A couple of bugs

[Firefly]

One is old, the other is new.

The old bug, if it hasn't been reported already, is that a team will not pass in the last 2 minutes of the first half when close to the opponents endzone, regardless of down and distance. I believe it starts somewhere around the 15, definitely at the 10.


The new bug, at least I'd never seen it before, has to do with the Standings screen. Here's what just happened in the AUFL:


-Before the last week of the season, New Orleans had not secured a playoff ticket, per the Standings screen.

-The only team that could catch them was Memphis

-New Orleans lost

-Memphis won

Therefore,

The Saints are in the playoffs??? Yup, that's what happened.


Anyone seen this before?

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Firefly

One is old, the other is new.

The old bug, if it hasn't been reported already, is that a team will not pass in the last 2 minutes of the first half when close to the opponents endzone, regardless of down and distance. I believe it starts somewhere around the 15, definitely at the 10.

Researching...

Originally Posted by Firefly

-The only team that could catch them was Memphis

Actually, Minnesota is the team that could have caught them. Had Minnesota won in Week 17 against Denver, then they would have beaten them on the common games tiebreaker.

[Firefly]

Not so: if Minnesota had beaten the Broncos, they would have won their division, since GB was 1/2 game behind them at the start of the week.

[MalcPow]

I'm pretty sure the colored circles next to teams on the standings screen represent a very superficial comparison of records and not a true account of all the tiebreakers that are resolved following Week 17. So a team with a gray circle that appears to still be alive for a playoff slot may not actually have any chance at all due to head to head or any of the other tiebreakers. So take the colored circles with a grain of salt. (I guess that qualifies as a bug.)

On your first bug, I've never noticed that. It'd be surprising to me, but I'll pay closer attention from here on out.

Edit to add: The issue with the circles is not new to this version...

[Firefly]

That sucks. I would have trusted those colors with my life.

About the first bug, I should add that it's happened to me about 7-10 times in the last couple of seasons in my different leagues, for some reason. And I've grown used to the fact that, unless I punch it in with the run in as many tries as time and downs allow, it's FG time, baby.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Firefly

Not so: if Minnesota had beaten the Broncos, they would have won their division, since GB was 1/2 game behind them at the start of the week.

Ahh.. gotcha. That's what I get for just working off the records of the teams in play.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by MalcPow

I'm pretty sure the colored circles next to teams on the standings screen represent a very superficial comparison of records and not a true account of all the tiebreakers that are resolved following Week 17. So a team with a gray circle that appears to still be alive for a playoff slot may not actually have any chance at all due to head to head or any of the other tiebreakers. So take the colored circles with a grain of salt. (I guess that qualifies as a bug.)

I'm pretty sure we had this exact discussion in one of my leagues (not sure which one, but I'm thinking WOOF) well prior to 6.2, and that as you say, it's pre-existing.

On your first bug, I've never noticed that. It'd be surprising to me, but I'll pay closer attention from here on out.

I'm not sure about *never* passing, but I know that it seems rare (and again, as the original poster said, this has been there a while).

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Firefly

The old bug, if it hasn't been reported already, is that a team will not pass in the last 2 minutes of the first half when close to the opponents endzone, regardless of down and distance. I believe it starts somewhere around the 15, definitely at the 10.

Looking at a more restrictive (i.e. grep-friendly) case, in a 30-year SP league (on 6.1), with under 1 minute to play, inside the opponent's 10 yard line, there were a total of 17 passes thrown, all (tying in nicely to another recent thread) out of the Five-Receiver Spread formation. I'm guessing that the run chance is 100% unless the spread formation is chosen.

Incidentally, those 17 passes:
11-17, 42 yards, 8 TD, Int (83.6 QB Rating)

[Firefly]

Well, I don't use the Spread in 2 of my 3 leagues, and not very much in the third, so it's possible I have never used it in those situations since I started noticing this. That would explain why not everybody has noticed it, too.

I'd still call it a bug, though.


