WW XCIV Group Therapy - Game Over!

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by Lathum

hmmm

I thought MartinD was this guy













but he is really this guy

Neither is particularly close to the mark - even though it's the national dress, I have never worn a kilt, and have no intention of wearing one in the future.

(I'm really not doing my reputation as a proud Scot any good here, am I? )

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MartinD

Neither is particularly close to the mark - even though it's the national dress, I have never worn a kilt, and have no intention of wearing one in the future.

(I'm really not doing my reputation as a proud Scot any good here, am I? )

lol - nope! you fail!!!

VOTE MARTIND

[DaddyTorgo]

okay okay

UNVOTE MARTIN D

[hoopsguy]

Dubb, I've had those posts up for four days now. I'm sorry if there are any errors in them (I'm not going to have time to look now but will later) but I think I've been very consistent in saying that you are among the most trusted villagers in the game based on your two votes for EF on Days 1 and 2. I'm definitely not guilty of trying to do anything to sabotage your credibility.

Pass - I think Autumn's plan of attack (look at the PB voters from D2) and if you don't like the way I worded it then I don't know what to tell you. I also don't have time right now for 20 questions on why I feel this way but I think my posts have been pretty consistent in explaining my viewpoint.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Dubb, I've had those posts up for four days now. I'm sorry if there are any errors in them (I'm not going to have time to look now but will later) but I think I've been very consistent in saying that you are among the most trusted villagers in the game based on your two votes for EF on Days 1 and 2. I'm definitely not guilty of trying to do anything to sabotage your credibility.

Pass - I think Autumn's plan of attack (look at the PB voters from D2) and if you don't like the way I worded it then I don't know what to tell you. I also don't have time right now for 20 questions on why I feel this way but I think my posts have been pretty consistent in explaining my viewpoint.

You think Autumn's plan of attack.....what? I'm taking the rest of your post to mean that you DO have time for 19 questions, of which my previous sentence was one.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol i think he meant to say that that was the best way to go

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

lol i think he meant to say that that was the best way to go

Thanks. Since DT answered it, I withdraw the question, and still have 19 left.

[Passacaglia]

Anyway, talk about bass ack wards. I see the strategy here, but....uh...EF was the wolf, right?

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah...not sure why we'd look harder at EF (who was the wolf and ended up with MORE votes on him) then at PB who ended up with fewer votes on him. That part to me doesn't make any sense - like the people advancing that strategy want us to have a lower % chance of catching a wolf...

[Danny]

I have never heard of haggis, but it looks interesting. I'd try it.

[hoopsguy]

No, Autumn is saying to look at the PB voters today. To ignore the EF voters and look at the PB ones from Day 2.

Anyone looking at the EF voters today is distracting people from the side of the vote that probably contains more wolves.

And I'm backing that plan knowing that I'm on the wrong side of the vote on Day 2.

I (mostly) was not trying to be a smartass on the 20 questions thing. I'll be lucky to have 10 minutes in the thread over the next couple of hours.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

No, Autumn is saying to look at the PB voters today. To ignore the EF voters and look at the PB ones from Day 2.

Anyone looking at the EF voters today is distracting people from the side of the vote that probably contains more wolves.

And I'm backing that plan knowing that I'm on the wrong side of the vote on Day 2.

I (mostly) was not trying to be a smartass on the 20 questions thing. I'll be lucky to have 10 minutes in the thread over the next couple of hours.

What do you mean, look at the PB voters today -- what other day would we look at them? And really, that use of the word distracting is worrisome from you. You're definitely one of the drivers in this game so far, and to come out with a word like that, as if this is the only thing we should be talking about, just doesn't jive.

I didn't think you were being a smartass on the 20 questions thing -- well, I did, but in a good way -- I just thought you were giving a shout-out to the grilling of clap, but just letting me know that you don't have time. And that's cool -- no one is ever under any obligation to respond, I just kept grilling clap because he was here to chat, but just felt like discussing his vote was meaningless.

[Telle]

Votes as of post #2212

1 - Telle - Poli (1981)
4 - Lerriuqs - Autumn (2021), hoopsguy (2057), saldana (2160), Abe (2189)
1 - Passacaglia - claphamsa (2087)
2 - hoopsguy - dubb (2184), Passacaglia (2190)

[DaddyTorgo]

Ouch - I'm a bad salesman...that guy just raked me over the coals on the phone.

