Never Forget

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

So I sent out an email to friends and family and such to remember the victims of the 9/11 tragedy. One of them sends me back an email that simply states "9/11 was an INSIDE JOB, read the truth HERE" (a link to 911truth.org).

WTF. This is a person my wife worked with last year and I never would have guessed she felt this way. More importantly, though, is the disrespect shown to my email for remembering the victims. I don't really care what people believe or don't believe, but I don't feel that was the time/place for it.

Some people just feel the need to shove their views in your face no matter what.

National Geographic HD has a special running where they look at some of the stuff from the "Truthers" and put it to the test with one of the big explosive labs out in New Mexico. These folks won't except anyone else's evidence because they "know" what happened. Sigh.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

National Geographic HD has a special running where they look at some of the stuff from the "Truthers" and put it to the test with one of the big explosive labs out in New Mexico. These folks won't except anyone else's evidence because they "know" what happened. Sigh.

Which folks are you referring to? The government, or the conspiracy theorists? (a reasonable case can be made for both I suppose).

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Which folks are you referring to? The government, or the conspiracy theorists? (a reasonable case can be made for both I suppose).

(Rewriting this). NG HD tested a lot of the things the "Truthers" (the 911Truth folks) were claiming and found that the current explanations fit the data MUCH better than anything the Truthers have proposed. And then they asked the Truthers about it and they'd blow it off, or nitpick some aspect of the test, without having reasoned arguments about it. They've decided the government did this, that none of this could have been caused by planes crashing into the buildings (they claim thermite in taking down the Twin Towers, and an explosive in the Pentagon), and they won't listen to physical evidence / testing to the contrary.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Well, the government was not involved in the conversation, so I'm obviously talking about the conspiracy theorists. Exactly what evidence about 9/11 did the government ignore / make up?

To be clear, I'm talking about the group you referred to that the person forwarded you info on.

Oh, ok. Just making sure. According to these people, the government ignored/made up all kinds of shit so they could secretly stage a terrorist attack and kill its own innocent civilians. I guess this was to make sure the stock market plummeted? *sigh*

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

(Rewriting this). NG HD tested a lot of the things the "Truthers" (the 911Truth folks) were claiming and found that the current explanations fit the data MUCH better than anything the Truthers have proposed. And then they asked the Truthers about it and they'd blow it off, or nitpick some aspect of the test, without having reasoned arguments about it. They've decided the government did this, that none of this could have been caused by planes crashing into the buildings (they claim thermite in taking down the Twin Towers, and an explosive in the Pentagon), and they won't listen to physical evidence / testing to the contrary.

Yeah, I am pretty sure an airplane flying into a building is going to cause it to, ummm....collapse.

[gstelmack]

To add to it, it's like moon landing hoax folks, who claim things based on gut feeling without actually testing it. One of my favorite Mythbusters episodes was on this...

[molson]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Oh, ok. Just making sure. According to these people, the government ignored/made up all kinds of shit so they could secretly stage a terrorist attack and kill its own innocent civilians. I guess this was to make sure the stock market plummeted? *sigh*

No wait, I think it was so they'd have an "excuse" to invade Iraq, and so that war could then be waged smoothly and completely unopposed by all U.S. citizens and the world. Which is of course, exactly what happened. I mean really, it kind of seems like a lot of work and trouble just increase support for a war from people whose support you don't need at all. I can think of a few easier ways - why not just plant a fictional link between Iraq and terrorism, or just plant WMDs in Iraq. Nice and easy.

My favorite theory is that it wasn't a plane that hit the pentagon, and I guess, that plane never really existed. The people on that plane were perhaps genetically engenered by the government to live their lives on Earth for years before, to trick everyone into thinking they were really people, only to be decativated at that moment and put back into the underground robot factory. Something like that.

