2008 NFL Draft Thread-Jake Long Goes #1 - Page 3

DaddyTorgo · 04-26-2008, 01:17 PM

heh...i hope matt ryan makes all you doubters eat your words!

Solecismic · 04-26-2008, 01:18 PM

I have opened room #fofdraft on dalnet (irc.dal.net) for draft discussion, if people are interested.

watravaler · 04-26-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

I continue to hold out the false hope that somehow the Bears nab Mendenhall

I like Mendenhall as much as Mayock, and don't believe there is a significant difference between him and McFadden, but what good is a stallion back behind a horrible line?

Arles · 04-26-2008, 01:19 PM

Packers will do one of four things at 30:

1. Trade down (30% chance)
2. Take CB Talib or Flowers (30% chance)
3. Take QB Brohm (20% chance)
4. Take OL Sam Baker (20% chance)

To be honest, I'd be fine with any of these. I really like Cason, so I wouldn't mind them trading down 4-5 spots and still landing him. I also like Reggie Smith, who should be there when their cleveland pick comes up. For the first time in a while, we don't *NEED* a starter at any spot, so Ted should go BPA or trade down.

Noop · 04-26-2008, 01:20 PM

Matt Ryan is a pretty good QB but he is not in my opinion a top-10 QB however Brian Brohm I think is going to be a better pro because his accuracy is the best of the QB's in this class as well as next years.

SteveMax58 · 04-26-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watravaler

I like Mendenhall as much as Mayock, and don't believe there is a significant difference between him and McFadden, but what good is a stallion back behind a horrible line?

+1 on the Mendenhall point.

I actually have him going to the Jets, as I see them going for the BPA-skill position-wise and expected Atlanta or KC to reach on Ryan, and Oakland to draft McFadden.

Chief Rum · 04-26-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

heh...i hope matt ryan makes all you doubters eat your words!

It's not really about him. Ryan is as good as he is. He seems like a middling talent to me, not a star. I mean, 32 INTs in the last two years? That's the best QB in this draft? Whispers of Rex Grossman and Kyle Boller echo in my ears--and they had better final seasons.

Ryan probably won't be that bad, but a Top Five QB should be a McNabb, Manning, Palmer, etc. He is definitely none of those guys, IMO.

No, the draft always way, way, way overhypes QBs because it is the glamour position, and I think teams buy into it to an extent (even have to--because the fans treat it as legit cuz all they know is the hype, so if a team passes up a strongly hyped QB without a proven player at the spot, they get dinged PR-wise).

DaddyTorgo · 04-26-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It's not really about him. Ryan is as good as he is. He seems like a middling talent to me, not a star. I mean, 32 INTs in the last two years? That's the best QB in this draft? Whispers of Rex Grossman and Kyle Boller echo in my ears--and they had better final seasons.

Ryan probably won't be that bad, but a Top Five QB should be a McNabb, Manning, Palmer, etc. He is definitely none of those guys, IMO.

No, the draft always way, way, way overhypes QBs because it is the glamour position, and I think teams buy into it to an extent (even have to--because the fans treat it as legit cuz all they know is the hype, so if a team passes up a strongly hyped QB without a proven player at the spot, they get dinged PR-wise).

as Jaws just pointed out - he was playing with small, lesser-talented receivers, so he had to take some chances, and many of the INT's were not his fault

Chief Rum · 04-26-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

Packers will do one of four things at 30:

1. Trade down (30% chance)
2. Take CB Talib or Flowers (30% chance)
3. Take QB Brohm (20% chance)
4. Take OL Sam Baker (20% chance)

To be honest, I'd be fine with any of these. I really like Cason, so I wouldn't mind them trading down 4-5 spots and still landing him. I also like Reggie Smith, who should be there when their cleveland pick comes up. For the first time in a while, we don't *NEED* a starter at any spot, so Ted should go BPA or trade down.

My prediction. Brohm and Baker won't be there. I can see the CB route, but I bet at least one of those corners won't be there either. Trading down depends on a partner. Fortunately, it is easier and more common for a trade down at the end of the first than at the start. So I could see that.

My guess is the Packers will do none of these things.

