted absentee before we left...i've voted in every election since i was 18.

[MalcPow]

That's cool, except you can probably contribute more to society by exercising your right to speech and advocating for the kinds of governance that appeal to you than by casting ballots for candidates whose policies are anathema to your ideals.

[rkmsuf]

Can we pull a "you never played the game" and get Kornheiser off MNF?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by path12

Personally I do vote in every election, because I feel that when it comes down to it this country asks two things of you: vote and pay your taxes.

However, if someone chooses not to I don't think it's up to me to lecture or judge them. Although I do agree that it makes any arguments that person might make about government pretty hollow.

not lecturing. just agreeing with you and olie that it makes their arguments hollow / doesn't give them a leg to stand on.

was just...pent-up a bit i guess.

[Lathum]

That's bullshit.

I pay my taxes so I have a right to have an opinion how the money I earn gets spent.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That's bullshit.

I pay my taxes so I have a right to have an opinion how the money I earn gets spent.

You have the right to an opinion, but if you don't even have the energy to get up off your ass and make a fairly informed vote, then you prove that your opinion really isn't that important to you or anyone else.

[Jas_lov]

I disagree. People should be able to do what they want. If they don't want to vote that's their business.

[Lathum]

Right, but I am interpreting the original post to mean I have no right to any opinion and thats BS.

It's my money thats getting spent wheather or not I vote.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

I disagree. People should be able to do what they want. If they don't want to vote that's their business.

It's a free country!

[billethius]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

But my presidential vote doesn't matter. Indiana will go Republican regardless of how I vote.

" I'm in Washington. I could waste a few hours and go vote for the next President, but the state is voting Democrat anyways.

For that matter, unless you live in the state that just passed the popular vote thing (don't remember what state it was) or you're a member of the electoral college, your vote for president matters very little.

[spleen1015]

BUT MY VOTE DOESN'T MATTER!

[MalcPow]

Originally Posted by path12

You have the right to an opinion, but if you don't even have the energy to get up off your ass and make a fairly informed vote, then you prove that your opinion really isn't that important to you or anyone else.

An informed opinion could lead you to decline the privilege of further legitimizing the election of a poor candidate...

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

But my presidential vote doesn't matter. Indiana will go Republican regardless of how I vote.

But what if every person who was going to vote Democratic said that? Don't you think that it could have an impact then?

You have one voice in this country. One opportunity to make yourself heard, your vote. If you don't cast your vote, that's it.

In 1996, I voted for Dole. Not because I thought he was going to win, or even because I thought he was the better candidate...I didn't think there was a good candidate this year. I voted Dole because I knew Clinton was going to win, but I didn't want him winning with my vote. I figured that for the next 4 years, it gave me the right to gripe and complain about Clinton and the ridiculousness he put the country through. I'm sure there are people who would disagree with my reasons for voting, but at least I voted. I cast my ballot and said "this is who I want to be president" or rather "this is who I don't want to be president".

[Lathum]

I predict this thread will end badly

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by path12

You have the right to an opinion, but if you don't even have the energy to get up off your ass and make a fairly informed vote, then you prove that your opinion really isn't that important to you or anyone else.

Fairly informed vote? 90% of voters aren't fairly informed.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by billethius

" I'm in Washington. I could waste a few hours and go vote for the next President, but the state is voting Democrat anyways.

For that matter, unless you live in the state that just passed the popular vote thing (don't remember what state it was) or you're a member of the electoral college, your vote for president matters very little.

Yes and no. There are states that swing between parties every election. Indiana hasn't gone Demoncrat since like 1234, so I know my state is voting Republican. One more Republican vote makes no difference.

Now, I do believe my vote for governor matters since it is a popular vote.

[markprior22]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

It's a free country!

WOO HOO!!!!!! +1

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I predict this thread will end badly

let's vote on it!

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

But what if every person who was going to vote Democratic said that? Don't you think that it could have an impact then?

The impact would be a better USA!

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

let's vote on it!

VOTE OR DIE!!!!!!

[bhlloy]

I'm not sure DT was simply referring to the presidential elections. I find it even more strange that many people will vote for president, but they can't get turnout greater than 20% for local city and county elections. In the grand scheme of things, local elections have a much bigger effect on your everyday life.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Well, I believe DaddyTorgo when he says that his post wasn't directed at one person in particular, but I'm the first person who said something here today about not voting, so I feel that I should respond.

I don't claim to have an informed opinion about politics, so I don't feel that I should vote. Besides, I think that my cousin Tanya would run things pretty damn well, but she's no politician, so nobody else will vote for her. I only want to vote for my cousin Tanya. If she is absolutely 100% not going to get the job, I'm not going to go vote for somebody else just because I can. When there's a choice out there that is truly appealing to me, I'll vote. In the meantime, I'm not voting because I don't care. Am I really the kind of person that you want helping to make those decisions that are obviously important to you?

