Lost Season 6 - The Final Season

[DataKing]

They most definitely did not have it all planned out from the get-go. Or rather, they had a plan, but that plan changed along the way.

[Dodgerchick]

Originally Posted by Kodos

That's the downside with Lost. There are so many sidestories that you lose track of stuff over time. The best way to watch it would probably be to wait for the show to run its course, and then watch the whole thing over a short period on DVD.

That's a very good idea! It's frustrating when shows are off air for months. Much easier to wait til they're over and just watch the whole series marathon style. That's what we did with The Wire and I enjoyed it a lot.

[lordscarlet]

Count me in the "they're making it up as they go along" camp.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

Ah good point, I had forgotten about that. But didn't he say something along the lines that Jacob "hoped he was wrong about you"? It didn't seem like he was convinced Ben wouldn't kill him, but hoped he wouldn't for Ben's sake.

It was for Jacob's sake. Remember he told Richard that he brings people to the island to shoe MIB that humanity will choose good, that not everyone is corruptible. If Ben had backed down and not stabbed him, Jacob could have handed MIB another white pebble.

[BreizhManu]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Count me in the "they're making it up as they go along" camp.

Oh i kind of new it all along, just expected the opposite, yet there are still people with questions "why this ? why that" the answer is sometimes "because they had no clue of what they were doing".

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey32

They had a plan all along. Just be patience and let these last few episodes play out.

You have to remember in the early season they had no end date. So they had to stretch it out until they found out a end date.

The things that concern me are not so much the "stretch it out" stuff as the foundations. Hanso. Entering the numbers every 108 minutes. Dharma. Etc.

[DataKing]

Hanso certainly appears to be a bit of a loose end currently, but I thought the significance of '108' has been determined already? 4 + 8 +15 + 16 + 23 + 42 = 108.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Hanso was just in the ARG, I don't think it was ever assumed that was what it was about.

And how hasn't Dharma been explained? We don't know why the island is so special, but I assume we will be told. Do you need to know how the DI people knew about the island?

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Hanso certainly appears to be a bit of a loose end currently, but I thought the significance of '108' has been determined already? 4 + 8 +15 + 16 + 23 + 42 = 108.

No, that's not my problem. Why the hell would it be set up so that they have to enter the numbers? Why would there even be a system that required a human to enter those numbers so that the electromagneticness didn't go all haywire?

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Hanso was just in the ARG, I don't think it was ever assumed that was what it was about.

And how hasn't Dharma been explained? We don't know why the island is so special, but I assume we will be told. Do you need to know how the DI people knew about the island?

ARG?

Why they were there, why they had people doing what they were doing, how they knew about the island, how they were able to come and go safely through the time bubble around the island, why the others hated them and wanted to kill them.. things like that.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Personally I think your questions have pretty much been answered save "how they knew about the island".

Why they were there - this is obviously a special island with a lot of power. They were interested in finding ways to harness that power.

why they had people doing what they were doing - see previous answer

how they were able to come and go safely through the time bubble around the island - it has been established that you can leave the island safely (the sub)

why the others hated them and wanted to kill them - because they were in the way, and could potentially screw up the others plans for protecting jacob

Why the hell would it be set up so that they have to enter the numbers - why THE NUMBERS precisely? dunno, and wouldn't really expect to get that answer. But why they had to do it seems to have been explained ad nauseum.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

ARG?

Dola,

The Alternate Reality Game (the offseason games played early in the show). From my understanding they were never to be considered canon.

From what I understand the name Hanso has only been on the show twice: when Widmore bought the Black Rock Journal, and when Richard was purchased.

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Dola,

The Alternate Reality Game (the offseason games played early in the show). From my understanding they were never to be considered canon.

From what I understand the name Hanso has only been on the show twice: when Widmore bought the Black Rock Journal, and when Richard was purchased.

Hanso is mentioned by name as the Dharma Initiative's benefactor in the orientation film Locke and the others see in the first hatch.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Ah, fair enough. I still think it is meant to be more of an Easter Egg than a crucial plot point.

[DataKing]

Agreed. The only real importance behind Hanso is a means for at least partially explaining how knowledge of the island exists in the outside world. Whoever the Hanso is that started the Hanso Foundation, they are obviously a descendent of the Hanso who purchases Richard and therefore, through the crashing of the Black Rock, learns of the islands existence. Finding out how the captain's log from the Black Rock finds its way off the island in the first place would be nice, but certainly isn't crucial to the plot. Obviously it happened, and that's what is important.