Oh wait, and there's the one (which at least a few members of this board believe), that since one news reporter reported an "explosion" that sounded like a "bomb", that the WTC was actually destroyed with bombs for some reason. Of course, if every news report was actually true that day, then there were a huge amount of attacks that were actually secretly and mysteriously thwarted (hijacked planes from London, bombs going off in parked cars, etc).

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by molson

No wait, I think it was so they'd have an "excuse" to invade Iraq, and so that war could then be waged smoothly and completely unopposed by all U.S. citizens and the world. Which is of course, exactly what happened. I mean really, it kind of seems like a lot of work and trouble just increase support for a war from people whose support you don't need at all. I can think of a few easier ways - why not just plant a fictional link between Iraq and terrorism, or just plant WMDs in Iraq. Nice and easy.

My favorite theory is that it wasn't a plane that hit the pentagon, and I guess, that plane never really existed. The people on that plane were perhaps genetically engenered by the government to live their lives on Earth for years before, to trick everyone into thinking they were really people, only to be decativated at that moment and put back into the underground robot factory. Something like that.

Oh wait, and there's the one (which at least a few members of this board believe), that since one news reporter reported an "explosion" that sounded like a "bomb", that the WTC was actually destroyed with bombs for some reason. Of course, if every news report was actually true that day, then there were a huge amount of attacks that were actually secretly and mysteriously thwarted (hijacked planes from London, bombs going off in parked cars, etc).

Nicely done. You did forget something though. If you look very carefully at the airplane footage before it hits the WTC, you will see a hand holding it from the rear. Obviously, this means that it was really just a miniature WTC, NYC, toy airplanes, and thousands of puppets.

[saldana]

I live about 80 miles as the crow flies from NYC...i was a county 911 dispatcher and at the time, and worked 6pm to 6am the following night...of all the calls i took in 8 years of doing that job, one of the ones i will never forget was the little old lady that called 3 times in tears because she was afraid that we were be bombed again....nothing i could say could convince her that all she was hearing was a thunderstorm

[Autumn]

The thing that I think will be forgotten over the years go on, by those who don't remember that day, was how unsure we were about what was happening. I think we all spent that day and maybe the whole week after wondering what was next. When we realized it was three and then four planes, I remember just wondering what else had been orchestrated, waiting for a news flash any moment of some new tragedy somewhere else. Looking back it's hard to remember how little idea we had of what was going on.

[MizzouRah]

Sad day.. brought back all of those memories this morning when I looked at the date on my blackberry.

[MrBug708]

Watching Flight 93 is a very hard thing to do without feeling a wave of emotions

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Autumn

The thing that I think will be forgotten over the years go on, by those who don't remember that day, was how unsure we were about what was happening. I think we all spent that day and maybe the whole week after wondering what was next. When we realized it was three and then four planes, I remember just wondering what else had been orchestrated, waiting for a news flash any moment of some new tragedy somewhere else. Looking back it's hard to remember how little idea we had of what was going on.

Yeah, it happened so fast that I forgot how frightened I was. My parents were both working in Chicago (Mom near O'Hare) and I was really worried about something happening in the city.

There were reports of other planes that they couldn't find on TV and of random explosions. You really didn't know who was doing it or how long it would last for. There was a stretch of about an hour where you really just waited to hear about a plane striking something else.

[JS19]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Ran into a high school buddy and former cross country teammate of mine - Joshua Carbajal - on the evening of September 10th, 2001. Told me he had joined the Marines and was leaving the next day for basic. I remember thinking a couple of days later that the timing was less than ideal.

Saw him again a year or so later. He came into Best Buy in uniform, and I got the chance to speak with him for a few minutes.

Haven't seen him since, although my Google-fu has turned up a few mentions of him. He apparently served in both Iraq and Afghanistan during the 2003-2005 period, and made it at least as high as sergeant in the Corps. Google turned up a mention of him in a book about another Marine.

That said, 2005 seems to be where he disappears in terms of any definitive mention. I think he's still around, as all of the definitive mentions refer to him as a lance corporal, and a military mothers' website from the town we attended high school refers to him as sergeant, but...can't be sure.