"c'mon...you do this all day...you can do better than that."

[Passacaglia]

So I've got 18 questions left:

1112 - MartinD votes EF (breaks tie, vote doesn't move. big vote, in my mind)
1120 - BK unvotes Hoops, votes PB (again missing a chance to vote for a known wolf, not done moving yet)
1123 - PF votes EF (see MartinD above)
1137 - Lerriuqs votes PB (ties it again)

So MartinD's vote was big, but lerriuqs's vote was not? FTR, lerriuqs's vote does not move, either, but you don't mention that. Also FTR, dubb, I don't believe that his mislabeling your vote, and forgetting to chalk up your EF vote later was intentional -- if hoops is going to be sneaky, I think he's more likely to sneakily lead us with his comments, rather than just get the record wrong on purpose.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I'm voting Lerriuqs! Obviously I think that was significant and I have that called out in my player-by-player review posts (version 2 - the detailed one) from Friday afternoon.

I think MartinD and PF both had very good votes, which is why I have them (along with Dubb and Autumn) as my most trusted villagers in the list I published either late Friday or Saturday.

[Passacaglia]

Oh geez, I don't know what I was thinking -- when I made that post, I was sure MartinD and lerriuqs had both voted for EF. Oh well. How many questions do I get docked for that one?

[hoopsguy]

Pass is correct - I have yet to play a game where I've messed with the vote totals, posts, whatever in an attempt to mislead people. I may make a mistake here and there with a post # or recording the info but there is never malicious intent in terms of shaping the game as a wolf.

Who knows if I would do it in the future? I don't think I would because until the very, very endgame because the risk most likely does not outweigh the reward.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Oh geez, I don't know what I was thinking -- when I made that post, I was sure MartinD and lerriuqs had both voted for EF. Oh well. How many questions do I get docked for that one?

One thing that I would ask - you have quoted the "record of the posts" stuff but not my analysis posts (player by player) that immediately follow. I think the analysis posts have a lot more meat to them and serve as a better barometer for my feelings on players.

By all means, reference the posts stuff (better for universal timeline) but if you are asking questions about how I feel on people I think you might find that I've answered some/many of the questions already in the "version 2" analysis post.

I'll dig up the post when I get home tonight, but that won't happen for a few hours. I think I posted it somewhere around 3PM CST on Friday of last week, give or take an hour ...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

One thing that I would ask - you have quoted the "record of the posts" stuff but not my analysis posts (player by player) that immediately follow. I think the analysis posts have a lot more meat to them and serve as a better barometer for my feelings on players.

By all means, reference the posts stuff (better for universal timeline) but if you are asking questions about how I feel on people I think you might find that I've answered some/many of the questions already in the "version 2" analysis post.

I'll dig up the post when I get home tonight, but that won't happen for a few hours. I think I posted it somewhere around 3PM CST on Friday of last week, give or take an hour ...

I wouldn't say I'm specifically looking for your feelings on people. I just happen to have the post record pasted into an open text file here, so it's more handy. And since your comments are thrown in there, I get to read them a lot.

[Passacaglia]

I guess what I should say is that I'm looking at what you might be trying to "inject" into the discussion -- the post record has comments from you, that are taken a little more "as law" then what your feelings on players are.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Here is the more advanced version of vote analysis from the first two days, based on my interpretations:

1. Claphamsa D1: PackerFanatic D2: Telle Unvotes: PB (D2 early) Timing: throwaway vote late D2 (Telle five back, inside of last 20-30 minutes) rather than voting one of lead dogs.

2. EagleFan - Evil Information Collector, Lynched Day 2

3. Barkeep D1: NTN D2: Telle Unvotes: Hoops (D2), PB (D2 late) Timing: PB move in last hour, moving vote from 8-7 PB to 7-7 PB/EF. This is marginally better than I recall last night, as it indirectly increased pressure on EF.

4. The Jackal D1: NTN D2: PB Unvotes: EF Timing: middle of D3, changes to PB 3 posts later and margin goes from 5EF - 4PB to 4EF - 5PB. He looks worse now than I recalled last night with no end votes on EF and an unvote on EF yesterday.