[lordscarlet]

gah, the quoting is gone.

I don't see how WHY they had to enter the numbers has been answered ad nauseum? There was no explanation as to why it needed that level of human interaction rather than the computer doing it.

fwiw, I admit to being a bitter lost fan.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I'm guessing if not entering the numbers had the consequences we were led to believe, then they didn't want to leave it up to a machine.

[lordscarlet]

That doesn't sound like a definite answer that was given ad nauseum.

Sorry.. I'm just frustrated with the show. In my eyes they clearly had no plan and changed directions in the middle.

[BreizhManu]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

I don't see how WHY they had to enter the numbers has been answered ad nauseum? There was no explanation as to why it needed that level of human interaction rather than the computer doing it.

And there isn't an answer to that either :

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Well the ad nauseum was WHY they had to enter the numbers, not why THEY had to enter the numbers. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm not sure they had no plan. Jacob and a person-scanning Smoke Monster were around in the 2nd season. I would buy that it wasn't until the second season that they came up with this Jacob/MiB idea.

[BreizhManu]

yeah but the 2nd season was the best one (for me at least), that's where most of the mysteries appeared : Dharma, the Hatch etc...

True they probably came up with the main Jacob/MiB then (check out MrEko's dead)

[lordscarlet]

Wow. Season 2 is the worst for me.

[OldGiants]

IMO, we will learn about the numbers and the pictographs and what they meant. I expect the answer to come from a conversation involving Hurley, who will blurt out either the question or the answer.

[MrDNA]

Yeah, other than being retired Yankees numbers, I feel like "the numbers" need to have a heap of significance. They basically WERE the plot point in the beginning.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I thought they already answered the number thing. Each of the numbers corresponded with one of the potential candidates, Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, etc.

Is there supposed to be more to them?

[BreizhManu]

I'm pretty sure people hope for a better explanation than "Jacob likes numbers", still I doubt we will get anything more.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BreizhManu

I'm pretty sure people hope for a better explanation than "Jacob likes numbers", still I doubt we will get anything more.

I was satisfied enough with the explanation. I don't feel the need to get "anything more" out of that.

[lordscarlet]

Well, the "explanation" was the light house. That the number corresponds to a degree setting that allowed Jacob to look into the mirror and see someone's life. But, for bitter me, that's horse shit. I think they just threw that in there to shut people up.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Well, the "explanation" was the light house. That the number corresponds to a degree setting that allowed Jacob to look into the mirror and see someone's life. But, for bitter me, that's horse shit. I think they just threw that in there to shut people up.

That is quite bitter. I don't know what people were expecting really. That's plenty of significance for me. No explanation was ever going to please everyone, especially the more bitter Lost fans.

I like the mysteries. I like when they are answered, but they are pretty far down on the list as the reason I watch and enjoy the show. I like the characters. I like most of the stories. I think the actors are terrific. I just want to see how it ends for the characters I've grown to really enjoy over the last 6 years.

The significance of the "numbers" or any of the other various "mysteries", is really just secondary as far as I am concerned.

[BreizhManu]

Oh well myself I'm not a big fan of the characters, I find most of the main cast lousy (except for Terry O'Quinn, Michael Emerson, Jorge Garcia and Josh Holloway) so the mysteries are the main thing for me

[Honolulu_Blue]

Character-wise, of those still with us, I really like Sawyer, Hurley, Miles, Lepidus, Sun/Jin, Locke (even though he's not techinically with us), Desmond, Sayid, and Ben.

I don't mind Jack either. I find him very irritating, but I sort of like that. It seemed like they were setting to be "the hero" in the first season, but it turns out that he's really pretty heavily flawed and irritating. Still, I like him.

I was never too big a fan of Kate.

I think the cast is very strong overall and quite enjoyable.

[lordscarlet]

They spent basically two seasons talking about the numbers. Then they pretty much disappeared, then a building they somehow never saw before appears and is supposed to have all the answers.

And I agree with BreizhManu -- this show is nothing without the mysteries. It was built on them. All the immersive stuff that was online, in books, in the commercial breaks. This show was meant to be all about the story and the mysteries.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

They spent basically two seasons talking about the numbers. Then they pretty much disappeared, then a building they somehow never saw before appears and is supposed to have all the answers.

