Did this teacher cross the line?

MrBug708 · 03-04-2009, 09:43 PM

Sort of relevant to the Guns question.

FOXNews.com - Professor Takes Heat for Calling Cops on Student Who Discussed Guns in Class - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Long story short: Student gives topic on students carrying guns, teacher calls cops, cops investigate whether or not student has guns on campus.

Should this teacher get in trouble? Or just being a dick?

BrianD · 03-04-2009, 09:46 PM

If the teacher believed there was any level of risk, why not call it in?

gstelmack · 03-04-2009, 09:53 PM

I would need to know why the teacher thought there was some risk. On the surface it sure smacks of a knee-jerk reaction ("Hey, the kid likes guns, we need to do something about that!"), but there is zero info on the reason for calling the police. We'd need to know the details of the presentation before making a judgement. I could see the teacher being a left-wing commie liberal nutjob (like some I've run into) trying to crush gun rights wherever they are found, and I could also see the student giving a right-wing neo-nazi "Kill 'em all, let god sort them out" presentation. Until I know which is the case, I can't really comment.

Noop · 03-04-2009, 10:05 PM

Jebus Thrist. That teacher needs to get a life, I hope she is fired for her stupidity.

Groundhog · 03-04-2009, 10:09 PM

Imagine the headlines if a kid discussed guns in class, teacher didn't call the cops, and the kid then shoots somebody. If I were a teacher in the States, i'd probably do the same, to protect my own ass if nothing else.

sterlingice · 03-04-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Imagine the headlines if a kid discussed guns in class, teacher didn't call the cops, and the kid then shoots somebody. If I were a teacher in the States, i'd probably do the same, to protect my own ass if nothing else.

Unfortunately, my first thought as well

SI

ISiddiqui · 03-04-2009, 11:33 PM

Yeah, it seemed like a CYA move to me as well.

SFL Cat · 03-04-2009, 11:38 PM

Sad statement on life today.

Lathum · 03-05-2009, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Sad statement on life today.

It is but I also see the teachers POV given limited information, like Groundhog said, imagine the backlash if something had happened.

What I don't understand is didn't the professor or a TA know what the presentation topic was?

MrBug708 · 03-05-2009, 01:43 AM

I dont think there would be any backlash. I mean, why would there be? If it was that much of a threat though, I hope he got an A

Izulde · 03-05-2009, 12:07 PM

On the face of it, it seems an overzealous move by the professor. I suspect there has to be more to the story than just the bare facts that article gives.

King of New York · 03-05-2009, 12:11 PM

Without hearing the actual presentation, it's hard to know who was right and who was wrong. If the student made the case in a calm, rational, non-intimidating way, then the professor (and the campus police) overreacted. If the student's behavior during the presentation was not calm or rational, then the professor and the police did the right thing.

RainMaker · 03-05-2009, 12:45 PM

I'd have to hear the presentation too to make a judgment. But I don't think you can ever be too cautious about these incidents. I will say that if I was a parent, I would rather the teacher be overly cautious. Perhaps the best solution would be to have the teacher contact the Dean and ask for their opinion on the matter before calling the cops.

JPhillips · 03-05-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King of New York

Without hearing the actual presentation, it's hard to know who was right and who was wrong. If the student made the case in a calm, rational, non-intimidating way, then the professor (and the campus police) overreacted. If the student's behavior during the presentation was not calm or rational, then the professor and the police did the right thing.

Even a calm, rational speech could raise issues. What if the student said something along the lines of, " I have guns and in a situation like VaTech I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself." Hearing that it would be rational to assume the student had a gun on campus and assuming that the only proper response would be to involve the police.

At the end of the day I don't get the outrage. The cops checked him out, found nothing wrong and moved on. Isn't that the best scenario here?

larrymcg421 · 03-05-2009, 12:52 PM

It sure sounds like one of those dastardly liberals trying to thwart the rights of law abiding gun owners!

The article is missing alot of details. I suspect there's a reason for that. Or it could just be shoddy journalism.

sterlingice · 03-05-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

It sure sounds like one of those dastardly liberals trying to thwart the rights of law abiding gun owners!

The article is missing alot of details. I suspect there's a reason for that. Or it could just be shoddy journalism.

(I thought that since this report was from Fox News, that shoddy journalism would be the reason for that

)

SI

Mustang · 03-05-2009, 12:55 PM

Must be a slow news day if we are reporting on something from October. And in other news, John Bell accepted the Whig Party's nomination for President.

cthomer5000 · 03-05-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Imagine the headlines if a kid discussed guns in class, teacher didn't call the cops, and the kid then shoots somebody. If I were a teacher in the States, i'd probably do the same, to protect my own ass if nothing else.

Agreed. This is the age we live in, he has to make the call really.