5. Abe D1: NTN D2: PB Unvotes: None Timing: D2 vote tied up PB with EF at 4-4. Links himself through trust to BK at least twice in thread.

6. PackerFanatic D1: NTN D2: EF Unvotes: Lerriuqs (D1) Timing: no real meaning to discern from D1 vote change. D2 vote on EF was meaningful (7-6 margin).

7. Hoopsguy D1: EF D2: PB Unvotes: None Timing: both pretty early votes, no moves to save EF on D1, no moves to hang EF on D2.

8. PurdueBrad D1: NTN D2: EF Unvotes: Hoops (D1, D2), EF (D1, D2), NTN (D1), Telle (D1) Timing: all kind of late vote changes, not always optimal for survival until last five minutes. Can certainly make a case that he was trying to help EF based on D1 NTN late call and D2 late movement away from EF to anyone offered as an option

9. Lathum D1: EF D2: PB Unvotes: Poli (D1), Abe (D1) Timing: pretty insignificant vote moves, early in day. Erratic play on D2 hard to understand, but suggests alternate win conditions

10. Martin D D1: PB D2: EF Unvotes: None Timing: D2 vote on EF was meaningful.

11. Poli D1: Abe D2: EF Unvotes: Lathum (D1), Telle (D1, D2), PB (D2) Timing: had multiple chances to put vote on EF on Day 2, did not until very end of day. This looks like one of the worst voting records of the people who have an EF final vote to their name.

12. Passacaglia D1: NTN D2: EF Unvotes: Lerriuqs (D1), Hoops (D1 + D2), EF (D2 - sort of) Timing; NTN votes on D1 tied it back up at 4-4 (he had voted No Lynch, then put vote back where it was when learning it was not a good option). His EF vote on D2 is muted by the fact that he illegally attempted to move his vote, failing to unvote when casting a vote for Telle. Another one of the weaker voting records with a EF vote to their name.

13. Lerriuqs D1: Pass D2: no vote Unvotes: None Timing: Day 2 vote on PB tied it at 7-7, not a good vote based on current information. Day 1 vote cast early, never revisited.

14. Dubb93 D1: EF D2: EF Unvotes: Saldana (D1), PB (D2) Timing: both unvotes came pretty early, both votes on EF were meaningful based on timing, no unvotes down stretch to help EF either time. Very good vote history.

15. Autumn D1: Telle D2: EF Unvotes: PB (D1) Timing: D2 vote on EF is strong, helping create two man race with PB. D1 unvote was very PB-friendly, moving him out of 2 vote lead to throw vote on distant candidate. One of drivers of potential 3rd candidate on Day 1.

16. Chief Rum D1: EF D2: PB Unvotes: None Timing: D1 vote was a big one against EF, D2 vote was a big one for EF. Has floated a couple of theories this game that have been dubious (EF/NTN voters with one wolf each early on, wolves would not block their own which was false on D2)

17. NTNDeacon - The Talker, Lynched Day 1

18. Telle D1: PB D2: PB Unvotes: Abe (D1) Timing: 2nd driver (w/Autumn) of 3rd candidate on D1 when there was a wolf in the mix. No good votes to help cause. Her votes have been early enough to not be magnified.

19. DaddyTorgo D1: no vote D2: EF Unvotes: PB (D2) Timing: Vote change on D2 looks good, but felt like he was looking for excessive credit for doing so when others were initial movers and shakers on EF.

20. AlanT - The Arbitrator, Night kill Day 2

21. Saldana D1: Dubb D2: Hoops Unvotes: EF (D2) Timing: pretty late unvote on EF brought race back to an 8-8 tie. D1 vote was more or less throwaway on likely villager.

I reserve the right to have made minor changes to my thought process between Friday afternoon and now, but here is the post.

[PackerFanatic]

It would be quite hypocritical of me to vote for Lerriuqs for being UTR, wouldn't it? Haha...I should be back before deadline to catch up and put a vote in.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Danny

I have never heard of haggis, but it looks interesting. I'd try it.

