1964 Consolation Draft

Young Drachma · 06-29-2008, 03:33 PM

So...I was looking around in the high school feeders and for some reason, there are kids down there over the age of 18, who haven't been properly deposited into our free agency bin.

I felt like this was a travesty.

So I decided to come up with an idea that I'd like to test out with this off-season period to see how it works.

I've looked at the college ranks. What an adventure. 296 players who are stuck down there and a good number of those who could be playable at our level.

In the high school ranks, I've found close to 900 kids between the three HS leagues who are left behind. Not all playable, but more than a few who should be amongst our ranks.

The draft window will begin starting after tomorrow night's export and will go until Thursday night (meaning you need to make your selection before the export on Thursday).

You would post your selection on this thread (not until after the FOOL Classic, though) and the only caveat are that, the picks are first-come, first serve after the first 48 hours. Meaning that draft order is enforced prior to that. What that means is, if you make a selection out of order, a team ahead of you can draft that same player and he'd get them, during the 48-hour period on Monday and Tuesday. After that, it's just first come, first serve.

In an added twist, the two FOOL Classic teams don't get picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Think of it as a consolation auction, complete with fixin's bar and free massages from the league office for a job well done participating all year.

The way this will work is, you pick two players. A high schooler and a college player. Conversely, the high school round is Round 1 and the college round is Round 2. In Round 3, the two FOOL Classic teams (loser then winner), but no one else will pick in that round.

Quote:

DRAFT ORDER
Long Beach Island
St. George Dragons
El Paso Alligators
Chicago Comets
Boston Settlers
Ann Arbor Wolverines
Valdosta Peanuts
Brooklyn Brownstones
Texas Copperheads
Hartford Harpooners
Rio Grande Roadrunners
Colorado Rancheros
New York Highlanders

Tellistto · 06-30-2008, 02:39 PM

Which players do you mean exactly, DC? Just those that are over 19 and are on a team, or all the players that show up when you choose show all players with a filter of over 19 years of age? I admit to some confusion over this process, mainly because it seems like all these kids who aren't on a team should end up in the FA pool for us to sign.

Tell

Tellistto · 06-30-2008, 02:42 PM

Then I reread and you say they are stuck there. Hrm, bug?

Tell

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 03:04 PM

Must be some sort of bug. I have no idea why it doesn't work right. I should post it over in OOTP land, but I haven't gotten around to it yet, because I'd never noticed it until now.

But here's just an example. Look at the Top 20 players list for one of the 3 HS leagues in our universe. None of the kids over 18 should be there, even if they're awful and would never get drafted in our league, they don't play on teams, but they're not being moved up to our league's FA pool.

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 03:05 PM

A better place to look for these players is in-game, because it's not particularly easy to find them in the HTML, since you can't see everyone and they're not "technically" free agents in that league, they just don't have a team to play on.

It's strange.

Tellistto · 06-30-2008, 03:06 PM

There are some serious studs to be in the college ranks too, DC. I see a starting pitcher with all sorts of potential that hasn't played a game since 1962 and we're going into the 1965 season.

Has to be a bug that these guys aren't getting sent into the main FA pool for us.

Tell

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellistto

There are some serious studs to be in the college ranks too, DC. I see a starting pitcher with all sorts of potential that hasn't played a game since 1962 and we're going into the 1965 season.

Has to be a bug that these guys aren't getting sent into the main FA pool for us.

Tell

I'll post it over in OOTP land.

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 03:19 PM

Ok, I've looked at the college ranks. What an adventure. 296 players who are stuck down there and a good number of those who could be playable at our level.

In the high school ranks, I've found close to 900 kids between the three HS leagues who are left behind. Not all playable, but more than a few who should be amongst our ranks.

That's no good. Hmm...

Tellistto · 06-30-2008, 03:21 PM

I thought perhaps the game just hadn't dumped players from those leagues yet, but since many of these kids haven't played a game for 3+ seasons, it's definitely an issue.

Tell

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 03:25 PM

I amended the rules in the first post. We'll do two rounds. One high school pick, one college pick. Same draft rules apply. After that, the two FOOL classic teams will get to make one pick in the 3rd round (and only those two teams will pick in the 3rd round) because well..that only seems fair.

Won't really clean up all of the players junked down there, but...it's a start I think.

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellistto

I thought perhaps the game just hadn't dumped players from those leagues yet, but since many of these kids haven't played a game for 3+ seasons, it's definitely an issue.