Buccaneer · 04-26-2008, 01:28 PM

But those teams projecting to take Ryan will likely see an upgrade at that position?

Chief Rum · 04-26-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

as Jaws just pointed out - he was playing with small, lesser-talented receivers, so he had to take some chances, and many of the INT's were not his fault

Part of being a QB is assessing the chances for things to go wrong, including what your WRs are likely to do. And if he goes Top Three or Five, you think he will be playing with great receivers?

Best thing for Ryan would be to drafted lower down and sat to tutor for a year or two behind a solid veteran. That won't happen, but that's what would be best for him. I have more confidence in Brohm making a positive impact in his first year than Ryan.

Chief Rum · 04-26-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

But those teams projecting to take Ryan will likely see an upgrade at that position?

Can you expand on this so I know what teams you are talking about and what point you're trying to make? I'm not sure I understand.

st.cronin · 04-26-2008, 01:30 PM

I think the Packers will either take a lineman, or Dustin Keller. If Brohm is there the temptation will probably be to trade down rather than draft him.

Arles · 04-26-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

My prediction. Brohm and Baker won't be there. I can see the CB route, but I bet at least one of those corners won't be there either. Trading down depends on a partner. Fortunately, it is easier and more common for a trade down at the end of the first than at the start. So I could see that.

I think a team would be willing to trade to 30 to get Henne, IMO. If Brohm, Baker and one of those corners are gone, that means someone like Mayo, Sweed or Cherilus is probably there. Those guys would also make a fairly decent upgrade over the round 2 players at their spots. Still, I think there will be a lot of interest from either Baltimore, the Jets or Atlanta (whomever doesn't land Ryan) to move up and nab Henne (or Brohm) at 30.

Quote:

My guess is the Packers will do none of these things.

Chance for being correct? Probably 100%

st.cronin · 04-26-2008, 01:32 PM

Matt Ryan played for a good team, one of his lineman is likely to be a first round pick. That's just nonsense. He's an ok prospect, but not really any different from guys like Kyle Boller, Aaron Rodgers, etc. Its actually pretty hard to tell why he's scouted higher than John David Booty, never mind Brian Brohm.

Arles · 04-26-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think the Packers will either take a lineman, or Dustin Keller. If Brohm is there the temptation will probably be to trade down rather than draft him.

Keller would be too much of a reach (plus I think they like the Carlson kid from ND more - and he should be at their Cleveland pick). I could see OL, but I think there will be a good offer to trade down. IMO, Henne or Brohm (or both) will be there and the Ryan loser will offer a decent deal to move up.

Chief Rum · 04-26-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Matt Ryan played for a good team, one of his lineman is likely to be a first round pick. That's just nonsense. He's an ok prospect, but not really any different from guys like Kyle Boller, Aaron Rodgers, etc. Its actually pretty hard to tell why he's scouted higher than John David Booty, never mind Brian Brohm.

Well, Booty scored a 15 on his Wonderlic or something.

Plus, have you heard him talk? Seriously, though, you're right, I am not sure Ryan is much better than Booty. He probably is...probably.

st.cronin · 04-26-2008, 01:36 PM

Booty's from Louisiana, right? So he doesn't even speak English.

VPI97 · 04-26-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

Matt Ryan is a pretty good QB but he is not in my opinion a top-10 QB however Brian Brohm I think is going to be a better pro because his accuracy is the best of the QB's in this class as well as next years.

I don't even think he's a first round QB...in two games against VT last season (the best defense he saw...and not even close to being as good as your typical NFL defense), he combined to go 58/104 for 590 yards, 2 TD and 4 INT. The only thing that stood out about those two games was the last minute drive during the first meeting and that was as much about busted coverage as it was about Ryan.

If the Falcons take Ryan at #3, that'll solidify my idea that the old idiots running the show were just replaced by newer idiots.

Noop · 04-26-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VPI97

I don't even think he's a first round QB...in two games against VT last season (the best defense he saw...and not even close to being as good as your typical NFL defense), he combined to go 58/104 for 590 yards, 2 TD and 4 INT. The only thing that stood out about those two games was the last minute drive during the first meeting and that was as much about busted coverage as it was about Ryan.