You are a sick man

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

You are a sick man

Haggis isn't all that bad - is just what it's made of and what it comes in that people have problems with. (While I don't like haggis, it's not a 'wouldn't eat it if you put a gun to my head'-type of dislike - more 'would prefer something else, but will eat it if there isn't a better option'.)

[MartinD]

This is where, in an ideal world, I would put my vote on lerriuqs and give him a chance to explain himself. Unfortunately, it's not an ideal world - I'm signing off for the night in the next half-hour or so, and I probably won't be around to switch my vote if lerriuqs turns up.

I'll have a look through recent posts to see if I can come up with a better candidate, but will vote for lerriuqs if I can't see another option.

[hoopsguy]

OK, my company has left for the day which means that I once again have (nearly) unfettered access to the thread.

Time to see where the votes sit right now.

[lerriuqs]

VOTE Hoops

I need the self-preservation vote...

I discussed my voting pattern and lack of posting a day or so ago. I've nothing to add now other than if you lynch me, you get a villager. I'm not going to fight it.

[The Jackal]

I've got class tonight that's going to keep me out from 6-9 or thereabouts. I'm not positive about this vote but I've been following the thread today and I feel good about it for now; hopefully I'm not missing out on some great info in the next couple hours.

VOTE LERRIUQS

[The Jackal]

I'll be around for the next half hour if anyone wants to sum up the case against hoops or telle, I've been busy and skimmed a bit of the thread.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you have harped all day on it. You mentioned you think a smart wolf is pulling some strings, you certainly fall under that catergory as well.

Not really sure how I am getting bent, I am merely responding to your claims, but if you feel the need to vote me please by all means do, your voting record stinks already, why stop now?

exaggerate much...i was in the thread for an hour during my lunch, and popped back for 10 minutes...you have a strange definition of all day

go "lathum" all over someone else, because your crap really isnt going to work the same way on me

[saldana]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

I need the self-preservation vote...

I discussed my voting pattern and lack of posting a day or so ago. I've nothing to add now other than if you lynch me, you get a villager. I'm not going to fight it.

see heres the thing about being new to the game...we all were once, so we do understand the confusion that comes with this...but if you are confused, ask questions, and people will help you...i realize it was somewhat tounge in cheek, but on day one when someone (telle i think) asked for a summation of what acceptable day one voting strategies were, someone actually wrote up a list. just sitting back and not saying anything is more of a hinderance than help

[hoopsguy]

I understand the Lerriuqs votes. I guess I can sort of understand the Dubb vote, as misguided as it is. But the Pass vote is all kinds of strange to me.

Look, we are significantly reducing our chances of getting a wolf today by putting me in harms way here. I know that this is a pretty empy claim that any villager can make, but I'm just puzzled by people's willingness to continue throwing me into the mix when there are numerous players whose voting records are really suspect. It is a low value play.

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2231

1 - Telle - Poli (1981)
5 - Lerriuqs - Autumn (2021), hoopsguy (2057), saldana (2160), Abe (2189), The Jackal (2228)
1 - Passacaglia - claphamsa (2087)
3 - hoopsguy - dubb (2184), Passacaglia (2190), Lerriuqs (2229)

Yet to Vote - MartinD, DaddyTorgo, PackerFanatic, Chief Rum, Lathum and Telle

[The Jackal]

What is the case against you, hoops? Stemming from voting on PB?

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by saldana

see heres the thing about being new to the game...we all were once, so we do understand the confusion that comes with this...but if you are confused, ask questions, and people will help you...i realize it was somewhat tounge in cheek, but on day one when someone (telle i think) asked for a summation of what acceptable day one voting strategies were, someone actually wrote up a list. just sitting back and not saying anything is more of a hinderance than help

Thanks but I don't need a lecture and I'm not confused about anything going on. You're not killing a wolf by killing me...You'll see.

[hoopsguy]

When looking at the "not voted" it doesn't seem likely that Lathum will be casting his vote today. So that really leaves five non-votes at this point.

[MartinD]

VOTE LERRIUQS

I may well be voting for a villager, but his lack of activity doesn't feel right to me.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

When looking at the "not voted" it doesn't seem likely that Lathum will be casting his vote today. So that really leaves five non-votes at this point.

But by putting his name there, I can taunt him more.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

What is the case against you, hoops? Stemming from voting on PB?