Tell

Yeah, it's clearly a bug. I doubt it'll get fixed either. So...it might be a conversion issue because I haven't seen it with my other leagues. But it's possible it's a bigger issue.

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 03:28 PM

I'll create a separate thread for the draft, btw. Just to eliminate confusion.

Tellistto · 06-30-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Yeah, it's clearly a bug. I doubt it'll get fixed either. So...it might be a conversion issue because I haven't seen it with my other leagues. But it's possible it's a bigger issue.

Looks like there is a LOT of talent in those four feeder leagues that is stuck. I know you think that it's possibly a conversion issue, but it had to have started happening in version 8 since I see kids in the college ranks who haven't been on a team since 1961 and 1962 and 1963. It's entirely possible the bug was in 8 and not so much in 9. Only way we could really know that is if we move all those kids out of there stuck area and see if they keep getting stuck next season.

On another note...is it possible that we have some serious overload of talent going on in this league?

Tell

gstelmack · 06-30-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellistto

On another note...is it possible that we have some serious overload of talent going on in this league?

Maybe with the guys stuck down there, but I actually feel like there is a lack of quality talent at our level. I don't even have enough players over 1* potential to fill my AAA roster, and there aren't many out there in FA land. If we can't get these guys unstuck and in the FA pool, it's going to make this league difficult to run.

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Maybe with the guys stuck down there, but I actually feel like there is a lack of quality talent at our level. I don't even have enough players over 1* potential to fill my AAA roster, and there aren't many out there in FA land. If we can't get these guys unstuck and in the FA pool, it's going to make this league difficult to run.

I think the kids who are 19 are actually kids who JUST turned 19 and who were 18 during the season. The ones who are 20 are the ones who are stuck for some reason.

I don't think it's a recurring problem and I think that we'll be able to tell after next season if it was merely a conversion problem or not. It might have been an OOTP2007 problem that's been fixed in OOTP9, because well...our kids came up last season and we didn't see any problems last week with those players.

So we'll try this method this year, delete the rest and then we'll see what we have from there. I think it'll be okay though overall.

Tellistto · 06-30-2008, 03:58 PM

Hmm, I'm thinking we should know a lot more after tonights sim, it's obvious that the draft pool hasn't been dumped into FA yet, but I'd expect this to happen after the playoffs. There were plenty of rookie FA's in the pool when we got the file this past week, and the playoffs were done already.

No conclusions until I see the file tonight, I think.

Tell

Edit: If there are players in those lists after the draft pool has been dumped who were on teams in 1964, it's a bug with this version of the game. If the only players that are left in those lists are the players that haven't been on teams since 1963, I think it was a problem with the prior version used. Hopefully all these guys get dumped, but until the dump happens, we won't know.

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellistto

Hmm, I'm thinking we should know a lot more after tonights sim, it's obvious that the draft pool hasn't been dumped into FA yet, but I'd expect this to happen after the playoffs. There were plenty of rookie FA's in the pool when we got the file this past week, and the playoffs were done already.

No conclusions until I see the file tonight, I think.

Tell

Edit: If there are players in those lists after the draft pool has been dumped who were on teams in 1964, it's a bug with this version of the game. If the only players that are left in those lists are the players that haven't been on teams since 1963, I think it was a problem with the prior version used. Hopefully all these guys get dumped, but until the dump happens, we won't know.

Yeah, exactly. I won't initiate a draft thread until we see for sure.

Tellistto · 06-30-2008, 11:16 PM

Damn, every one of those players stayed where they were. Even some of the players on the highschool list had teams in 64 are still stuck there.

Are we going to try to put all the kids with potential who don't get drafted into the FA pool? Is that even possible to do?

Tell

Young Drachma · 06-30-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellistto

Damn, every one of those players stayed where they were. Even some of the players on the highschool list had teams in 64 are still stuck there.

Are we going to try to put all the kids with potential who don't get drafted into the FA pool? Is that even possible to do?

Tell

Yeah, I can make them free agents after we draft players. That sucks that it didn't work.

Commo_Soldier · 07-01-2008, 02:39 AM

If this continues in future years, I would suggest that teams be placed on the clock.

For example round one is the first 24 hours and the first team can make their selection from 0000 - 0145 then the second team can pick from 0145 - 0330 and third team 0330 - 0515 and so on.

