Concealed Weapons in Bars

[BYU 14]

The legislature is apparently looking at passing this bill - Regardless of your stance on Gun control this one just yells STUPID to me. Even more amazing since we have some of the toughest Drunk Driving laws and in country, so lets allow people to parade around getting drunk strapped up instead. I was really shocked to see how many states allow this.

And the NHRA quote about it being common sense. Is it realy fucking common sense for someone drunk with a concealed weapon to try and intercede in say a robbery at a bar that erupts into an exchange of gunfire, again with one party drunk?

My Way News - Arizona moves to allow concealed guns in bars

Arizona moves to allow concealed guns in bars

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Jun 28, 12:26 PM (ET)

By AMANDA LEE MYERS

PHOENIX (AP) - There was a time in the Wild West that cowboys had to check their guns before they could pull up a bar stool for a drink - rules that protected against the saloon gunfights that came to define the frontier era in places like Arizona.

But a bill moving through the Arizona Legislature has some bar owners fearful that the state is turning back the clock to the Old West. Lawmakers are considering a bill that would allow anyone with a concealed-weapons permit to bring a handgun into bars and restaurants serving alcohol.

The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster.

"This might be one of the stupidest things that I have heard of," said Mike Nelson, who owns Pomeroy's bar in Phoenix and plans to post a sign on his front door outlawing guns in his bar as soon as possible. "Can you think of a single reason guns and alcohol should be intertwined?"

The bill is part of a nationwide push by the National Rifle Association. Georgia passed a similar law in 2008, as did Tennessee earlier this year in becoming the 40th state to allow bar or restaurant patrons to carry guns.

"These laws are common sense," said NRA spokeswoman Rachel Parsons. "Restaurants are not immune to criminal activity. Law-abiding people - regardless of whether they're in restaurants, cars or homes - they should be able to protect themselves against criminal attack."

One of the bill's sponsors, Republican Rep. John Kavanagh, said it's about time Arizona passes such a law, and that the most important thing is that people carrying guns into bars aren't allowed to drink.

"You don't want intoxicated people with weapons, and this bill continues the prohibition against drinking and carrying," said Kavanagh, a retired police officer in New York and New Jersey. "What is the problem with having a gun in a delicatessen where someone is having a beer with their pastrami two tables away?"

The law would only apply to people with concealed-weapons permits because lawmakers say that type of gun owner has to pass a background check and take an eight-hour course to get their permits, and are therefore safer. More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed-weapons permits, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety.

Arizonans are also allowed to openly carry guns - on a belt or holster, for example. But those people would still not be allowed in bars or restaurants serving alcohol if they're armed.

The bill has been approved by the Senate and is now before the House; Republican Gov. Jan Brewer would still have to OK it.

Marc Peagler, owner of the Silver Spur Saloon Restaurant in Cave Creek outside Phoenix, said he's in favor of the legislation and sees some marketing potential in it.

"I look at it this way - let's just say for a moment you're a crook or a thief," Peagler said. "Are you going to break into a place where you know that there might be 10 to 15 people who are armed? I wouldn't do that."

Peagler, a gun owner himself, said people with concealed-weapons permits aren't people to be concerned about.

"People who carry concealed weapons for the most part are your general law-abiding citizens, and the people who are going to break the law are going to do it no matter what laws we have out there," he said. "If somebody has been drinking and they have a weapon in the car, they're just going to go out and get it."

Frank Murray, owner of Seamus McCaffrey's Irish Pub & Restaurant in downtown Phoenix, said he opposes the law and will prohibit his customers from coming in armed.

"It's kind of like the Wild West days," he said. "We've got enough nuts out on the street walking around with guns. We don't need them in places with alcohol and families."

The Arizona Licensed Beverage Association threw its support behind the bill after some compromises were made this week. The Arizona Restaurant Association has taken a neutral stance, but in previous years came out against most bills that would have allowed guns in bars and restaurants with alcohol.

This year's bill is one of several measures loosening gun laws moving through the Arizona Legislature.