And I agree with BreizhManu -- this show is nothing without the mysteries. It was built on them. All the immersive stuff that was online, in books, in the commercial breaks. This show was meant to be all about the story and the mysteries.

I am not saying that the mysteries weren't a huge draw for a lot of people or weren't and are not still a huge part of the show's marketing campaign. They clearly are.

All I said is that for me, personally, the answers to the mysteries aren't what I am watching for. Unless there is some completely lame or horrible explanation for something, I am fine with it.

If the numbers are simply the numbers that correspond with the potential candidates in the Lighthouse. Fine. They've been explained.

Jacob's explanation about the island being the cork keeping evil at bay. I liked it. I thought it was cool. I am sure there is more to it, but so far, so good.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I disagree that they spent basically two seasons talking about the numbers. I think its something that the fanbase latched onto, for sure, but how much were they discussed in-show? Unless you mean the fact that the numbers keep reappearing, but I've always thought that to just be easter eggs. I actually thought for a while the numbers were self-fulfilling (ie Hurley in the past sees the numbers and makes a big deal about them, meaning they would have additional importance in the future, meaning he eventually hears them in the insane asylum) but we basically don't know what happened after the bomb went off.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I also still don't understand why people who are "bitter" fans, don't really like the show, or are bored by it even keep watching it. I understand that you may have put in the time already and want to see it through to the end, but if you're really that upset by the show or bored by it, but still want the answers, just read re-caps on the internet. Take a lot less time and would be a lot less painful.

I started watching "Heroes", but quit halfway through the 3rd season, since I found myself either only being incredibly bored with the show or annoyed at how bad/non-sensical it was. I followed the re-caps to keep tabs on the various arcs and characters for a while, but even that's gone by the wayside. I now don't miss it at all.

Then again, people do like to bitch about things, so there's always that.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I thought they already answered the number thing. Each of the numbers corresponded with one of the potential candidates, Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, etc.

Is there supposed to be more to them?

that happened so fast I forgot it. Thanks for reminding me.

[flounder]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

All I said is that for me, personally, the answers to the mysteries aren't what I am watching for. Unless there is some completely lame or horrible explanation for something, I am fine with it.

I agree. I would much rather the writers focus on creating a good storyline for the last season than spending time wrapping up all the loose ends.

[BreizhManu]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I also still don't understand why people who are "bitter" fans, don't really like the show, or are bored by it even keep watching it. I understand that you may have put in the time already and want to see it through to the end, but if you're really that upset by the show or bored by it, but still want the answers, just read re-caps on the internet. Take a lot less time and would be a lot less painful.

Oh I've never been a huge fan in the first place, but the mysteries hooked me up.
If they don't solve them it won't bother me that much, I'm not a huge fan and I watch pretty much anything anyway

[digamma]

Originally Posted by DataKing

They most definitely did not have it all planned out from the get-go. Or rather, they had a plan, but that plan changed along the way.

I play poker from time to time with a former writer of the show. Through the first three episodes of this season, he said that the episodes were very much in line with the initial outline they sketched at the show's inception. Haven't played with him since then to know how much the rest of the season has diverged, if at all.

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by digamma

I play poker from time to time with a former writer of the show. Through the first three episodes of this season, he said that the episodes were very much in line with the initial outline they sketched at the show's inception. Haven't played with him since then to know how much the rest of the season has diverged, if at all.

I'm rather surprised to hear that, but it may just give the appearance of not being planned out because the road from the beginning of the show to the end has been such a long and winding one. The overall tone and feel of the show has changed so much since the beginning, much more so than most shows do over their lifetimes.

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I also still don't understand why people who are "bitter" fans, don't really like the show, or are bored by it even keep watching it. I understand that you may have put in the time already and want to see it through to the end, but if you're really that upset by the show or bored by it, but still want the answers, just read re-caps on the internet. Take a lot less time and would be a lot less painful.

I think I can explain this. I have invested years in watching and thinking about what appeared to be a fascinating science fiction drama play out with all sorts of crazy things occuring that appeared, at least, to have some sort of basis in science. Now that we are nearing the end, it appears that, more and more, the ultimate answer will be that God and the Devil did everything, using their special powers and the powers of heaven/hell; aka Deus ex Machina.

