Buying land

[miked]

I figured I'd ask here since most blogs/advice I can find are written by realtors. Has anyone here had any experiences in buying land? The lady and I were at Lake Burton the past few days and I realized I'd really love a house in the mountains/river area. Obviously, the parents of our friends bought these houses 30 years ago and they are now worth gold. We can't afford 500k on a vacation house, let alone 250k (lake houses in GA are about 800k+). We can afford land and thought about buying some up in North GA so we can have camping access and eventually build a house when we can afford it.

I found a nice pre-foreclosure spot near Lake Blue Ridge that has 300' of river frontage, a nice 30-40 yard wide stream area stocked by the NSFS, and it's 2.2 acres. Also they said there was a recent soil analysis and survey done and they have permission for a 3/2 septic tank. So I'm assuming it can be built on (which we wouldn't do for a while). Are there a lot of foreclosures on land? This one was about 50k, which seems pretty cheap for river frontage of that size. The pics looked pretty good and I may ask the realtor to sent the survey.

What are some things to look out for if anyone has done this? Are the loans hard to get (we'd probably like to finance a majority of this)? Can zoning change (ie could they decide in a few years to make it wetlands or something else you can't build on)? People here tend to be knowledgeable with wide sets of experiences. I know nobody who has bought land (friends of mine). Further, will Jon lend me some guns to protect my property?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by miked

Further, will Jon lend me some guns to protect my property?

[Izulde]

Funny you mention this, since I'm considering buying some land in Scotland and a Scottish title of gentry, where I would thereafter be no longer Mr, but Lord.

Unfortunately, I can't help you here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yeah, zoning can pretty much always change, especially any time the master land use plan for a county is altered. And while you might be grandfathered in if you had already built, "planning to build eventually" won't be worth a bucket a warm spit if the zoning changes. You're wise to think that far ahead, a lot of people don't.

Another red flag that went up with your description though was the bit about the septic tank. That's great but you better make sure that there's water service in the area, unless you're planning to try to go with a well (and even that assumes you could get a well permit). Not every place has anyone willing to provide water these days and you can't even completely safely assume that just because a neighboring parcel has water that you could get the same thing tomorrow or years down the road. And yeah, I'd say there's a decent amount of land-only foreclosures out there right now, really there's always a certain amount of that any place I've ever dealt with.

Just from some isolated info over the past few years that other people have mentioned to me, I'd suggest you also take a look at lake property over in Alabama as it can run cheaper than in Georgia, especially the NE GA mountains. Depends on whether you're more into the mountain view or the water view I guess.

Guns? I don' know nuthin' bout no guns, you must have me confused with someone else

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Funny you mention this, since I'm considering buying some land in Scotland and a Scottish title of gentry, where I would thereafter be no longer Mr, but Lord.

Excellent - I've a bridge in central London you might be interested in purchasing after you've bought your position in clan Vaughan .... let me know when you've signed the cheques and they're ready for posting

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Excellent - I've a bridge in central London you might be interested in purchasing after you've bought your position in clan Vaughan .... let me know when you've signed the cheques and they're ready for posting

I said gentry, not nobility!

[miked]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, zoning can pretty much always change, especially any time the master land use plan for a county is altered. And while you might be grandfathered in if you had already built, "planning to build eventually" won't be worth a bucket a warm spit if the zoning changes. You're wise to think that far ahead, a lot of people don't.

Another red flag that went up with your description though was the bit about the septic tank. That's great but you better make sure that there's water service in the area, unless you're planning to try to go with a well (and even that assumes you could get a well permit). Not every place has anyone willing to provide water these days and you can't even completely safely assume that just because a neighboring parcel has water that you could get the same thing tomorrow or years down the road. And yeah, I'd say there's a decent amount of land-only foreclosures out there right now, really there's always a certain amount of that any place I've ever dealt with.

Just from some isolated info over the past few years that other people have mentioned to me, I'd suggest you also take a look at lake property over in Alabama as it can run cheaper than in Georgia, especially the NE GA mountains. Depends on whether you're more into the mountain view or the water view I guess.