Hope he's doing well, wherever he is.

SGT Joshua P. Carbajal? If so, the best I can offer is that he is no longer in the Corps, he was a marksmanship coach, and if you are interested, I can PM you his last known phone number, according to the Marine Corps, anyhow.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Autumn

The thing that I think will be forgotten over the years go on, by those who don't remember that day, was how unsure we were about what was happening. I think we all spent that day and maybe the whole week after wondering what was next. When we realized it was three and then four planes, I remember just wondering what else had been orchestrated, waiting for a news flash any moment of some new tragedy somewhere else. Looking back it's hard to remember how little idea we had of what was going on.

Good call. I remember my then-GF calling from Notre Dame and asking if we were going to bomb Israel as a result of the attacks. I was flabbergasted at why we would come to that conclusion, but I guess there were a lot of confused people giving her bad information. I remember coming home on the Metra that evening and hearing about the rocket fire in Afghanistan (the Northern Alliance attacking the Taliban) and people wondering if we had launched an attack there.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I remember when I got home that night I went to my church, the doors were locked so I sat on the steps outside, thanked God that my cousin lived and just wondered how someone could have so much hate in them.

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I still wonder this as well.

I don't think it's hate at all. It's the same reason why other people do things for their religion.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I don't think it's hate at all. It's the same reason why other people do things for their religion.

That's stupid.

There's a big difference between handing out a bunch of tracts and bringing your religion into government, and having an entire sect of a religion that supports things like 9/11 and suicide-bombing and carries it out regularly.

(Maybe I misread you, but it got my blood boiling)

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I don't think it's hate at all. It's the same reason why other people do things for their religion.

Call me crazy but I consider murdering thousands of innocent people hate, regardless of what it is in the name of.

These people use their religion as an excuse in there war against America.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

That's stupid.

There's a big difference between handing out a bunch of tracts and bringing your religion into government, and having an entire sect of a religion that supports things like 9/11 and suicide-bombing and carries it out regularly.

(Maybe I misread you, but it got my blood boiling)

What about bombing the shit out of a country and killing hundreds of thousands of people because God told you to?

[Wolfpack]

I was living in Ann Arbor and working at the University at the time. My work hours went roughly between 8:45 and 5:45, so I was getting on my computer maybe about fifteen minutes after things started happening in New York. I logged on to my Yahoo mail and then to the news page and noticed a blurb headline mentioning that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. I click on it and all that there is was basically what the headline said and that the story was developing still. I was thinking, much as others had, that some drunk in a Cessna or something had plowed into the WTC by accident. I momentarily put it aside until I checked in on the ACC sports board and noticed that the thread talking about the crash was huge. I clicked on the link and that's when I saw a picture of one of the WTC towers with a nice crosshair scar and flames shooting out of it. Definitely not a Cessna in the wrong place. I then tried the major news sites and discovered I could not log on to any of them. They were absolutely getting slammed at that point, I'm sure. I go across the hall to my co-worker's office and tell him that something serious is happening in New York. It was about this time I think that everyone else in the office started scraping together how serious it was. We went to another co-worker's office and listened to some of the PBS broadcast. Ultimately, without much detail and no TV available, we kind of wander back to our offices to attempt to try to get work done. However, I'm continually checking in on the ACC board and that's where I found out about the false attack at the State Department, that another plane had hit the Pentagon, that a fourth plane may have crashed in Pennsylvania, and ultimately learned of the final collapse of the WTC. One of the IT guys runs out to I guess Best Buy and comes back with a TV and people come and sit in the lunchroom to watch the TV. Very surreal, even somewhat anticlimatic since we didn't have a TV on until about noon so I didn't see the horror live as many did. Yet because of experiencing it through the internet, I was already "over" what had happened and was wondering what would happen next. We were given the option of going home early and most of us did so. Traffic was an absolute mess and my normally five minute commute probably took 30. A large number of people were lining up to go into the Red Cross that was on Packard, but as is typical of a college town and its political persuasions, there was already a peace demonstration going on across the street. The rest of the day is a bit hazy, but I'm sure my wife and I spent a fair amount of time watching the coverage.

