FOFC Deeproute League

[SirFozzie]

Holy crapstick. What a fourth quarter in the Key West-Tennessee game.

[Autumn]

Yeah, that was an exciting finish. Clutch punt return and good work by that Parrot wide receiver too.

Congratulations both championship teams.

[DeToxRox]

GG Dbd. What we both imagined, a slugfest. Better win the title now.

[SirFozzie]

Man, the first three and a half quarters of Key West @ Tennessee were putrid, and I can say that as one of the teams involved. 3-3 with 7:00 to play. But hold on to your hats folks, because the last quarter was insane.

TEN (6:30) Tolliver 20 Yard FG 6-3
TEN (3:54) Anderson 78 Yard TD Punt Return (Tolliver Kick) 13-3

Game over, right?

KEY (1:24) Booker 34 yard TD pass to Dittmer (Hensley Kick) 13-10.

Key West then must recover an onside kick... and they do!

Two plays later...

KEY (1:07) Booker 47 yard TD Pass to Dittmer (Hensley Kick) 13-17

Are you KIDDING me? Both of Dittmer's TD's are short passes taken to the house. But that's all. Greatest Come back of all time, right?

After a kickoff and a short return, the Thunderwolves are 77 yards from paydirt and only have 61 seconds to get there. They do have all three timeouts though.

(1:01) 1st-10, TEN 23: Camara fades back to pass.. has to go short to Goldstein, pick up of just over 8 on the play. (1st Time Out by TEN)

(:55) 2nd-2 TEN 32: Camara checks down to Knox, and they gain 7 more, but have to use their 2nd time out. 51 seconds, 61 yards

(:51) 1st-10, TEN 39: Incomplete pass.. wait.. flag on the play.. Pass Interference on the Key West defense. 10 yards (spot foul), and automatic first down!

(:47) 1st-10, TEN 49: Camara fades back to throw.. incomplete.. but wait! Pass Interference AGAIN, and on the SAME GUY! Another 8 yards on the Spot Foul, another automatic first down!

(:43) 1st-10, KEY 42: The Key West defense plays off soft, not wanting to give up a trifecta of pass interference calls... and Camara finds Anderson on the sidelines, who taps the toes and goes out of bounds! 13 more yards, and another first down!

(:37) 1st-10, KEY 29: Camara fades back.. and looks, and looks.. nothing there.. everyone's back in coverage.. he takes off.. to the 25.. the 20.. and FINALLY taken down at the 18! Tennessee is forced to use their last time out with 0:25 to play

(:25) 1st-10, KEY 18: Camara looks in the end zone... incomplete.

(:21) 2nd-10, KEY 18: Camara Fades back, throws short to Donahue, who catches at the 11, everyone's screaming for him to get out of bounds, but he turns up field.. and beats the defenders to the pylon. ARE YOU KIDDING ME.. Touchdown, Thunderwolves, they'll be heading to the FOFC Bowl!

[dbd1963]

Dang that was an exciting game on the other side. On our side it was a grueling war of wills. And the kickers did matter. Congrats on a great season DeToxRox. I'll be doing everything I can to win it all, but SirFozzie's team has an awful lot to say about that..

[dbd1963]

Here's a thought -- maybe we should open the league up to public enrollment so we can get the last 9 CPU teams an owner?

[lordscarlet]

I would be down for that. Now is probably a good time.

[dbd1963]

The championship game has run, and it was another barn burner. Came down to the final seconds.

I won't spoil anyone by revealing the outcome here. (Because I don't see how to do that nifty "spoiler" thing..)

Now, on to the draft!

[SirFozzie]

Spoiler

Damnit.

[dbd1963]

Congratulations on a fine season, Sir Fozzie.

Now, where's my trophy?

[SirFozzie]

I'll shove that *@@% trophy up your @*%@%&@&%_!!!!!

Seriously good game, and hopefully we'll be back next year. When my LB went down against Key West, I knew we weren't going to be very good defensively, but that was really bad.