Not that I can tell - best I can figure, people think I'm leading them down bad paths. I haven't heard the criticism being very vote-centric.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Not that I can tell - best I can figure, people think I'm leading them down bad paths. I haven't heard the criticism being very vote-centric.

Hrm. I don't have enough trust in the people voting for you to make that kind of move before I leave, so I think I'll stay put. Hopefully this vote ends up positively for us.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

Thanks but I don't need a lecture and I'm not confused about anything going on. You're not killing a wolf by killing me...You'll see.

sorry..didnt mean to come off preachy with the lecture feel...was just trying to explain my vote.

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by saldana

sorry..didnt mean to come off preachy with the lecture feel...was just trying to explain my vote.

S'ok.

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2243

1 - Telle - Poli (1981)
6 - Lerriuqs - Autumn (2021), hoopsguy (2057), saldana (2160), Abe (2189), The Jackal (2228), Martin D (2238)
1 - Passacaglia - claphamsa (2087)
3 - hoopsguy - dubb (2184), Passacaglia (2190), Lerriuqs (2229)

Yet to Vote - DaddyTorgo, PackerFanatic, Chief Rum, and Telle

[Poli]

I have about an hour till I head out for the night. I'm very disappointed in what I'm seeing over the last 6 hours, though.

I could vote for Telle or Jackal rather easily, even saldana for his voting record. Hoops I don't like, but is it really coming down to hoops or licorice (I kid with the name, of course)? Why the heck are we letting telle off the ledge?

A lot of finger pointing going on here and I'm fairly frustrated and disappointed. I think just about everyone still in the game outside of dubb and chief rum have been mentioned as suspect.

Then again, it's my birthday and I've been rather pissy about just about everything today. It's a personal issue so I'll set it aside.

I'll admit that I really wanted telle to be lynched instead of eaglefan the other day, but I saw that role reveal/non-role reveal (depends on how you look at it), and it smelled of manure. I figured anything might happen. It certainly bit us in the butt last game.

Going down that path, it actually reminds me that I kind of liked hoops early on when he mentioned his "logic" for voting for eaglefan. Could it have been staged? Maybe, but I doubt it.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I understand the Lerriuqs votes. I guess I can sort of understand the Dubb vote, as misguided as it is. But the Pass vote is all kinds of strange to me.

Look, we are significantly reducing our chances of getting a wolf today by putting me in harms way here. I know that this is a pretty empy claim that any villager can make, but I'm just puzzled by people's willingness to continue throwing me into the mix when there are numerous players whose voting records are really suspect. It is a low value play.

Hoops all I can say is that I must have missed it the first time it was posted b/c when I read it when Pass posted it it REALLY pissed me off. I said my peace and left still pissed off. I've cooled down now.

As for my vote, I may be willing to move it to Saldana, but I just don't like the voters on Lerriuqs enough to vote that way. He's been UTR, and he seems like he is unwilling to defend himself here except with a vote, but the names as voters on him with the exception of Autumn and Abe aren't exactly the most trustworthy bunch.

Pass would be an interesting vote alternative as well.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Danny

GAME EVENT - The Happy Birthday Poli!!!!!!!!

I mentioned it in my PM, but thanks dude. Sort of.

[lerriuqs]

Unvote Hoops

Vote Lerriuqs

If this is what the group wants. Why should I argue?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I understand the Lerriuqs votes. I guess I can sort of understand the Dubb vote, as misguided as it is. But the Pass vote is all kinds of strange to me.

Look, we are significantly reducing our chances of getting a wolf today by putting me in harms way here. I know that this is a pretty empy claim that any villager can make, but I'm just puzzled by people's willingness to continue throwing me into the mix when there are numerous players whose voting records are really suspect. It is a low value play.

I've already mentioned that I'm suspicious of the Pass vote, too. I really think he's voting for me just because I pressed him on his voting pattern. His reluctance to talk about it makes me suspicious of him.

Hoops, I forget how many questions I have left with you, but I think I'll transfer them all to clap. I think I've picked your brain enough for the day.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by lerriuqs

Unvote Hoops

Vote Lerriuqs

If this is what the group wants. Why should I argue?

Ouch, is this still almost always a wolf move?