The only catch is a team may draft sooner if the team before them has already drafted, however a teams latest draft time will never be sooner because the team that drafted before them drafted before they had to. This will give players knowledge of knowing for certain when they can make their pick and may help speed things up. Without a setup like this we may and probably will at some point run into a problem where an owner does not make a selection and no one behind them will select anyone until this person makes their pick and then it will be a first come first serve which defeats the purpose of the order. Granted the tiem drawn may not be convienent for an owner, but if they really care they can get up during their time to make a selection or give their list of players in order. This is just a thought that may help this part of the league if it becomes a permanent fixture.

Chief Rum · 07-01-2008, 04:27 AM

When is this draft happening again? Just checking.

Young Drachma · 07-01-2008, 08:35 AM

I'm debating the merits of this idea in retrospect. (That's what I get for thinking out loud, eh?)

I like the idea in theory, it just seems to run counter to how we do things and well..it's a lot of work and still doesn't really solve our problem of disposing of all of that talent, as it's a lot more players than I realized (I assumed initially it was a few players, when really it's almost a season's worth of picks)

I think what we'll do instead then, is...I'll make them all free agents in time for tonight's export. You'll sign them like you sign regular new draft picks into the league. The only hitch, is that anyone not making the FOOL Classic this year will get an "exempted player" allocation they can use on any rookie.

Means that you can offer whatever you want to get any incoming rookie (yes, even rookies not part of the "lost class") and it won't count against your cap and that player will be reverted to a minor league deal.

You can claim this for one player and one player only and it HAS to be a rookie coming directly from high school or college.

This way, it's still the free market at play, keeps the strategy element and well...get too reckless and you'll be saddled with more than you can afford. So you know, choose carefully.

I'll create that thread instead and call it "1964 Consolation Exemptions" and you can list the player will you wish to claim on that page.

It's less work for me too. And I'll for that.

Chief Rum · 07-01-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm debating the merits of this idea in retrospect. (That's what I get for thinking out loud, eh?)

I like the idea in theory, it just seems to run counter to how we do things and well..it's a lot of work and still doesn't really solve our problem of disposing of all of that talent, as it's a lot more players than I realized (I assumed initially it was a few players, when really it's almost a season's worth of picks)

I think what we'll do instead then, is...I'll make them all free agents in time for tonight's export. You'll sign them like you sign regular new draft picks into the league. The only hitch, is that anyone not making the FOOL Classic this year will get an "exempted player" allocation they can use on any rookie.

Means that you can offer whatever you want to get any incoming rookie (yes, even rookies not part of the "lost class") and it won't count against your cap and that player will be reverted to a minor league deal.

You can claim this for one player and one player only and it HAS to be a rookie coming directly from high school or college.

This way, it's still the free market at play, keeps the strategy element and well...get too reckless and you'll be saddled with more than you can afford. So you know, choose carefully.

I'll create that thread instead and call it "1964 Consolation Exemptions" and you can list the player will you wish to claim on that page.

It's less work for me too. And I'll for that.

Crap. I have already exported for tonight, and I am leaving all day and won't be back until after the sim. Am I SOL? Or do you mean you will set this up to be apparent in tonight's im, and we will make our choices or whatever for tomorrow's night's sim?

Young Drachma · 07-01-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Crap. I have already exported for tonight, and I am leaving all day and won't be back until after the sim. Am I SOL? Or do you mean you will set this up to be apparent in tonight's im, and we will make our choices or whatever for tomorrow's night's sim?

You'll have from tonight's sim to Thursday night's sim to do what you want, because this exemption is really based on the stuck players anyway and I haven't made them free agents in our league yet, so I'll have to go through and do that manually before they'll be available for anyone to sign.

That won't happen until after you import the file that I send up tonight. So you're fine and you don't even have to know what player you want to use it on until well after you've assessed all of the kids you've signed. So it doesn't change much, other than saving you all a lot of time trying to troll through the HS and College leagues to figure out who to sign.

gstelmack · 07-01-2008, 09:01 AM

(Steve Martin Voice)

I am sooo confuuuuuuuuuuuuussssed

(/Steve Martin Voice)

Do I sign these guys to some ridiculous contract, then decide exemption and you revert it?

Or is this a draft where I pick a guy and you stuff him on my roster?

Or do I say who I want and trust that no one else will then put an offer in on them?

Or am I picking among guys no one can make an offer on yet?

Young Drachma · 07-01-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

(Steve Martin Voice)

I am sooo confuuuuuuuuuuuuussssed

(/Steve Martin Voice)

Do I sign these guys to some ridiculous contract, then decide exemption and you revert it?

Yeah, pretty much. It's just one player that you get exempted on, so I dunno if it's wise to try it with more than a few guys unless you really want 'em or are sure other folks are bidding.