This is the latest example, just for the fun of it:

1-10-MEM19 (2Q: 03:57) Doug Williams pass fell incomplete, intended for FB Stan Edwards. DT Rubin Carter drove right through Guy Bingham to hurry the quarterback.

2-10-MEM19 (2Q: 03:48) Doug Williams pass completed to WR Derek Holloway for 9 yards. Tackled by CB Mike Washington.

3-1-MEM28 (2Q: 03:10) Bo Matthews ran inside the right guard for 3 yards. Tackled by DE Lee Roy Selmon, assisted by DT Rubin Carter. Key block delivered by Stan Edwards.

1-10-MEM31 (2Q: 02:48) PENALTY: Memphis was called for a False Start.

1-15-MEM26 (2Q: 02:48) Ken Lacy ran inside the left guard for 3 yards. Tackled by S Beasley Reece, assisted by OLB Jeff Barnes. PENALTY: Tampa Bay was called for Unnecessary Roughness.

1-10-MEM44 (2Q: 02:41) Doug Williams pass completed to WR Derek Holloway for 11 yards. Tackled by S John Sciarra, assisted by CB Steve Wilson. The receiver ran his route right over the middle of the field. The quarterback threw into double coverage.

1-10-TBY45 (2Q: 02:21) Doug Williams pass completed to WR Anthony Carter for 9 yards. Tackled by OLB Hugh Green.

2-1-TBY36 (2Q: 02:04) Doug Williams pass fell incomplete, intended for WR Eric Truvillion. S John Sciarra defended the pass.

Official time out for the two-minute warning.

3-1-TBY36 (2Q: 01:56) Ken Lacy ran inside the left guard for 8 yards. Tackled by DT Rubin Carter. Key block delivered by Dave Huffman. Huffman flattened Tom Holmoe to ensure the play's success.

1-10-TBY28 (2Q: 01:35) Doug Williams pass fell incomplete, intended for FB Andra Franklin. OLB Fred McNeil defended the pass.

2-10-TBY28 (2Q: 01:30) Doug Williams pass completed to WR Derek Holloway for 10 yards. Tackled by OLB Fred McNeil. The quarterback threw into double coverage.

1-10-TBY18 (2Q: 01:11) Doug Williams pass completed to WR Anthony Carter for 10 yards. The receiver went out of bounds. Tackled by CB Steve Wilson, assisted by S John Sciarra. The receiver ran his route right over the middle of the field. PENALTY: Tampa Bay was called for Defensive Holding. The penalty was declined.

1-8-TBY08 (2Q: 01:04) Ken Lacy ran inside the left guard for -1 yards. Tackled by DT Rubin Carter.

2-9-TBY09 (2Q: 00:43) Ken Lacy ran inside the left tackle for 2 yards. Tackled by OLB Fred McNeil.

Memphis called a time out.

3-7-TBY07 (2Q: 00:34) Bo Matthews ran inside the right tackle for 7 yards and a TOUCHDOWN! Key block delivered by Dave Huffman. Tampa Bay 13, Memphis 9

It's a nice long 14 play drive. First 11 plays: 3 runs and 8 passes. Once inside the 10: 3 runs, 0 passes. Nothing out of the ordinary :sigh: I was lucky to score from 7 yards out on 3rd down, but it's not the most common result, as you can imagine.

[sovereignstar]

Suicane was talking about that first item before FOF 2k7 came out.

[johnnyshaka]

Cleveland: Goal-Line formation with three tight ends, strength is right. The defense is in a 43 with goal-line personnel and 2-deep man-to-man coverage, expecting the run. 2-2-PHI02 (2Q: 02:00) Norm Dotson ran inside the left tackle for 0 yards. Tackled by OLB Glen Lund.