In May, the House overwhelmingly approved a bill that would permit gun owners to keep a weapon out of sight in a locked vehicle in a parking lot or garage. That would override employers that ban weapons on their property.

Last week, a Senate committee approved a bill that would allow Arizonans to carry concealed weapons without state permits, despite objections from law enforcement.

[ColtCrazy]

The Wild West returns. If they would just make dueling legal again...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Umm ... "only in Arizona"? Not quite. In fact, it's unusual to find states where it isn't permitted.

Georgia passed a similar law in 2008, as did Tennessee earlier this year in becoming the 40th state to allow bar or restaurant patrons to carry guns.

[Chief Rum]

The bill is part of a nationwide push by the National Rifle Association. Georgia passed a similar law in 2008, as did Tennessee earlier this year in becoming the 40th state to allow bar or restaurant patrons to carry guns.

I found this part more interesting, making me wonder why it's a big deal then in Arizona.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... "only in Arizona"? Not quite. In fact, it's unusual to find states where it isn't permitted.

yeah just noticed that and edited it, I was really surprised to see haw many states do allow this. With Georgia being one has there every been a situtation down there?

The reason I ask that is outside of the very rare "wacko" shooting spree, I don't think I have ever encountered a crime while in a restaurant or club, outside of a fight of course I can't see adding guns to that mix as a good idea in a crowded club.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I found this part more interesting, making me wonder why it's a big deal then in Arizona.

I think one reason is Arizona is easily one of the easiest states to obtain a concealed permit in last I checked, so we have quite a few people here with them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

yeah just noticed that and edited it, I was really surprised to see haw many states do allow this. With Georgia being one has there every been a situtation down there?

The law is relatively new here, passed last year. Our covers only restaurants (and buses & state parks) not bars, and like many others prohibits drinking & carrying.

But the closest we've come to an incident was probably when we had a legislator make it pretty clear that he & a team of attorneys were looking for a restaurant to fail to follow the law so that he could sue & proactively have the statue upheld in court (it's believed to be pretty much airtight). As far as I know, he had no takers.

[CU Tiger]

The bar owner still has a right to dis allow it.
Secondly, why do you assume everyone in a bar is drunk?

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

The legislature is apparently looking at passing this bill - Regardless of your stance on Gun control this one just yells STUPID to me. Even more amazing since we have some of the toughest Drunk Driving laws and in country, so lets allow people to parade around getting drunk strapped up instead. I was really shocked to see how many states allow this.

And the NHRA quote about it being common sense. Is it realy fucking common sense for someone drunk with a concealed weapon to try and intercede in say a robbery at a bar that erupts into an exchange of gunfire, again with one party drunk?

My Way News - Arizona moves to allow concealed guns in bars

The way you wrote your post implies it is legal to get drunk in a bar and carry a concealed weapon.

[cubboyroy1826]

Wow i have to agree mixing gun with alcohol is probably not a good idea at all. I am not saying everyone at a bar is drunk but i am saying that a beer or two does seem to give some people quite a bit more courage.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

The way you wrote your post implies it is legal to get drunk in a bar and carry a concealed weapon.

No, but you can't tell me that everyone who takes their gun into a Bar will not be drinking.....That's why most people go to bars and as Roy mentioned, ever a couple of Beers can change a persons attitude/courage level.

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

The bar owner still has a right to dis allow it.
Secondly, why do you assume everyone in a bar is drunk?

And hopefully most will disallow it.

On the second point I don't think I ever stated or offered the assumption that everyone in a Bar is drunk and being drunk isn't in a pre-requisite of poor judgement, for some as mentioned above 2 Beers can cause that.

I am not anti-Gun by any means, I just don't see the need to have a concealed weapon in a Bar where the potential for conflict is a bit higher than most places the public gathers outside of some sporting events. Do you honestly see the need to have a concealled weapon in a Bar CU?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

The reason I ask that is outside of the very rare "wacko" shooting spree, I don't think I have ever encountered a crime while in a restaurant or club, outside of a fight of course I can't see adding guns to that mix as a good idea in a crowded club.