Tellistto · 07-01-2008, 04:10 PM

You know, I just realized that not a single one of the rookie FA's that got dumped from the draft pool had a team in the past. I also looked at the draft pool and I don't see, out of the ones I looked at, any that had a contract with a team in the high school or college league.

I honestly believe that there has not been a single player come from the high school or college level into the FA pool in the history of this league, and by the looks of it there never will be. None of those kids are being put into the draft pool to get dumped.

Tell

Young Drachma · 07-01-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellistto

You know, I just realized that not a single one of the rookie FA's that got dumped from the draft pool had a team in the past. I also looked at the draft pool and I don't see, out of the ones I looked at, any that had a contract with a team in the high school or college league.

I honestly believe that there has not been a single player come from the high school or college level into the FA pool in the history of this league, and by the looks of it there never will be. None of those kids are being put into the draft pool to get dumped.

Tell

Seems you are right.

I think that my only idea is to delete the feeders, making almost all of those kids free agents. The rules are setup in our league to ensure you can't anyone until they're 18, so that'll prevent the high schoolers from coming in.

Then we can just let the game generate prospects, since there seems to be a problem, until I can set aside time to figure out why this is happening. I'd never seen a problem in any of my test leagues, which makes me believe that it's a conversion issue and that if I theoretically create a new feeder league in this version, that it'd work as intended.

Because none of my other leagues give me problems.

06-30-2008, 02:39 PM	#2
Tellistto College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Whitman, MA	Which players do you mean exactly, DC? Just those that are over 19 and are on a team, or all the players that show up when you choose show all players with a filter of over 19 years of age? I admit to some confusion over this process, mainly because it seems like all these kids who aren't on a team should end up in the FA pool for us to sign. Tell __________________ FOOL - Ann Arbor Winged Lingerines FOOLX - Portland Axemen Hattrick - Fizzle United (222968)

06-30-2008, 02:42 PM	#3
Tellistto College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Whitman, MA	Then I reread and you say they are stuck there. Hrm, bug? Tell __________________ FOOL - Ann Arbor Winged Lingerines FOOLX - Portland Axemen Hattrick - Fizzle United (222968)

06-30-2008, 03:06 PM	#6
Tellistto College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Whitman, MA	There are some serious studs to be in the college ranks too, DC. I see a starting pitcher with all sorts of potential that hasn't played a game since 1962 and we're going into the 1965 season. Has to be a bug that these guys aren't getting sent into the main FA pool for us. Tell __________________ FOOL - Ann Arbor Winged Lingerines FOOLX - Portland Axemen Hattrick - Fizzle United (222968)

06-30-2008, 03:21 PM	#9
Tellistto College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Whitman, MA	I thought perhaps the game just hadn't dumped players from those leagues yet, but since many of these kids haven't played a game for 3+ seasons, it's definitely an issue. Tell __________________ FOOL - Ann Arbor Winged Lingerines FOOLX - Portland Axemen Hattrick - Fizzle United (222968)

06-30-2008, 03:58 PM	#16
Tellistto College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Whitman, MA	Hmm, I'm thinking we should know a lot more after tonights sim, it's obvious that the draft pool hasn't been dumped into FA yet, but I'd expect this to happen after the playoffs. There were plenty of rookie FA's in the pool when we got the file this past week, and the playoffs were done already. No conclusions until I see the file tonight, I think. Tell Edit: If there are players in those lists after the draft pool has been dumped who were on teams in 1964, it's a bug with this version of the game. If the only players that are left in those lists are the players that haven't been on teams since 1963, I think it was a problem with the prior version used. Hopefully all these guys get dumped, but until the dump happens, we won't know. __________________ FOOL - Ann Arbor Winged Lingerines FOOLX - Portland Axemen Hattrick - Fizzle United (222968) Last edited by Tellistto : 06-30-2008 at 04:01 PM.

06-30-2008, 03:04 PM	#4
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Must be some sort of bug. I have no idea why it doesn't work right. I should post it over in OOTP land, but I haven't gotten around to it yet, because I'd never noticed it until now. But here's just an example. Look at the Top 20 players list for one of the 3 HS leagues in our universe. None of the kids over 18 should be there, even if they're awful and would never get drafted in our league, they don't play on teams, but they're not being moved up to our league's FA pool.

06-30-2008, 03:05 PM	#5
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	A better place to look for these players is in-game, because it's not particularly easy to find them in the HTML, since you can't see everyone and they're not "technically" free agents in that league, they just don't have a team to play on. It's strange.