The next day was when things really settled in on me. I leave for lunch and hear a roaring jet overhead. I look up and see it's an F-16 and I can see the missiles on the wingtips. I realize then that those missiles are live and the pilot's not on training, but is racetracking on patrol and not being subtle about it. The cause was a Civil Air Patrol plane that took off from the Ann Arbor airport, only it didn't tell anyone, causing some consternation since all air traffic is supposed to be grounded, no exceptions. Thus the combat jet with live missiles and a pilot ready to use them at the drop of a hat. The fact that an F-16 was now in the position of having to patrol the skies in defense of American territory and over my own head no less was a very chilling moment.

I had a couple of other weird moments sort of connected to 9/11. My wedding day was exactly one month before, which I guess is one of those numerology things people like to talk about like 9/9/09 or whatever. Moreover, our honeymoon was to Nova Scotia and PEI. On our way back to Detroit, we were scheduled to connect in Newark. I still remember being able to see the New York skyline and the WTC from the terminal as we killed time waiting for our connecting flight. It's weird to look back now and realize that the scene I was witnessing would be irrevocably changed less than three weeks later and that Newark was the takeoff point for a couple of those flights.

It's early fall
There's a cloud in the New York skyline
Innocence dragged across a yellow line

[Schmidty]

Forget it. I don't want to distract from the meaning of the thread anymore.

[Schmidty]

Same thing as the last post.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What about bombing the shit out of a country and killing hundreds of thousands of people because God told you to?

I thought it was for oil?

[JediKooter]

Another thing that really sticks out is, how quiet it was for the next few days after because of all flights being cancelled. I lived in the landing path for San Diego's airport and it was so freaking quiet, it just didn't seem right.

[Schmidty]

Yeah, I lived less than a quarter of a mile from the Gerald R. Ford airport, and now that you mention it, it did seem weird.

[Greyroofoo]

Well I'm gonna be in Afghanistan in a few months so all this better be worth it.

[Chief Rum]

I heard on the radio today about some Hollywood and music stars who swear up and down how they believe the conspiracy theories. It reminds me that having the talent to do stuff people enjoy doesn't necessarily mean you also have a brain.

That day still gets to me today. Like Farrah said, I hope it always does, and I don't think I need to be too concerned that it will start to fade.

It's sad to see the kids who already view it as past history, and don't understand at all what it was like, or even care, really. I think this is just a sad fact of history and time.

Think about the 40s and Pearl Harbor. That kind of moment had immense impact, and not just because it brought the US into World War II. It was a defining moment for an entire generation.

9/11 is our "defining moment". 9/11 impacted everyone, young and old, but in the end, when people talk about 9/11 and the "9/11 Generation", it's going to be about us, the people on this board and those like us, the ones in our 20s and 30s when it happened, because we're going to be the last vestige of carrying that memory, that torch of what happened that day, for decades into the future.

I went to the WTC tribute outside of Ground Zero last year on my trip to NYC, and it was very moving. It was hard to get through that tour without crying. I didn't, but I remember how emotional I was, and how it took a while to get out of the mood it put me in, even while on vacation. But I don't have a second's regret for having done that, and even knowing what was coming, would choose to do it again.

I was 28 (almost 29) at the time, and I think if I had thought they would accept me, I would have joined up, in some way, one of the services (probably the Army or the Marines). Man, how my life would be different know had I done that.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Yeah, I lived less than a quarter of a mile from the Gerald R. Ford airport, and now that you mention it, it did seem weird.

It is odd that when things that are normally there are absent. You relgate things like airplanes as just white noise in the background and when it stops, it sticks out very obviously.

I'm a little bit drunk, so I don't know if that made any sense...