[Lathum]

I value Pumpy's opinion.

I'll vote for Tanya.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Well, I believe DaddyTorgo when he says that his post wasn't directed at one person in particular, but I'm the first person who said something here today about not voting, so I feel that I should respond.

I don't claim to have an informed opinion about politics, so I don't feel that I should vote. Besides, I think that my cousin Tanya would run things pretty damn well, but she's no politician, so nobody else will vote for her. I only want to vote for my cousin Tanya. If she is absolutely 100% not going to get the job, I'm not going to go vote for somebody else just because I can. When there's a choice out there that is truly appealing to me, I'll vote. In the meantime, I'm not voting because I don't care. Am I really the kind of person that you want helping to make those decisions that are obviously important to you?

you'll care when the country decides to turn on all the bounty hunters

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

It's a free country!

Yes, it is...because people in this country felt the right to vote, among other things, was worth fighting for, and in many many cases, worth dying for.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

It's a free country!

I agree. You won't see me preaching on my moral throne about people not voting. If they don't want to vote, don't vote! It's none of my business. It's their personal decision.

[path12]

Originally Posted by MalcPow

An informed opinion could lead you to decline the privilege of further legitimizing the election of a poor candidate...

I wrote in Hunter Thompson in 1980 and 84, and Nader in 1988 and 1992. I don't know if that was the result of an informed opinion or drugs.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Yes, it is...because people in this country felt the right to vote, among other things, was worth fighting for, and in many many cases, worth dying for.

I don't think this road needs to be traveled, hmm?

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Well, I believe DaddyTorgo when he says that his post wasn't directed at one person in particular, but I'm the first person who said something here today about not voting, so I feel that I should respond.

I don't claim to have an informed opinion about politics, so I don't feel that I should vote. Besides, I think that my cousin Tanya would run things pretty damn well, but she's no politician, so nobody else will vote for her. I only want to vote for my cousin Tanya. If she is absolutely 100% not going to get the job, I'm not going to go vote for somebody else just because I can. When there's a choice out there that is truly appealing to me, I'll vote. In the meantime, I'm not voting because I don't care. Am I really the kind of person that you want helping to make those decisions that are obviously important to you?

I don't remember you being one to participate in political threads that much, so I have no problem with this. But I do have a problem with people who don't vote and then spend the next 4 years whining. Like I said before, if everyone who said their vote didn't count, actually got out there and voted, then those votes would absolutely count and absolutely could change the outcome.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Synovia

Fairly informed vote? 90% of voters aren't fairly informed.

I'm not quite that pessimistic, but will agree that many vote for who they are told to vote for by family, friends or other sources. That's a shame, but I still give them some credit for going out and actually voting.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That's bullshit.

I pay my taxes so I have a right to have an opinion how the money I earn gets spent.

I agree. We don't have compulsory voting in the US. I can choose all candidates suck and not bother, or that working is more important than casting a vote an election who's outcome isn't in doubt, or an election I don't care about.

What DT stated is a popular sentiment, but I just don't see the correlation. Voting is a right, it doesn't spurn additional rights (to have an opinion), and choosing not the exercise that right doesn't quash other rights you have as an American.

None of my votes have ever changed anything or impacted any elections, except in a symbolic way. That's why I'm also annoyed when people say, "Well, I want to vote for Ron Paul, but he won't win, so that will be a wasted vote". I hate to break it to you, but your vote isn't going to be the deciding factor either way, so you may as well vote what you believe or don't bother.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I don't remember you being one to participate in political threads that much, so I have no problem with this. But I do have a problem with people who don't vote and then spend the next 4 years whining. Like I said before, if everyone who said their vote didn't count, actually got out there and voted, then those votes would absolutely count and absolutely could change the outcome.

Indeed, I don't participate in political discussions, and that's because I don't know anything about it. I don't vote for the NBA All-Star Game either because I don't follow the NBA until the playoffs.

I will say this, though. If I think that some politician or that politician's people are doing something so badly that it's adversely affecting my life, I'm damn sure going to think that my cousin Tanya should be doing that job instead.

[MalcPow]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I don't remember you being one to participate in political threads that much, so I have no problem with this. But I do have a problem with people who don't vote and then spend the next 4 years whining. Like I said before, if everyone who said their vote didn't count, actually got out there and voted, then those votes would absolutely count and absolutely could change the outcome.

I think people that don't vote would argue it might change the outcome of the election, but that likely won't change the outcome of the policies of the government that upset them. If no candidate represents someone's wishes, then changing the outcome of an election doesn't really matter to them.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Yes, it is...because people in this country felt the right to vote, among other things, was worth fighting for, and in many many cases, worth dying for.

Though, considering that voting rights for some people were restricted as late as the 1960s, one can argue that the need for a "right to vote" by the population was not a primary determinant for the founding of the country, nor could it be considered a primary determinant (until 35 years ago) of one's choice to fight for the country.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I don't think this road needs to be traveled, hmm?