Draft Dodger · 03-05-2009, 01:01 PM

I don't really see the issue here. Professor thinks there's a cause to call police. Police check it out, decide there's no problem. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. No one was arrested. Why is this a problem?

sterlingice · 03-05-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang

Must be a slow news day if we are reporting on something from October. And in other news, John Bell accepted the Whig Party's nomination for President.

Again, crack Fox News reporting

SI

JediKooter · 03-05-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang

Must be a slow news day if we are reporting on something from October. And in other news, John Bell accepted the Whig Party's nomination for President.

And where is the Whig party now? Have not heard a peep out of them.

watravaler · 03-05-2009, 02:18 PM

As other have said, without information regarding the presentation/student, I can't really call the move good or bad.

larrymcg421 · 03-05-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I don't really see the issue here. Professor thinks there's a cause to call police. Police check it out, decide there's no problem. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. No one was arrested. Why is this a problem?

Shhhhhhh. There are NRA donations at stake here.

Fighter of Foo · 03-05-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

If the teacher believed there was any level of risk, why not call it in?

Because that's stupid.

LoneStarGirl · 03-05-2009, 06:01 PM

As a high school teacher I would have NOT called the cops for the primary reason that it would be breaking the chain of command. If you have an suspicion of a student being abused at home, doing drugs, carrying a gun, etc, you have to tell the student's counselor and the vice principal. Its their decision whether or not cops should be involved.

JPhillips · 03-05-2009, 06:05 PM

At the collegiate level things work differently. My Department Chair, Division Chair and eventually Dean would encourage me to handle these problems without needing to involve others. The Chain of Command is much weaker at many colleges.

cougarfreak · 03-05-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

As a high school teacher I would have NOT called the cops for the primary reason that it would be breaking the chain of command. If you have an suspicion of a student being abused at home, doing drugs, carrying a gun, etc, you have to tell the student's counselor and the vice principal. Its their decision whether or not cops should be involved.

Not in KY., it's required (BY LAW) I either call a police hotline, or a state level hotline. Then I report it to an administrator.

PurdueBrad · 03-05-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Not in KY., it's required (BY LAW) I either call a police hotline, or a state level hotline. Then I report it to an administrator.

Ditto Illinois Cougar. We hare mandated reporters and therefore have to go to the proper legal authorities. Technically, we never even really have to tell our administrators but it does help.

cougarfreak · 03-05-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Ditto Illinois Cougar. We hare mandated reporters and therefore have to go to the proper legal authorities. Technically, we never even really have to tell our administrators but it does help.

And boy........is it a boatload of fun. This summer, one of my soccer players told me her b/f hit her (and I confirmed HIT, not playing around or anything else). I reported it. The next day, after practice, I had the girl, the boy, and both sets of parents threatening everything from my job, to suing me. Of course, the girl denied she ever told me that, and the girl's mother told me "her daughter doesn't lie". I let them say their bit, then informed them of the law, told them why would I make something like this up, it's more of a pain in the ass for me than anything, then told them they could have my job if they really wanted it. They didn't take me up on my offer. I was glad that I had told an administrator about it, and his answer when I told him of the confrontation was he'd make sure the state did a full blown investigation of the parents and the kids relationship if they pursued anything against me. Sometimes I hate my job garbage I have to put up with. I'll tell you this, I'm not coaching next year.

Greyroofoo · 03-05-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

And where is the Whig party now? Have not heard a peep out of them.

The Modern Whig Party

So pretty much nowhere.

RendeR · 03-06-2009, 11:17 AM

I think the problem we have here is piss poor journalism. There are not enough facts for anyone to discern the real situation in this case.

If the teacher had a valid reason to believe the kid had a gun or guns on his person or on campus then she did what she had to do. But if she was just freaked out by the topic of his presentation then she needs to pull that log out of her ass and then dig around for her head.

Calling the POLICE on a student is a very big deal. Unless you have some real evidence that the student has crossed that line you simply can't go there.

Passacaglia · 03-06-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

The Modern Whig Party

So pretty much nowhere.

Awesome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modern Whig Party

We represent moderate voters from all walks of life who cherry-pick between traditional Democratic and Republican ideals in what has been called the Modern Whig Philosophy.

So..you pretty much stand for nothing? Got it.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-06-2009, 11:50 AM

And then on the other hand, there's this charming story from the Atlanta suburbs today.
Woodstock High students return after gun scare | ajc.com

In this case it was the parents of one of the kids involved who called police to start the investigation but here's what they recovered from the boys.

Hidden in a school restroom

And here's what they picked up from a suspect's home a short time later

Granted, the pistol looks like it might have been as dangerous to the user as to any targets but damn.

dwardzala · 03-06-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Awesome.

So..you pretty much stand for nothing? Got it.

"As such, these new members are seeking a viable political home where they can find common ground with moderate Democrats in a manner where common-sense and rational thought trump ideology."