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

It is odd that when things that are normally there are absent. You relgate things like airplanes as just white noise in the background and when it stops, it sticks out very obviously.

I'm a little bit drunk, so I don't know if that made any sense...

So am I, and yes it did.

[EagleFan]

I still cannot fathom the insane, murderous lunatics that were behind this. Not sure why I am watching this on the History Channel right now but it brins everything back.

What gets my blood boiling even more are the idiotic conspiracy theories that some morons try to pass off as truth. I saw a really good show on National Geographic earlier in the week where they brought a group of these idiots in and showed them scientific proof yet they still dismissed it. I am willing to bet that one idiot who made the film (forget what it is called at the moment) is just doing that to cash in on a fringe but the others seem to really believe what they are saying.

I knew someone that was killed in the WTC. I went up there a few days after the attack to volunteer and even though I saw the images on television it really sank in when I saw it first hand.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by JS19

SGT Joshua P. Carbajal? If so, the best I can offer is that he is no longer in the Corps, he was a marksmanship coach, and if you are interested, I can PM you his last known phone number, according to the Marine Corps, anyhow.

I don't know his middle initial.

Probably the same guy, though; the Joshua Carbajal I went to high school with is supposed to have reached the rank of SGT, so unless there are/were multiple Sergeant Joshua Carbajal's in the Marine Corps, that's probably him.

I appreciate the offer on the phone number, but that gets a little too stalky for me, I think. We were buds, but it was largely in the context of pushing one another in cross country. Didn't hang out much outside of that, so I'm not sure how welcome a phone call would be.

But from context it sounds as though he wasn't one of those who gave their lives in service in either of the current combat theaters, so that's welcome news.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

So am I, and yes it did.

Cool. Have a couple more on me!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I still cannot fathom the insane, murderous lunatics that were behind this. Not sure why I am watching this on the History Channel right now but it brins everything back.

What gets my blood boiling even more are the idiotic conspiracy theories that some morons try to pass off as truth.

Even more? Really? They're idiots, plain and simple and easily ignored. No need to get all frothy at the poor saps. I'm going to go with "more ticked" at the people who actually did it.

SI

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

It is odd that when things that are normally there are absent. You relgate things like airplanes as just white noise in the background and when it stops, it sticks out very obviously.

I'm a little bit drunk, so I don't know if that made any sense...

I had to work the night of Sept 11 and I remember going outside for a smoke at around 7pm and thinking about how quiet it was and how strange it was that there were no planes overhead. One of those things I never thought about until it is gone.

I can honestly say that I was a bit nervous the first day I saw a plane in the sky again. It was a completely irrational fear, even if they were going to hit us again, chance were good that it wouldn't be a suburb 20 miles north of Detroit, but that feeling was just in my gut.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Cool. Have a couple more on me!

My wife thanks you!!!!

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

I had to work the night of Sept 11 and I remember going outside for a smoke at around 7pm and thinking about how quiet it was and how strange it was that there were no planes overhead. One of those things I never thought about until it is gone.

I can honestly say that I was a bit nervous the first day I saw a plane in the sky again. It was a completely irrational fear, even if they were going to hit us again, chance were good that it wouldn't be a suburb 20 miles north of Detroit, but that feeling was just in my gut.

Yes, I think no matter where anyone was, they more than likely had that feeling for sure. I hope no one has to go through it again.

Originally Posted by Schmidty

My wife thanks you!!!!

Anytime! Doing whatever I can to help.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Even more? Really? They're idiots, plain and simple and easily ignored. No need to get all frothy at the poor saps. I'm going to go with "more ticked" at the people who actually did it.

SI

Probably not the right choice of words. Was thinking of that along the lines as already being pissed and that just pushing it a little extra (I have a very low tolerance for idiots).

If the two groups are standing in front of me it is those responsible that I want to see killed. If in that process something happened to the conspiracy nuts, that would just be like getting coke glasses at McDonalds (a little something extra).