You've encountered a wacko shooting spree?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Logan

You've encountered a wacko shooting spree?

As Shooter McGavin would say.........."NO!"

[stevew]

So, this is legal in 40 other states, and it's not like we routinely have bullets flying over the bar. The people that take the time to register their shit, to take the proper classes and such.....I don't worry about those folks. People who don't take the shit seriously coughPlexicocough are the ones that make guns look bad.

[BYU 14]

I realize that and in a lot of those states the law applies only to restaurants. My point is, even if the law results in only one death that wouldn't have otherwise happened, it is one death too many. And I would place a hefty bet that if the law passes here, within the first year somebody with a concealed weapon (with a permit) will shoot somebody in a bar as a result of a fight or argument. Sorry, I just don't see the need for it.

And I agree with you on the responsible permit holders that do what they need to do, unfortunately not everyone falls under that category.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I realize that and in a lot of those states the law applies only to restaurants. My point is, even if the law results in only one death that wouldn't have otherwise happened, it is one death too many. And I would place a hefty bet that if the law passes here, within the first year somebody with a concealed weapon (with a permit) will shoot somebody in a bar as a result of a fight or argument. Sorry, I just don't see the need for it.

And I agree with you on the responsible permit holders that do what they need to do, unfortunately not everyone falls under that category.

Think about what you are saying. Anyone that does not fall under the category of legally obtaining a permit is not even a part of this discussion. Those people are carrying illegally and will do so regardless of the law. Those people are carrying in bars today.

Your one death statement is silly. Under that veiw nobody would be able to drive a car because it would save one death, etc.

[CU Tiger]

I should have worded my statement, not everyone in a bar is drinking.

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Do you honestly see the need to have a concealled weapon in a Bar CU?

Depends on the definition of Bar. In SC a restaurant that has a bar area, is classified as a bar for purposes of CC. by that definition when I ate dinner at Chilli's last night (with my CCA) I was in a bar.

In that case, yes I do.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Think about what you are saying. Anyone that does not fall under the category of legally obtaining a permit is not even a part of this discussion. Those people are carrying illegally and will do so regardless of the law. Those people are carrying in bars today.

Your one death statement is silly. Under that veiw nobody would be able to drive a car because it would save one death, etc.

I am not even talking about people carrying illegally, having a permit does not make you responsible and this has the potential to add more guns to the mix.

Sorry, I don't think that's a good comparison Gram. Driving is a necessity for most people, carrying a concealed weapon is not. (And if you think it is a necessity to carry, you have that right by law and that's fine)

I guess I am in the minority here, just my opinion. I do own a Gun, but it stays in my House and always will unless I am target shooting.

[JediKooter]

Dance Eastwood!!!

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... "only in Arizona"? Not quite. In fact, it's unusual to find states where it isn't permitted.

I don't think this was answered, but I skimmed.. I believe they're saying Arizona is the only one allowing a concealed weapon.

[AZSpeechCoach]

I was down at the legislature yesterday and learned a little bit about this bill. It seems that there are legal protections built into the law to protect bar owners who allow concealed weapons into their bar. If a bar owner doesn't allow weapons into their establishment, they will be held responsible for any incidents in the bar, whether or not a concealed weapon could have prevented it...or something like that.

[miked]

So they are trying to pass a law allowing concealed weapons to cut down on bar incidents?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by AZSpeechCoach

I was down at the legislature yesterday and learned a little bit about this bill. It seems that there are legal protections built into the law to protect bar owners who allow concealed weapons into their bar. If a bar owner doesn't allow weapons into their establishment, they will be held responsible for any incidents in the bar, whether or not a concealed weapon could have prevented it...or something like that.

That's Bullshit, if you allow Bar owners to make a choice under the law the legal ramifications for an incident occuring should be the same.

I don't like the fact that a business owner can be sued for the stupidity of others on their premises regardless, but if they have hired security as pretty much all Dance clubs here in AZ do, then that is taking adequate measures to protect your patrons IMO.