If the Falcons take Ryan at #3, that'll solidify my idea that the old idiots running the show were just replaced by newer idiots.

26/53 415 2tds 3Ints

Thats his stats against Florida State. I agree I really don't think he is that good but he is certainly a 1st round QB based on need and not talent. I am very high on Brohm and hope that the Dolphins are able to get him.

Raiders Army · 04-26-2008, 01:59 PM

In the words of Rich Eisen: "Let's get this puppy started!"

JonInMiddleGA · 04-26-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Atlanta already has a ton of draft picks (I think 3 in round 2), so I'm not sure what trading down will really accomplish for thim. I agree with JimGa that both Dorsey and Ryan are risky picks, but ... who else would you argue for at 3?

What it would accomplish is avoiding overpaying for someone who isn't going to deliver what a #3 overall costs.

And I'm not sure there's anybody I'd argue for at #3 (with Long & Long gone) ... so why the hell get stuck with the pricetag?

Noop · 04-26-2008, 02:03 PM

They are booing the Phin's oh yes it is on versus the Jets this season.

Raiders Army · 04-26-2008, 02:03 PM

Jets fans: very classy booing the first pick overall.

Ironhead · 04-26-2008, 02:04 PM

The folks over on one of the larger Falcons message boards are threatening bloody murder if the team takes Ryan.

MJ4H · 04-26-2008, 02:06 PM

Falcons fans amuse me.

Noop · 04-26-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironhead

The folks over on one of the larger Falcons message boards are threatening bloody murder if the team takes Ryan.

Then its likely going to be a bloodbath.

JonInMiddleGA · 04-26-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironhead

The folks over on one of the larger Falcons message boards are threatening bloody murder if the team takes Ryan.

It'd be a waste of energy to kill Ryan ... he'll either die playing behind the woeful line or be ready to kill himself when he realizes what he's facing.

edit: Yeah, I know, it ain't Ryan they're wanting to kill but still ...

bhlloy · 04-26-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I'm not sure there's anybody I'd argue for at #3 (with Long & Long gone) ... so why the hell get stuck with the pricetag?

The problem is, I'm not sure anybody else in the league disagrees with you. Hard to trade down when nobody else is really wanting to trade up.

Swaggs · 04-26-2008, 02:07 PM

I think Dorsey, McFadden, and Brohm are all going to be great NFL players.

It amusing how teams manage to find flaws in guys that have been around and have proven themselves for awhile, but fall in love with one-year and workout wonders.

BTW, if Dorsey (who I think is the best player in the draft) falls to the Pats, I'm shooing myself.

Surtt · 04-26-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

I think a team would be willing to trade to 30 to get Henne, IMO. If Brohm, Baker and one of those corners are gone, that means someone like Mayo, Sweed or Cherilus is probably there. Those guys would also make a fairly decent upgrade over the round 2 players at their spots. Still, I think there will be a lot of interest from either Baltimore, the Jets or Atlanta (whomever doesn't land Ryan) to move up and nab Henne (or Brohm) at 30.

I am not sure why Green Bay is looking at QBs other then they have given up on Aron Rodgers. I can not think of another team that has spent a 1st rounder (and the money involved) on a QB they did not expect to play. Rodgers is going to have enough pressure on him following Farve without having another 1st round QB looking over his shoulder.

st.cronin · 04-26-2008, 02:08 PM

JimGa, picture this: You're the Chiefs, and Atlanta offers you the #3 for the #5, straight up. Do you take that deal? I say no. That pretty much sums up Atlanta's problem.

JonInMiddleGA · 04-26-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

The problem is, I'm not sure anybody else in the league disagrees with you. Hard to trade down when nobody else is really wanting to trade up.

I'm just hard pressed to believe that there isn't some GM out there stupid enough to do something.

st.cronin · 04-26-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think Dorsey, McFadden, and Brohm are all going to be great NFL players.

It amusing how teams manage to find flaws in guys that have been around and have proven themselves for awhile, but fall in love with one-year and workout wonders.

BTW, if Dorsey (who I think is the best player in the draft) falls to the Pats, I'm shooing myself.

McFadden, in particular - dude finished 2nd in the Heisman TWICE, playing for only a so-so team.