Guns? I don' know nuthin' bout no guns, you must have me confused with someone else

Interesting perspective, the water thing was a little iffy to me as well as the site said --description below-- but the only description was about the septic. It makes it really difficult with the potential zoning changes, or even utility access changes, as we likely would just be able to use it for camping for a few years until we had enough to build a cabin.

Alabama is interesting. We are trying to keep about a 2-2.5 hour drive max, but heading down 20 or northwest toward Alabama may work well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

Alabama is interesting. We are trying to keep about a 2-2.5 hour drive max, but heading down 20 or northwest toward Alabama may work well.

I couldn't remember precisely where you were located but for a point of reference (and the reason I thought about 'bama) a buddy of mine that lives in Newnan uses his property in Alabama about 4 or 5 times as often as he used the property he had up in Clayton. In his case, it cut the drive time by maybe two hours each way. I can't remember exactly where his place is now, but it's on some power company lake over there.

[kcchief19]

Don't confuse zoning with other issues. Zoning is a question of whether a piece of ground is zoned for residential, commercial, what density, etc. Short of eminent domain being used to separate you from your ground, zoning can't change without a property owner's consent.

My two cents from my background in home-building/real estate: I would be much more concerned with the stream. The city/county/state may have requirements on what type of disturbance can be done. Is the land in a flood plain or protected area? Some of these issues vary from state to state, but for example in Missouri to build on a piece of ground like you're describing you'd need permits from the city/county, the state department of natural resources, possible the corps of engineers and probably the EPA. Those last three are entirely going to be concerned about run off. Having the proper soil to build and put a septic in isn't enough -- you need to make sure the state will allow you to put a septic tank in.

As for the foreclosure/financing part of it, there is plenty of ground in foreclosure so that's not a surprise. You'll probably find more foreclosed lots if you poke around. On the financing side, you can almost bet the appraisal will come in less than the asking price right now and I would bet the farm you can't get financing for more than 80% of the purchase price. I wouldn't be surprised if some lenders want you to put 40% down since it's just land and no structure.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Don't confuse zoning with other issues. Zoning is a question of whether a piece of ground is zoned for residential, commercial, what density, etc. Short of eminent domain being used to separate you from your ground, zoning can't change without a property owner's consent.

Maybe where you are, but that's not quite true in Georgia. The issue of "takings" do not require the application of imminent domain in the traditional sense and land may be rezoned without owner's consent as long as a general greater good to the public (or other phrasing) exists in at least in several states (incl. Georgia, South Carolina, and Arizona that I found with a little Googling) regardless of whether ownership of the land changes. I think the phrase "blanket rezoning" is used in some of these cases, a power that is delegated to local governments in at least some states. Realistically though that method isn't used often but does exist.

In Georgia, probably the most common way land gets rezoned without owner consent is through municipal annexation. By law here, once an annexation is completed, the land becomes "unzoned" and is given whatever designation the new jurisdiction see fit. Your A1 can become an R4 with the stoke of a pen.

In rural areas here it's much more common to see wholly unofficial (and often illegal) de facto zoning used to restrict various uses of land. Deny you building permits, deny you water service, deny you building inspection approval/certificate of occupancy, etc. It's usually a fight that can be won in court eventually but how many people can afford the process? But time & again you see local governments here willing to spend the money to defend actions that even their legal counsel tells them aren't sustainable.

The other issue that connects to this sort of thing is the mandated local comprehensive land use plans, which must be updated at least every ten years under Georgia law (which is often ignored). It's not unusual to see significant changes made as political control ebbs & flows, and suddenly your R-1 property is surrounded by newly created rezonings to C-1 or HI or whatever. And then you haven't been zoned out of what you wanted legally but you're definitely looking at a whole different environment that's suddenly unappealing. Waterfront property does decrease the chances of it happening in this case but it's another zoning related issue that is probably worth keeping in the back of your mind if you're looking at a very long term proposition on an undeveloped piece of land.

[CU Tiger]

Id be concerned to see a perk report.
And water table report.

Beyond that covenance and restrictions (would suck to find this parcel has a 10,000 sq ft min when there are single wides next door like a friend of mine on hartwell)...

Most banks will only go 15 years on land regardless...at least in my experience.

[sterlingice]

Man, I've learned a lot more about land owning that I thought I would in this thread

SI