Cleveland: Pro formation, with the second receiver in the slot, strength is left. The defense is in a 43 and 3-deep zone coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 3-2-PHI02 (2Q: 01:42) Byron Leftwich pass completed to WR Ronnie Clements for 2 yards and a TOUCHDOWN! Cleveland 12, Philadelphia 0

(2Q: 01:42) Extra point by Percy Robinson was good. Cleveland 13, Philadelphia 0

(2Q: 01:36) Percy Robinson kicked off 79 yards from the CLE30. Touchback.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I can scarcely believe my eyes!

Hm... wait a minute! Are you sure you don't have your settings for 2-minute offense turned to zero?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Firefly

I can scarcely believe my eyes!

Hm... wait a minute! Are you sure you don't have your settings for 2-minute offense turned to zero?

Great question...but I was on defense so I'm not the right person to ask in this situation.

[cuervo72]

Hmm...I remember complaining about that in one of my recent games, how it went against what I had set as a pretty heavily weighted pass % in the red zone. Didn't realize it would nearly *always* do that.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Firefly

The new bug, at least I'd never seen it before, has to do with the Standings screen. Here's what just happened in the AUFL:


-Before the last week of the season, New Orleans had not secured a playoff ticket, per the Standings screen.

-The only team that could catch them was Memphis

-New Orleans lost

-Memphis won

Therefore,

The Saints are in the playoffs??? Yup, that's what happened.


Anyone seen this before?

Not new at all.
Personally I wouldn't call this a bug, but rather a quirk, or something that takes too much time to code, the energy is better spent elsewhere.

What you're missing here is what the colored dots on the standings screen mean. FOF only shows which teams secured a division or wild card based on wins, until week 17 rolls around.
That doesn't mean the standings in weeks 1 through 16 are wrong, because they are right, it just means that the 'clinch dots' are handed out based on relative simple math.

[Firefly]

I don't know MIJB, I'm pretty sure the color codes are right most of the time, and that they have shown a team to be eliminated when simple math says they're not. I'm not 100%, but I've always trusted them and this is the first time I ever found them to be "wrong".

[Front Office Midget]

I'm pretty sure that the colored dots don't factor in tiebreakers at all. They often show a team CAN make a playoff spot, even if they can't.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Firefly

I don't know MIJB, I'm pretty sure the color codes are right most of the time, and that they have shown a team to be eliminated when simple math says they're not. I'm not 100%, but I've always trusted them and this is the first time I ever found them to be "wrong".

The colored dots mostly reflect wildcard chances. A team can be marked in the gold "eliminated" color when it still has a chance to win the division if it has no chance at the wildcard.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Firefly

I don't know MIJB, I'm pretty sure the color codes are right most of the time, and that they have shown a team to be eliminated when simple math says they're not. I'm not 100%, but I've always trusted them and this is the first time I ever found them to be "wrong".

Look, I've looked at this part of the game long and often enough to think I know what I'm talking about. There's a good reason why I've written clinch scenarios for a couple of FOF MP leagues over the past 3 real life years, it's because between FOF2004 and FOF2007 6.1a it worked as decribed below (and because I really like doing tat stuff). Unless there has been a 'fix' in 6.2 (which I haven't had a chance to figure out yet), things should still work as I describe below.

There are six colors:
division leader = shiny blue
clinched division = paler blue
in wild card position = shiny red
clinched wild card = paler red/brown
in wild card race = grey
out of wild card race = green/gold

shiny blue = team leading the division, with a lead in # of wins equal or less than the # of games left.
paler blue = team leading the division, with a lead in # of wins bigger than the # of games left.
shiny red = team in wild card position, with a lead in # of wins equal or less than the # of games left.
paler red/brown = team in wild card position, with a lead in # of wins bigger than the # of games left.
grey = team not leading division or in wild card position, trailing the teams in wild card positions by # of wins equal or smaller than # of games left.
green/gold = team not leading division or in wild card position, trailing the teams in wild card positions by # of wins greater than # of games left.

Important note: this is how it works in weeks 1 through 16, in week 17, the games trusts the tie-breakers order and replaces "unclinched dots" with "clinched dots".