College vs pro football players

[Icy]

First at all pardon for my ignorance, I started watching football like 6 years ago or so, have not grown surrounded by it like you Americans and don't have your stats background.

The Tennessee Titans spread offense thread made me wonder about how true is the myth that NFL game is way faster, hits are way harder and every player is way bigger than the college ones, so an option offense can't succeed in the pros.

Myth 1: The NFL plays a way faster game than College.

Are there any speed charts comparing college vs pro players?

College seniors are from 22 to 24 years old right? isn't that the human body prime? Does a 27 years old guy really run way faster than a 24 years old one?

Even if the 27 years old player runs faster than the 24 one, there are also some 30 years old guys playing in the NFL and i guess their speed is decreasing already, so while some players could be faster, some are also slower.

Also how fast are the faster pro players compared with the college ones in the same position? 0.1 seconds in 40 yards (just a guess)? does it really make a huge difference?

Myth 2: NFL players are way bigger than college ones.

Are there any size/weight charts comparing college vs pro players?

I can understand NFL players being heavier than college ones, as they live exclusively for football, with better (supposed) eating habits controlled by the team, etc. Also they had more time to build muscle and better training plans. Abut size, well i guess it's related to overall size, because most of people doesn't gain height after the early twenties.

Myth 3: NFL players hit way harder than college ones.

I guess hitting is related to speed and size so... how harder hits the NFL tackles leader, LB Patrick Phillips (6'1'' 242lbs) compared with LSU Junior Darry Beckwith (6'1'' 230 lbs)? really way way harder?

And btw, LB Patrick Phillips is a rookie, so he was hitting college players just a year ago, was he hitting them softly in college in 2006?

Discuss

[ISiddiqui]

I believe that all the myths are true when you compare them on average. The reason NFL is a faster game and the players are bigger is because the NFL takes the fastest and biggest college players. They only take the best players. Those who have all the skills. That's why the game is faster and the players hit harder, because they are in some respects 32 college all star teams.

[rkmsuf]

All of that is true. No question about it. You don't need charts...just watch. College game is light years inferior skill wise in total to the NFL.

[Passacaglia]

Without knowing anything, I'd say that your averages will be much much much higher for speed and strength in the NFL (players have played longer, and there's far less players who make it to the NFL than who make it to a D 1-A college), but your variances for those stats will be higher in colleges. The transition from college to pro is all about handling that shift in averages.

[TroyF]

You have over 100 division one teams with 80 man scholarship limits. You take the best players off those teams, along with the a few upper tier players from the lower college levels.

Combine them into 32 teams with 53 man rosters.

That alone should tell you which is the more difficult league to play in. I don't even need to get into the skill level of players as they mature and hit their "peak"years, the unlimited practice time, or anything else.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

... because they are in some respects 32 college all star teams.

That's probably as good a shorthand explanation as any.

I figure there are somewhere between 12,000 and 15,000 players currently in Division I football. There's something like 1600 players in the NFL, leaving you to deal with the top 10%-15% (or less due to NFL longevity) of college players at that level.

[Icy]

Yes, but also those selected players in the NFL draft are the best in college and they are also used to face the best college players as the best teams play between them. So what i mean, is that the top college players, that will end in the nfl, are almost NFL caliber when in college, so if a top college team can run succesfully an option offense vs the other top college teams, why wouldn't those players be able to run it once they reach the nfl and face some of the guys they also faced in college?

I'm not comparing the average college player with the average nfl's, but the top college players, that will end in the NFL, with the average nfl'ers.

[rkmsuf]

that might work in the Spanish league. not here.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Icy

Yes, but also those selected players in the NFL draft are the best in college and they are also used to face the best college players as the best teams play between them. So what i mean, is that the top college players, that will end in the nfl, are almost NFL caliber when in college, so if a top college team can run succesfully an option offense vs the other top college teams, why wouldn't those players be able to run it once they reach the nfl and face some of the guys they also faced in college?

I'm not comparing the average college player with the average nfl's, but the top college players, that will end in the NFL, with the average nfl'ers.

Even the top colleges rarely have more than 5 or 6 guys out of their 22 starters make the NFL, so the bulk of players on a college team, even an elite college team, are still not as good overall as the collection of players on a pro team.

Another thing to keep in mind about a big difference between college and pro is the layout of the field. The wider hashmarks play a huge part in the success of a college offense that uses the option. Since the play starts closer to the sidelines, it is much easier for the offensive linemen to block, since there isn't as much space they have to cover and be responsible for on the "short" side of the field.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

Even the top colleges rarely have more than 5 or 6 guys out of their 22 starters make the NFL, so the bulk of players on a college team, even an elite college team, are still not as good overall as the collection of players on a pro team.

This pretty well beats me to my next point, that it seems you may be underestimating how diffused the NFL caliber talent is across D1 college football.

[BishopMVP]

Also, when people talk about the faster speed, it's not just foot speed. It's the speed to read a play and react that improves in the NFL. A lot of the college spread/option offenses work because they can get a player or two out of position and exploit that. If a better drilled NFL player stays where he is supposed to, there are no gaps for the runner to exploit.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Icy

Myth 1: The NFL plays a way faster game than College.

Are there any speed charts comparing college vs pro players?

College seniors are from 22 to 24 years old right? isn't that the human body prime? Does a 27 years old guy really run way faster than a 24 years old one?

Even if the 27 years old player runs faster than the 24 one, there are also some 30 years old guys playing in the NFL and i guess their speed is decreasing already, so while some players could be faster, some are also slower.

Also how fast are the faster pro players compared with the college ones in the same position? 0.1 seconds in 40 yards (just a guess)? does it really make a huge difference?