The answers we just got:
How did everyone get to the island? God (Jacob) brought them.
Why did he pick who he did? God (Jacob) only knows.
Why didn't God (Jacob) help more? The Lord helps those who help themselves.
Who is the bad guy? Why Satan, of course, using all his old tools -- charm, temptation and deceit.
What is the island? The seventh seal; the closed gate of hell; the cork in the bottle that holds back the apocalypse.

I expect that we will find that the source of its power is entirely supernatural, forged through an ancient Egyptian ritual, which will then explain all the Egyptian imagery.

*sigh*

I am disappointed that the ending, although perfectly grand in scale, has decided to make all the answers the same as the ancient Greeks did -- the gods did it; thanks for watching. It sucked then and it sucks now. Too damn easy.

[spleen1015]

I don't think it is going to be that easy to figure out. Nothing has been so far.

I don't even see it as a battle of Good Vs Evil. I see it as a battle of 'something' Vs Evil.

MiB in clearly evil, but Jacob doesn't have to be good to fight it.

Yes, there is lots of religious references, but in the end I don't see the overall conflict being God Vs Satan.

[spleen1015]

Dola,

Something that just crossed my mind.

Could Adam and Eve be folks previously in the Jacob and MiB roles?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

I think I can explain this. I have invested years in watching and thinking about what appeared to be a fascinating science fiction drama play out with all sorts of crazy things occuring that appeared, at least, to have some sort of basis in science. Now that we are nearing the end, it appears that, more and more, the ultimate answer will be that God and the Devil did everything, using their special powers and the powers of heaven/hell; aka Deus ex Machina.

The answers we just got:
How did everyone get to the island? God (Jacob) brought them.
Why did he pick who he did? God (Jacob) only knows.
Why didn't God (Jacob) help more? The Lord helps those who help themselves.
Who is the bad guy? Why Satan, of course, using all his old tools -- charm, temptation and deceit.
What is the island? The seventh seal; the closed gate of hell; the cork in the bottle that holds back the apocalypse.

I expect that we will find that the source of its power is entirely supernatural, forged through an ancient Egyptian ritual, which will then explain all the Egyptian imagery.

*sigh*

I am disappointed that the ending, although perfectly grand in scale, has decided to make all the answers the same as the ancient Greeks did -- the gods did it; thanks for watching. It sucked then and it sucks now. Too damn easy.

Well, I will hold off responding to all of this until the final episode airs. Lots of assumptions packed in there.

[lordscarlet]

Another bitter standpoint: Hater Like Me: A Lost-Recap Explanation -- Surf

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

A fair opinion to have, but also very different from what was being argued in here.

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Another bitter standpoint: Hater Like Me: A Lost-Recap Explanation -- Surf

She articulates a lot of the problems that I am having with this season extremely well. And, like her, I will keep watching because I desperately want to be wrong.

I may have made some assumptions, but I believe that the intent of this episode was to finally define the conflict. Why have the wine bottle scene if the metaphoric explanation to Richard isn't intended to enlighten the audience? Why have the MIB smash it as our parting shot if it isn't intended as an allegory?

Granted, Jacob may be lying. But I think we are too far into the final countdown for another switcheroonie to be played like that.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

A fair opinion to have, but also very different from what was being argued in here.

I don't know that I realized it until I read it, but my bitterness definitely stems from the same place as the author and chesapeake.

[OldGiants]

Jacob is not god. He was dropping plenty of hints about that when Richard asked him to bring back Isobella from the dead. In fact, it looks like Jacob is thinking about packing it in himself. Hence the candidates.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

Jacob is not god. He was dropping plenty of hints about that when Richard asked him to bring back Isobella from the dead. In fact, it looks like Jacob is thinking about packing it in himself. Hence the candidates.

Even if he is not god, it leans more to the supernatural than science fiction.

[Swaggs]

Not a great episode for me.

The secret wasn't much of a secret and the flash sideways didn't reveal anything new or interesting, as far as I can tell.

They really need to get to the bottom of who Illana is soon, while there are enough episodes left to give a crap.

I'm also guessing that the four new characters that were introduced last season (Miles, Lapidus, Charlotte, and Farraday) are not going to have the opportunity to get fleshed out.