[dbd1963]

Well, you did stop my running game. It had been awesome, but you held my RB to 80 yards. It was the QB who just suddenly became Joe Montana or something. I really don't know where THAT came from.

I feel very fortunate to have won, because you were moving the ball at will on me. Then there was that one 94 yard TD we got, where we caught you in an all out blitz, that got me back into the game. If that hadn't happened, without the running game, I think you would have smothered my offense and coasted to the win.

It was another roller coaster.

[Raiders Army]

Congratulations dbd1963!

[21C]

It's also worth mentioning to all owners that this is the last day to resign any of your players.

After the sim is run Thursday, unsigned players become free agents. That first day of free agency is pretty hectic since all the CPU teams don't seem to resign any of their players so there are plenty of good players available.

[dbd1963]

I'm glad you mentioned that..

Thanks for the good vibes, RA.

[DeToxRox]

'Grats DBD. Pretty much knew the Super Bowl was determined in our game

[dbd1963]

Tennessee was tough, man! I'm telling you.

I have made notes from the "player builds" from the thread by grendel over on DeepRoute, and also added a FS build from raiderfan101. I was bugging him today for the CB but he's busy with free agency now. Anyway, so that anyone who plays in the FOFC league has something to look at when looking at all those numbers, to separate the wheat from the chaff, here it is:

Note: I think you consider the following numbers as minimums for a very good player of each position.

OFFENSE

QB 6' 2" 220 Int 50, Lead 50, Disc 50, Arm 75, Acc 75

RB 5'10" 220 Spd 75, Str 35, FstSt 50, Sta 50, Tgh 50, Ath 35, PrtBl 50, FtWk 50, FinOp 50

--can find a bruiser back with higher strength, lower speed. I wonder if you can find an elusive back too?

TE 6'4" Str 45, Ath 35, Int 35, Disc 35, Cltch 35, Spd 35, PsCtch 35, Rte 45 RnBl 35, PsBl 35, FsSt 45

-- seems obvious you could look for pure blocking TE or more receiving TE.

WR - Poss 6'2" 215 Str 35, Ath 35, Int 35, Disc 35, Cons 45, Esc 50, Spd 55, PrtBl 50, PsCtch 65, Rte 55, FsSt 55, FnOp 50, Leap 35

WR - Deep 5'10" 190 Ath 45, Int 45, Cltch 65, Esc 35, Spd 80, FtWk 35, PsCtch 55, Rte 35, FsSt 35, Read 55, Leap 50

C - 6' 295 Str 75, Sta 50, Int 50, Disc 65, FtWk 65, RnBl 65, PsBl 65, Snap 65

G - 6'2" 305 Str 80, Int 50, Disc 65, FtWk 60, RnBl 70, PsBl 60, FsSt 20

-- this looks like a RG to me. Could use a more finesse guy for LG.

T - 6'2" 295 Str 75, Ath 35, Int 50 Disc 65, FtWk 65, RnBl 60, PsBl 70, FsSt 25

-- this looks like a LT to me. At RT, more RnBl, less PsBl ok, also should be bigger, slower, stronger.

Missing -- FB, variations on RB and other positions

DEFENSE

DT - 6'0" 305 Str 80, Disc 50, FtWk 55, ShBl 55, Spd 20, FsSt 25, Tac 50

-- looks like a NT to me. A 3-T ought to be faster and need not be so strong.

DE- 6'0" 275 Str 65, Ath 65, Spd 40, FtWk 40, ShBl 50, FsSt 50, Tac 50

-- You could make tradeoffs for LE, RE. Where is motor? John Madden always says "That guy has got some motor on him" about DEs he likes. This is probably a DE for a 3-4 as that's what grendel runs.

WLB 6'2" 220 Str 45, Ath 50, Int 45, Spd 45, ShBl 65, FsSt 50

MLB 6'2" 240 Str 55, Int 55, Disc 60, RdO 50, Tac 50, Spd 40

-- this is based on my own MLB who played so well this year, but I don't think it's complete.