JonInMiddleGA · 04-26-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

JimGa, picture this: You're the Chiefs, and Atlanta offers you the #3 for the #5, straight up. Do you take that deal? I say no. That pretty much sums up Atlanta's problem.

If that's truly where we're at -- that all the GM's in the league are smart enough not to do it -- then honest to God I'd say you do what you have to: start adding picks to the swap.

Hell, this is the Falcons we're talking about. They've got as good a chance finding a worthwhile undrafted FA as they do in getting something in the draft.

JonInMiddleGA · 04-26-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

McFadden, in particular - dude finished 2nd in the Heisman TWICE, playing for only a so-so team.

Who really wants to draft the next character-challenged guy though?
I'd say he's easily the most athletically talented guy in the draft, by a pretty wide margin even.
But he's also shown signs of being a problem looking for a place to happen.

Raiders Army · 04-26-2008, 02:12 PM

Boo! He should've gone to the Raiders!

Swaggs · 04-26-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surtt

I am not sure why Green Bay is looking at QBs other then they have given up on Aron Rodgers. I can not think of another team that has spent a 1st rounder (and the money involved) on a QB they did not expect to play. Rodgers is going to have enough pressure on him following Farve without having another 1st round QB looking over his shoulder.

Agreed.

Other than maybe Brohm, I don't think any of those guys in the late 1st/early 2nd range is worth building around over Rodgers. Give Rodgers a shot, for at least a year, and draft another talented first rounder before finding a new QB of the future.

Dunleavy · 04-26-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Boo! He should've gone to the Raiders!

i guess but the raiders wouldn't have taken him

MJ4H · 04-26-2008, 02:15 PM

McFadden has no character problems. He has "off-field" problems in that his mother was a crack-addict and he has a large family with brothers that get in fights (that he tries to stop).

I don't think you'll find anyone that says his character is the problem.

The off-field stuff is overblown. McFadden will be fine.

st.cronin · 04-26-2008, 02:16 PM

Rachel Nichols looks so tasty.

JonInMiddleGA · 04-26-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I don't think you'll find anyone that says his character is the problem.

Horseshit.

Two nightclub fights & three pending paternity suits, I don't give a damn if he's got relatives involved in all five incidents, HIS fucking character is dubious at best.

Raiders Army · 04-26-2008, 02:19 PM

Trade the pick Al.

JonInMiddleGA · 04-26-2008, 02:19 PM

Matt Ryan, 3rd overall ... and he'll have a less productive NFL career than Joey Harrington.

Write it down.

Raiders Army · 04-26-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

i guess but the raiders wouldn't have taken him

Tru dat. I hope Al doesn't take McFadden.

MJ4H · 04-26-2008, 02:20 PM

Horseshit right back at you. The club fights were trying to stop his brothers and he never ran from the paternity stuff (which is going to have zero effect on football).

edit: being paralyzed by fear over non-issues on one of the best RBs to ever come through the draft (a paraphrase from several experts quite recently) is how teams wind up drafting busts instead of future stars.

Noop · 04-26-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Horseshit.

Two nightclub fights & three pending paternity suits, I don't give a damn if he's got relatives involved in all five incidents, HIS fucking character is dubious at best.

He likes to have sex I don't think that is a character flaw.

Swaggs · 04-26-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

McFadden has no character problems. He has "off-field" problems in that his mother was a crack-addict and he has a large family with brothers that get in fights (that he tries to stop).

I don't think you'll find anyone that says his character is the problem.

The off-field stuff is overblown. McFadden will be fine.

I think so, too. He can immediately become productive and be the face of one of these down-trodden franchises.

That said, I think it will be better for him to go to a team that is not in the Southeast, so that he is more than a car ride away from his buddies.

st.cronin · 04-26-2008, 02:21 PM

MJ4H, I think I found somebody who says its DMC's character that's the problem. This guy in Georgia, the middle part.

DaddyTorgo · 04-26-2008, 02:21 PM

Matty !!