06-30-2008, 03:19 PM	#8
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Ok, I've looked at the college ranks. What an adventure. 296 players who are stuck down there and a good number of those who could be playable at our level. In the high school ranks, I've found close to 900 kids between the three HS leagues who are left behind. Not all playable, but more than a few who should be amongst our ranks. That's no good. Hmm...

06-30-2008, 03:25 PM	#10
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	I amended the rules in the first post. We'll do two rounds. One high school pick, one college pick. Same draft rules apply. After that, the two FOOL classic teams will get to make one pick in the 3rd round (and only those two teams will pick in the 3rd round) because well..that only seems fair. Won't really clean up all of the players junked down there, but...it's a start I think.

06-30-2008, 03:28 PM	#12
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	I'll create a separate thread for the draft, btw. Just to eliminate confusion.

06-30-2008, 11:16 PM	#18
Tellistto College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Whitman, MA	Damn, every one of those players stayed where they were. Even some of the players on the highschool list had teams in 64 are still stuck there. Are we going to try to put all the kids with potential who don't get drafted into the FA pool? Is that even possible to do? Tell __________________ FOOL - Ann Arbor Winged Lingerines FOOLX - Portland Axemen Hattrick - Fizzle United (222968)

07-01-2008, 02:39 AM	#20
Commo_Soldier College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: JBLM, WA	If this continues in future years, I would suggest that teams be placed on the clock. For example round one is the first 24 hours and the first team can make their selection from 0000 - 0145 then the second team can pick from 0145 - 0330 and third team 0330 - 0515 and so on. The only catch is a team may draft sooner if the team before them has already drafted, however a teams latest draft time will never be sooner because the team that drafted before them drafted before they had to. This will give players knowledge of knowing for certain when they can make their pick and may help speed things up. Without a setup like this we may and probably will at some point run into a problem where an owner does not make a selection and no one behind them will select anyone until this person makes their pick and then it will be a first come first serve which defeats the purpose of the order. Granted the tiem drawn may not be convienent for an owner, but if they really care they can get up during their time to make a selection or give their list of players in order. This is just a thought that may help this part of the league if it becomes a permanent fixture. Last edited by Commo_Soldier : 07-01-2008 at 03:17 AM.

07-01-2008, 04:27 AM	#21
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	When is this draft happening again? Just checking. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

07-01-2008, 08:35 AM	#22
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	I'm debating the merits of this idea in retrospect. (That's what I get for thinking out loud, eh?) I like the idea in theory, it just seems to run counter to how we do things and well..it's a lot of work and still doesn't really solve our problem of disposing of all of that talent, as it's a lot more players than I realized (I assumed initially it was a few players, when really it's almost a season's worth of picks) I think what we'll do instead then, is...I'll make them all free agents in time for tonight's export. You'll sign them like you sign regular new draft picks into the league. The only hitch, is that anyone not making the FOOL Classic this year will get an "exempted player" allocation they can use on any rookie. Means that you can offer whatever you want to get any incoming rookie (yes, even rookies not part of the "lost class") and it won't count against your cap and that player will be reverted to a minor league deal. You can claim this for one player and one player only and it HAS to be a rookie coming directly from high school or college. This way, it's still the free market at play, keeps the strategy element and well...get too reckless and you'll be saddled with more than you can afford. So you know, choose carefully. I'll create that thread instead and call it "1964 Consolation Exemptions" and you can list the player will you wish to claim on that page. It's less work for me too. And I'll for that.

07-01-2008, 09:01 AM	#25
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	(Steve Martin Voice) I am sooo confuuuuuuuuuuuuussssed (/Steve Martin Voice) Do I sign these guys to some ridiculous contract, then decide exemption and you revert it? Or is this a draft where I pick a guy and you stuff him on my roster? Or do I say who I want and trust that no one else will then put an offer in on them? Or am I picking among guys no one can make an offer on yet? __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

07-01-2008, 04:10 PM	#27
Tellistto College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Whitman, MA	You know, I just realized that not a single one of the rookie FA's that got dumped from the draft pool had a team in the past. I also looked at the draft pool and I don't see, out of the ones I looked at, any that had a contract with a team in the high school or college league. I honestly believe that there has not been a single player come from the high school or college level into the FA pool in the history of this league, and by the looks of it there never will be. None of those kids are being put into the draft pool to get dumped. Tell __________________ FOOL - Ann Arbor Winged Lingerines FOOLX - Portland Axemen Hattrick - Fizzle United (222968)

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