No wonder they can never get anybody elected - they are relying on common sense and rational thought. Don't they know that politics doesn't recognize either of those traits.

03-04-2009, 09:53 PM	#3
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	I would need to know why the teacher thought there was some risk. On the surface it sure smacks of a knee-jerk reaction ("Hey, the kid likes guns, we need to do something about that!"), but there is zero info on the reason for calling the police. We'd need to know the details of the presentation before making a judgement. I could see the teacher being a left-wing commie liberal nutjob (like some I've run into) trying to crush gun rights wherever they are found, and I could also see the student giving a right-wing neo-nazi "Kill 'em all, let god sort them out" presentation. Until I know which is the case, I can't really comment. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

03-04-2009, 10:05 PM	#4
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	Jebus Thrist. That teacher needs to get a life, I hope she is fired for her stupidity. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

03-04-2009, 10:09 PM	#5
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	Imagine the headlines if a kid discussed guns in class, teacher didn't call the cops, and the kid then shoots somebody. If I were a teacher in the States, i'd probably do the same, to protect my own ass if nothing else. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce Last edited by Groundhog : 03-04-2009 at 10:09 PM.

03-04-2009, 11:33 PM	#7
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Yeah, it seemed like a CYA move to me as well. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

03-05-2009, 12:07 PM	#11
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	On the face of it, it seems an overzealous move by the professor. I suspect there has to be more to the story than just the bare facts that article gives. __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

03-04-2009, 09:46 PM	#2
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	If the teacher believed there was any level of risk, why not call it in?

03-04-2009, 11:38 PM	#8
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	Sad statement on life today.

03-05-2009, 01:43 AM	#10
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	I dont think there would be any backlash. I mean, why would there be? If it was that much of a threat though, I hope he got an A

03-05-2009, 12:11 PM	#12
King of New York High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edge of the Great Dismal Swamp	Without hearing the actual presentation, it's hard to know who was right and who was wrong. If the student made the case in a calm, rational, non-intimidating way, then the professor (and the campus police) overreacted. If the student's behavior during the presentation was not calm or rational, then the professor and the police did the right thing. __________________ Input A No Input

03-05-2009, 12:45 PM	#13
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	I'd have to hear the presentation too to make a judgment. But I don't think you can ever be too cautious about these incidents. I will say that if I was a parent, I would rather the teacher be overly cautious. Perhaps the best solution would be to have the teacher contact the Dean and ask for their opinion on the matter before calling the cops.

03-05-2009, 12:52 PM	#15
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	It sure sounds like one of those dastardly liberals trying to thwart the rights of law abiding gun owners! The article is missing alot of details. I suspect there's a reason for that. Or it could just be shoddy journalism. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

03-05-2009, 12:55 PM	#17
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	Must be a slow news day if we are reporting on something from October. And in other news, John Bell accepted the Whig Party's nomination for President. __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

03-05-2009, 01:01 PM	#19
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	I don't really see the issue here. Professor thinks there's a cause to call police. Police check it out, decide there's no problem. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. No one was arrested. Why is this a problem? __________________ Mile High Hockey

03-05-2009, 02:18 PM	#22
watravaler High School JV Join Date: Jun 2005	As other have said, without information regarding the presentation/student, I can't really call the move good or bad.

03-05-2009, 06:01 PM	#25
LoneStarGirl College Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Little Rock, AR	As a high school teacher I would have NOT called the cops for the primary reason that it would be breaking the chain of command. If you have an suspicion of a student being abused at home, doing drugs, carrying a gun, etc, you have to tell the student's counselor and the vice principal. Its their decision whether or not cops should be involved.

03-05-2009, 06:05 PM	#26
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	At the collegiate level things work differently. My Department Chair, Division Chair and eventually Dean would encourage me to handle these problems without needing to involve others. The Chain of Command is much weaker at many colleges. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

03-06-2009, 11:17 AM	#31
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	I think the problem we have here is piss poor journalism. There are not enough facts for anyone to discern the real situation in this case. If the teacher had a valid reason to believe the kid had a gun or guns on his person or on campus then she did what she had to do. But if she was just freaked out by the topic of his presentation then she needs to pull that log out of her ass and then dig around for her head. Calling the POLICE on a student is a very big deal. Unless you have some real evidence that the student has crossed that line you simply can't go there. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

03-06-2009, 11:50 AM	#33
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	And then on the other hand, there's this charming story from the Atlanta suburbs today. Woodstock High students return after gun scare \| ajc.com In this case it was the parents of one of the kids involved who called police to start the investigation but here's what they recovered from the boys. Hidden in a school restroom And here's what they picked up from a suspect's home a short time later Granted, the pistol looks like it might have been as dangerous to the user as to any targets but damn. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 03-06-2009 at 11:51 AM.

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