FS 5'10" 205 Read 60, Str 50, Spd 65, Ftwk 50, Cvr 50, FsSt 30, ShBl 30, Mot 45,Tac 40, Leap 50

Missing -- CB, SS, SLB, DE for 4-3, ILB for 3-4 (grendel put them up, but I didn't copy them).

Some other advice I have gotten from the pros over there -- the overall number means NOTHING. It seems to be keyed to the intangibles, so a guy with a high overall can be good, but not necessarily. The numbers on the list above are important, and you can find guys in the high 60s and 70s that fit all of them. So keep that in mind.

The higher the overall, the higher the salary demand, btw.

All the pros said that these builds were "perfect case scenarios" and you will hardly ever find these guys. So you make tradeoffs, thinking about what your team needs, and what you already have.

I hope we can do a little work on this list. It seems a good start, but there's so much more detail that could be added.

[wade moore]

Unfortunately I think I'm cashed out on this game.

Combine the initial frustrations with the interface, etc with the serious game resolution issues and I just can't see sticking with it. I appreciate that the developer wanted feedback and that he has a busy schedule, but outside of some initial feedback we've not gotten anything in return.

I just don't see the value in fighting through this right now.

[lordscarlet]

Congrats, dbd! And, obvioulsy, Wade, I'm disappointed to hear you won't continue to play. This is supposed to be us finally coming together and playing a football sim game with each other!

I look forward to free agency -- I have some key spots to fill and I think I have a very solid team. We won the division this year, and anything but the championship next year will be considered a failure!

[gstelmack]

I'll give it another season, but until the depth chart issues are fixed I'm finding it very hard to get into my team, as it remains just too much work. I'm also disappointed to see that overall has so little correlation with performance, as the web interface makes it difficult to drill down and filter by what you really need. I need to check out the CSV stuff and see what I can figure out.

[lordscarlet]

The CSV helps a lot, but obviously it's pretty shitty that you have to use the CSV and have some decent excel or php knowledge to make use of it.

[dbd1963]

Since I don't know squat about excel, the CSV was not helpful to me.

[dbd1963]

Free Agency has begun, and all the CPU teams have released their talent. Why, I couldn't tell you, but it's there for the taking, so you better get your bids in.

And this is one reason why I don't want to have any CPU teams in our league..

[Autumn]

Wow, that's frustrating. I just spend a good deal of time in my busy morning going through the free agents and making offers. HOwever, I didn't realize that every time I changed position I needed to "formally submit my offers" thinking I could do it all at the end. so, it didn't save any of my work.

This is the sort of thing that would make me drop the game, as I just don't have the free time to do this sort of stuff twice.

[gstelmack]

I downloaded the CSV last night and started working on my own formulas for players. I don't think I have time for that...

[dbd1963]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Wow, that's frustrating. I just spend a good deal of time in my busy morning going through the free agents and making offers. HOwever, I didn't realize that every time I changed position I needed to "formally submit my offers" thinking I could do it all at the end. so, it didn't save any of my work.

This is the sort of thing that would make me drop the game, as I just don't have the free time to do this sort of stuff twice.

It is very demoralizing when this happens. I had only done three guys at the time, but I really didn't feel like going back and figuring the salaries again, etc.

[rjolley]

Yeah, that was very annoying when I did it.

Sorry you lost all of your work.

[Autumn]

Is there a way to see all the offers on a free agent, or what the status of negotiations are, etc? Not that I've looked everywhere for it but it wasn't apparent to me.

[lordscarlet]

To see your offers? When you click on the Free Agents link and it shows all the positions, there's a "Current Offers" link.

[gstelmack]

Sorting through FAs is a pain. I hope I get time to make at least a couple of offers before the next sim.

[lordscarlet]

I kinda went willy nilly without looking at the csv -- not the best idea.