04-26-2008, 01:19 PM	#104
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Packers will do one of four things at 30: 1. Trade down (30% chance) 2. Take CB Talib or Flowers (30% chance) 3. Take QB Brohm (20% chance) 4. Take OL Sam Baker (20% chance) To be honest, I'd be fine with any of these. I really like Cason, so I wouldn't mind them trading down 4-5 spots and still landing him. I also like Reggie Smith, who should be there when their cleveland pick comes up. For the first time in a while, we don't NEED a starter at any spot, so Ted should go BPA or trade down. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

04-26-2008, 01:20 PM	#105
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	Matt Ryan is a pretty good QB but he is not in my opinion a top-10 QB however Brian Brohm I think is going to be a better pro because his accuracy is the best of the QB's in this class as well as next years. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

04-26-2008, 01:30 PM	#113
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I think the Packers will either take a lineman, or Dustin Keller. If Brohm is there the temptation will probably be to trade down rather than draft him. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-26-2008, 01:32 PM	#115
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Matt Ryan played for a good team, one of his lineman is likely to be a first round pick. That's just nonsense. He's an ok prospect, but not really any different from guys like Kyle Boller, Aaron Rodgers, etc. Its actually pretty hard to tell why he's scouted higher than John David Booty, never mind Brian Brohm. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-26-2008, 01:36 PM	#118
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Booty's from Louisiana, right? So he doesn't even speak English. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-26-2008, 01:17 PM	#101
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	heh...i hope matt ryan makes all you doubters eat your words!

04-26-2008, 01:18 PM	#102
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	I have opened room #fofdraft on dalnet (irc.dal.net) for draft discussion, if people are interested.

04-26-2008, 01:28 PM	#110
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	But those teams projecting to take Ryan will likely see an upgrade at that position?

04-26-2008, 01:59 PM	#121
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	In the words of Rich Eisen: "Let's get this puppy started!"

04-26-2008, 02:03 PM	#123
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	They are booing the Phin's oh yes it is on versus the Jets this season. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

04-26-2008, 02:03 PM	#124
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Jets fans: very classy booing the first pick overall.

04-26-2008, 02:04 PM	#125
Ironhead College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Barnegat, NJ	The folks over on one of the larger Falcons message boards are threatening bloody murder if the team takes Ryan.

04-26-2008, 02:06 PM	#126
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	Falcons fans amuse me. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

04-26-2008, 02:07 PM	#130
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I think Dorsey, McFadden, and Brohm are all going to be great NFL players. It amusing how teams manage to find flaws in guys that have been around and have proven themselves for awhile, but fall in love with one-year and workout wonders. BTW, if Dorsey (who I think is the best player in the draft) falls to the Pats, I'm shooing myself. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

04-26-2008, 02:08 PM	#132
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	JimGa, picture this: You're the Chiefs, and Atlanta offers you the #3 for the #5, straight up. Do you take that deal? I say no. That pretty much sums up Atlanta's problem. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-26-2008, 02:12 PM	#137
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Boo! He should've gone to the Raiders!

04-26-2008, 02:15 PM	#140
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	McFadden has no character problems. He has "off-field" problems in that his mother was a crack-addict and he has a large family with brothers that get in fights (that he tries to stop). I don't think you'll find anyone that says his character is the problem. The off-field stuff is overblown. McFadden will be fine. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

04-26-2008, 02:16 PM	#141
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Rachel Nichols looks so tasty. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-26-2008, 02:19 PM	#143
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Trade the pick Al.

04-26-2008, 02:19 PM	#144
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Matt Ryan, 3rd overall ... and he'll have a less productive NFL career than Joey Harrington. Write it down. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

04-26-2008, 02:20 PM	#146
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	Horseshit right back at you. The club fights were trying to stop his brothers and he never ran from the paternity stuff (which is going to have zero effect on football). edit: being paralyzed by fear over non-issues on one of the best RBs to ever come through the draft (a paraphrase from several experts quite recently) is how teams wind up drafting busts instead of future stars. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona Last edited by MJ4H : 04-26-2008 at 02:21 PM.

04-26-2008, 02:21 PM	#149
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	MJ4H, I think I found somebody who says its DMC's character that's the problem. This guy in Georgia, the middle part. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-26-2008, 02:21 PM	#150
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	Matty !! Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 04-26-2008 at 02:21 PM.

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