Discuss

I agree with what else has been said but I also think part of this is NFL players know what they are doing. Players are better at being in the right position, holes close faster and I think that also makes them seem faster. Just because you're faster doesn't mean you'll get to the ball faster, if you read the play and are in better position you'll get there faster than a 'fast' guy.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Icy

Yes, but also those selected players in the NFL draft are the best in college and they are also used to face the best college players as the best teams play between them. So what i mean, is that the top college players, that will end in the nfl, are almost NFL caliber when in college, so if a top college team can run succesfully an option offense vs the other top college teams, why wouldn't those players be able to run it once they reach the nfl and face some of the guys they also faced in college?

I'm not comparing the average college player with the average nfl's, but the top college players, that will end in the NFL, with the average nfl'ers.

Is the Premiere League more beautiful then lower leagues?

[Noop]

The biggest difference is speed but not foot speed. Reaction time is the biggest difference imo

[Huckleberry]

In addition to everything else stated here is practice time and film room time.

It's hard to install a defensive gameplan and really get it down in the limited number of practice hours allowed by the NCAA.

Muc h easier for full-time employees to commit an entire week to it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I figure there are somewhere between 12,000 and 15,000 players currently in Division I football. There's something like 1600 players in the NFL, leaving you to deal with the top 10%-15% (or less due to NFL longevity) of college players at that level.

And that 10-15% (or less) is the college ranks as a whole, though of course the talent isn't equally distributed there. It's consolidated mostly into the top 20 programs or so, and a college player will spend most of his time playing against lower teams, who have VERY FEW future NFL players. So I think the typical opposition someone faces is even far less than the numbers would suggest.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Put it this way. Each year, 224 players from college are drafted into the NFL. A ton of them don't make it on a team, and those that do end up on special teams, way down the depth chart, and eventually cut. This is from a starting pool of thousand and thousands of college players.

Plus, you're solely focusing on physical skills/characteristics of players, and not everything else that is probably worth way more (intelligence, motivation, drive, experience, etc.)

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Put it this way. Each year, 224 players from college are drafted into the NFL.

No love for the compensatory picks?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Icy

Yes, but also those selected players in the NFL draft are the best in college and they are also used to face the best college players as the best teams play between them. So what i mean, is that the top college players, that will end in the nfl, are almost NFL caliber when in college, so if a top college team can run succesfully an option offense vs the other top college teams, why wouldn't those players be able to run it once they reach the nfl and face some of the guys they also faced in college?

I'm not comparing the average college player with the average nfl's, but the top college players, that will end in the NFL, with the average nfl'ers.

You make a great point that you would think the option should work but it really hasnt been tried in a long time. The biggest reason is the defense it so much quicker to react it would be hard to outflank them with this play, a second reason is that the defensive ends are so big and strong they crash down and would eventually knock this high priced qb out of the game.

[Bubba Wheels]

Pro football is 'overcoached.' Becomes either conservative and dull, or one team dominates all others like the Patriots. College may be technically 'inferior', but all the variations make it much more exciting on a week to week basis. If college 1A ever got a playoff system it would absolutely overtake the NFL in popularity.

[Cap Ologist]

You are all missing the key thing: NFL teams draft and sign players based on their Zodiac signs, thereby increasing team chemistry which creates superfast, superstrong athletes.

[Groundhog]

It's pretty much the same reason that you can't run a "48 minutes of hell" full-court-press attack in the NBA. EVERYBODY is an athlete and though you'd probably get some turnovers from it, the amount of times you'd get beaten for an easy 2-pointer makes it not worthwhile.

The Celtics tried to do it a little bit in the infamous Rick Pitino Boston Wildcats days, with predictable results.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Pro football is 'overcoached.' Becomes either conservative and dull, or one team dominates all others like the Patriots. College may be technically 'inferior', but all the variations make it much more exciting on a week to week basis. If college 1A ever got a playoff system it would absolutely overtake the NFL in popularity.

Athough individually I like college football much better I disagree simply because pro football has a set 16 game schedule and fantasy football is too popular now. College football is much more fun to watch like you are basically stating.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Athough individually I like college football much better I disagree simply because pro football has a set 16 game schedule and fantasy football is too popular now. College football is much more fun to watch like you are basically stating.

I agree. Plus in pro football each team technically has a chance every year (except for the Cardinals) by making the right personnel moves while in college the major Cindarella story doesn't happen often (How many Duke fans think there is a football championship in their lifetime, or that of their great great grandkids?).

Though atmosphere and excitement make college football very enjoyable to watch it's still not going to beat watching the very best players.

[Groundhog]

Meh. College games CAN be more fun to watch due to a little more diversity in the play calling, but it can also be dead boring and very sloppy too.

I mean, I'd rather watch a decent mid-range college matchup than watch a Dolphins-Raiders, but watching the two top NFL teams go at it is more enjoyable to me than watching the #1 and #2 college teams play each other most of the time.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

In addition to everything else stated here is practice time and film room time.

It's hard to install a defensive gameplan and really get it down in the limited number of practice hours allowed by the NCAA.

Muc h easier for full-time employees to commit an entire week to it.

Also a lot of the best atheletes are shuttled to the offensive skill positions early. By the time everybody makes it to he NFL, the defenseive players are at teh same level, but when all of the super fast players are trying to be recieers in HG and colleges, it means that the average pure atheletic talenet on defensise is often lower than the average pure athletic alent on offense.

-Abe

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Meh. College games CAN be more fun to watch due to a little more diversity in the play calling, but it can also be dead boring and very sloppy too.

I mean, I'd rather watch a decent mid-range college matchup than watch a Dolphins-Raiders, but watching the two top NFL teams go at it is more enjoyable to me than watching the #1 and #2 college teams play each other most of the time.

If people can agree on who should be the top 2 teams.