I do. This fight is still going on in a lot of countries around the world, and I think the people who have the attitude of "it's a free country but I'm not going to exercise my right to vote" are wrong. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, just like you are entitled to the opinion to think I'm wrong.

There is a movie, The American President...Michael Douglas is in it. Very cheezy movie, but good. Toward the end he gives a speech and says something about how democracy is hard, you have to work at it every day, you have to fight for it. I think Americans have become lazy...as a general society we want to sit around and just let everything happen, but when we don't like how things are going we don't really do much to change it. The system isn't perfect, I'm not saying it is. But the reality is that it's what it is and we need to make the best of it. And in my opinion, that would be for every legal American Citizen over the age of 18 to vote in every election. It's something I believe strongly in. I'm not someone who knows everything about politics, but I consider myself to be relatively well informed. I cast my vote based on what I know, and what I value as important issues. If someone casts a vote and they can say "I voted for because of , then I consider it an informed vote.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I value Pumpy's opinion.

I'll vote for Tanya.

It's time to rock the vote

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I do. This fight is still going on in a lot of countries around the world

why should I give a rats ass about what is going on in countries around the world?

I would much rather have my tax dollars spend on education or fixing the health care system then on some manhunt for WMD's that don't even exist.

[RomaGoth]

This is a very compelling thread to say the least. As I have quite a few opinions on politics in our country (and the world for that matter), I will lay out a little bit of them here.

I have not voted since 2000, and I voted 3rd party. I will always lean towards the conservative spectrum in politics because I feel that we are NOT all equal. Look at sports, finances, academics, the list goes on and on. I believe we are all entitled to the same opportunities, but we are not all going to achieve the same success. Therefore, why should we all be given the same rewards? This may all seem off base, but I am just spouting off right now so forgive me. I am really sick of hearing people that say the government owes them something, other people owe them something, or blah blah blah. I work my ass off every day to provide for my family. I attend college now because I screwed off for many years prior to having children. Those were my decisions. Now I am working hard to improve my life and my family's life. I do not believe the government owes me anything. With all this being said, I don't believe because I have the right to vote and I don't vote, that I am not allowed to "whine" about the state of my country. I am just as much a citizen as the next guy who DOES vote. If I don't like any of the candidates, why should I vote for them? Example: I don't like anything George Bush has done in the last 8 years. I also hated the entire time that Bill Clinton was in office. So, let's just say for argument's sake that these 2 are running for office right now, and they are the final candidates. I don't like either one. Why should I feel compelled to vote for either of them if I don't agree with their policies? Choosing the lesser of 2 evils is not a good option for me. I choose the third option of not voting for either of them. In fact, in 2000 I voted 3rd party. Obviously it was a wasted vote, but I agreed with more of that doctrine than either of the other two.

All I am really saying is that we should not judge people for not voting. Not agreeing with or liking any of the candidates does not automatically remove your right from having an opinion. Hillary Clinton or Rudy Giuliani?

Neither thanks. See you in 4 more years.

[Passacaglia]

Man, the poll is taking forever to load.

(Sorry I didn't STFU, even though I didn't vote -- what are we voting on, anyway?)

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

But my presidential vote doesn't matter. Indiana will go Republican regardless of how I vote.

Actually, the GOP could be in trouble in Indiana this time around. I think it will be a toss up in 2008. If the Dems nominate Bayh as VP, then they win it in a landslide.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I think Americans have become lazy...as a general society we want to sit around and just let everything happen, but when we don't like how things are going we don't really do much to change it. The system isn't perfect, I'm not saying it is. But the reality is that it's what it is and we need to make the best of it.

I agree with this statement. However, I also feel that many of us have become completely disenchanted with our politicians in general. We are so sick of the lies and cheating that we are either immune to it now or just don't care anymore. I am not one of those people, but I know of others that feel that way. What we need to do as responsible citizens is take our country back from the crooked politicians. We need to vote the people out of office that are corrupting and abusing the system.

This is our country, and the people we are voting for work for us. So yes, you are correct to some extent that we have become lazy. We have also become too busy to pay attention to all that is going on right in front of us, like the port deal last year for example.

We shouldn't vote just for the sake of voting. We should vote because we believe in our country.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

but really...maybe it's just the way i was raised or whatever, but if you're not going to take the time to vote, and vote intelligently, than i don't want to hear you bitching about the economy, or foreign policy, or illegal immigrants, or taxes, or anything like that.

Given who we usually end up with for canidates for any particular political postition, the directive to "vote intelligently" is pretty much impossible.

[Lathum]

I don't think we have gotten lazy, I just think we are dissenchanted.

Politicians aren't the "heros" they used to be in this country, there will never be another JFK.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't think we have gotten lazy, I just think we are dissenchanted.

Politicians aren't the "heros" they used to be in this country, there will never be another JFK.

Are you being serious or sarcastic with the JFK comment?