[lordscarlet]

If I get everyone my payroll will be a mess

[dbd1963]

I really have to complain about this Overall means nothing crap. Here's the message on my homepage right now:

Free agency is still underway! This is a great way to quickly improve your team. The link here shows the top 100 projected free agents.

Top projected free agents? The 92/92 tackle near the top of the list played 16 games and allowed 12 sacks. I don't have any tackles rated as high as 92, and combined they only allowed 1 sack. What kind of realism is that?

And if the veterans of the game didn't tell us how you could field a team with guys in the 70s and 80s and kick the snot out of the teams made out of 90s, how long would it take us to figure it out? And, most importantly, would it feel like fun while we did figure it out, or would we feel like the game was set up to make you make stupid decisions just to make it harder?

I don't know if that was Mike's intention, but that does seem to be the effect.

As I said, once I figured out that the overall doesn't mean anything, the game made more sense to me, and I felt like my decisions had an impact on the game. If the overall business is a design flaw or bug, the text that hypes the FAs should be removed until it's fixed, and it should be made generally know to new players that overall means next to zilch. Because the way it is set up now, veterans of the game who know this stuff have an enormous advantage because the game is filling the newbies heads with misinformation.

[gstelmack]

A big part of the problem is there is no real in-game filtering. You have to download the CSV, which has ALL the stats, to try and do much filtering / pruning to find these guys.

I ended up just clicking through some of the top guys to find ones that looked like they had reasonable attribute numbers, but I'm tired of writing utilities to make my football sims playable, and I'm not messing around with putting together something that will help me do that filtering for a game that wants me to pay around $5/month.

[dbd1963]

Draft spin 1 did not run yesterday. I sent an email to Mike about it so he should be aware of the problem.

[Autumn]

I agree with the complaints about free agents above. I was excited that I managed to sign most of my prospects though, I think I'll be much improved next year. But yes, it would be impossible without some guidance from the veterans about which stats matter. That's a big, big problem.

[gstelmack]

I was actually surprised that it looked like an FA sim ran Saturday. I thought we were a M-F league.

[dbd1963]

gstelmack, we are, but the league schedule had us running that FA and then part 1 the draft this weekend.

Autumn, I think the competitiveness of our league has probably dropped so far that it won't be fun this next season, even if we do open the league up. The 8 or 10 guys who are active snapped up all the FAs. The CPU teams just sat there getting worse. I'm waiting to see what happens in the draft, but if it doesn't look competitive, I think I'm dropping out of the league too. I don't want to play GLB-like games where the outcome is assured from the getgo.

[gstelmack]

Which begs the question: WHAT league schedule? I can't find anyplace that tells me what's going to happen on what days.

[dbd1963]

It's in my teams > team name > other options > league calendar

[dbd1963]

A lot of Saturdays and Sundays have scheduled events looking at the calendar now.

[gstelmack]

Ah, there it is, I see now.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by dbd1963

Draft spin 1 did not run yesterday. I sent an email to Mike about it so he should be aware of the problem.

Draft Spin 1 just means it's a day to setup your draft, basically. The draft only occurs in one bulk move, and that's on 2/2. Having said that *my draft page has an error*. I can't set my draft strategy!!! EEEEEK!! I tried the contact link, but I will be surprised if I get a response in time.

I have my list set based on the CSV, I just need to upload it.

[lordscarlet]

just got this:

Heya Doug!

That's a first.

Tell you what; I am going to pause your draft this evening and make sure to get you fixed. It will run tomorrow instead. Can you pass the message on you message board.

thanks, and sorry for the problem.

--Mike

[lordscarlet]

triple dola:

It looks like non game spins can occur on the weekend.

[lordscarlet]

Heya Doug!

It should be fixed now; I think it had to do with the fact that this was the first seson of the league.

Thanks for the heads up!

I got my draft all setup, but I don't know if anyone else had trouble.

[dbd1963]

I have been working my draft since midseason at least.

I remember now that draft spin 1/2 doesn't do anything. A few words added to that entry in the calendar would save Mike some unnecessary emails (which he doesn't answer).