Question about Bowling/Billiards aka PING: Pumpy

[albionmoonlight]

So, for most popular sports, the average person cannot play at a world class level because your body simply cannot do the things that are required. No matter what I do, I will never be able to be 6'7", or run 40 yards in 4.5 seconds or less, or throw a baseball at 95 mph.

However, the physical extremes required by some sports (here I am thinking of things like Bowling or Billiards) seem well within the range of the average person willing to work out.

However, we are not all world-class bowlers. Why is that? And what stops people like Pumpy, who clearly bowls a lot and works at improving, from reaching a professional level?

Is it a physical thing? Do world-class bowlers have a type of inherent muscle control that most people don't? Does the typical league bowler hit a physical wall that is just as physically impossible to overcome as the wall between 4.5 speed and normal speed?

Is it mental? Is the difference between a professional bowler and a league bowler the fact that the former never ever ever makes a mistake of concentration?

Is it hours spent working on the sport? Could it be that Pumpy really could become a world-class bowler if he quit his job and practiced 50 hours a week? And that the difference between the world-class bowler and the league bowler isn't a difference of inherent ability, but one of dedication?

I think that the same thing would apply to billiards, but I don't know any billiards players on the board.

Also, please note that I am not dissing professional bowlers or billiards players. I do NOT think that what they do is easy or that I could do it if I tried. In fact, I think the opposite. I'm just trying to get a better sense of why that is.

[KWhit]

I'd put golf in that too, and I can answer the question for golf.

We don't all have the physical tools to hit a drive 350 yards, but any of us could physically get good enough to shoot par golf. But golf is freaking HARD, so we don't. And I think the 'why' there is very precise muscle control.

A golf swing must be perfectly timed and repeatable every time. The best golfers (and the best amateur non-super athletic golfers) are able to finely control their muscles during the swing so that the ball flies true and is hit solidly.

It's this fine motor control that is the "gift" of elites in these types of sports, I believe.

[Alan T]

I average 150 roughly in my bowling league, which puts me probably right around average. For me it is just a recreational activity, something to do during the winter months and an excuse to get out of the house.

Some people in my league average 200+, have bowled multiple 300 games and the difference is that they live and breath bowling. They bowl multiple times a week (some possibly even daily or near daily). They bowl year round, participate in tournaments and multiple leagues.

Mostly it is a matter of repetition, working on your mechanics, knowing exactly where to stand, where to aim, where to release, how to release, etc.

I don't know what is needed to go from a 200+ average to a professional bowler, I honestly have never watched professional bowling.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Mostly it is a matter of repetition, working on your mechanics, knowing exactly where to stand, where to aim, where to release, how to release, etc.

I would think this. There is some natural ability, as with anything - but I've bowled seven straight strikes, so I know I can do it. It's just that I can't do it over and over again.

[Poli]

I have been getting better at bowling. My brother seemingly acts like a coach for me every time we bowl together...so much so that I hear him in my head when I'm not bowling with him.

That said, I bowl once every two weeks or so. I can see improvements from where I was when my brother started teaching me to now. Nothing super drastic but I'm better. I imagine if I bowled once a week or two to three times a week I'd be even better.

I think it comes down to perfect practice and repetition...eventually removing the rough spots from your game to raise your level of play. Can we all be pro? I doubt it, but we can all be competitive in the game.

[CU Tiger]

I played "billiards" a ton up to about 2003.
I won dozens of local tournaments, was in a league where for 3 years I was the top ranked player in the league and won the team title all 3 years. At the urging of friends and family in 02 I went to Vegas and entered the NA amateur tournament. I won like 6 sets came back on the 2nd day, squeaked by 7-6, and then got took out 7-1.

I can't fully answer your question, but it is most definitely a difference in dedication. Where I was playing 8-10 hours a week, these guys were playing 8-10 hours per day.

For me, at my best I was as good as anyone there at their best. The problem was I played that elusive perfect game maybe 2 in 10 where these guys wee that way 98 out of 100. I am unsure if it was mental, physical muscle control/memory or what just there is a definite difference.

[Logan]

10,000 hours of practice is a good start.

[MCK]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Is it a physical thing? Can be for tenpin bowlers. Pro bowlers put in a lot of time and games each week to perform the way they do.

Is it mental? YES!! There a lot of things to think of when bowling. Oil patterns, ball speed, ball weight, all can affect the outcome after delivering a ball.

Is it hours spent working on the sport? As in any sport, if you have the money and time to bowl 50 games a week, you could get to that level.

And that the difference between the world-class bowler and the league bowler isn't a difference of inherent ability, but one of dedication? Dedication.

I am a duckpin bowler. I've been bowling since I was 4 and both my daughters started when they were 3.

It's harder to score in duckpins. It requires a lot of skill to make spares and sometime some luck to make strikes. The very best duckpin bowlers only average about 2.4 strikes per game.

To me it's all about the confidence in my skills to get the job done. If you don't believe in what your doing before you start bowling, you not going to succeed at a high level.

Last month Danny Wiseman (pro tenpin bowler from Maryland), bowled on one of our duckpin stops. He practiced for 2 weeks straight to get ready for the tournament. He missed the cut but his performance was not that bad. Now if I was to try and bowl a tenpin Pro stop like the one down here last month, I would have no chance. No way could I bowl 40 games in a week, or could I even understand the different oil patterns, ball reaction, lane conditions.

Tenpin bowlers also deal with more injuries so they need to try and stay in somewhat shape. Nagging wrist, arm, elbow, back injuries are always happening.

[Logan]

My eyes are bleeding.

[MCK]

Originally Posted by Logan

My eyes are bleeding.

Fixed it. Sorry about that.

[spleen1015]

Practice and education play a huge role.

When i was about 19-20, I started bowling in a league while I was in the military. For a year or so, I averaged about 140. My 3rd year, I started bowling with a guy that averaged 220. He taught me a lot about how to make adjustments. That same year, I also bowled in a league that also allowed me 3 free games of bowling every day of the week. So, that year, I was bowling about 30 games a week. My average went from the 140s into the 180s by the time those 3 months ended.

To be a pro bowler, you have to practice a lot and you have to learn how to make adjustments to lane conditions. Adjusting to lane conditions is probably the biggest hurdle I think. The pros can throw one ball and determine what to do next. They change their line or the way they throw the ball or grab another ball just from what they see throw the ball once.

[WheelsVT]

I found this excerpt interesting. It argues that it takes roughly 10,000 hours to master a skill. Those at the top of their game improved faster than those that went on to school/jobs because they were singled out to spend more time doing that skill (all-start leagues, summer/winter camps, dedication, scholarships, etc).

Malcolm Gladwell says that if you want to shine, put in 10,000 hours - Times Online

[Logan]

Originally Posted by WheelsVT

I found this excerpt interesting. It argues that it takes roughly 10,000 hours to master a skill. Those at the top of their game improved faster than those that went on to school/jobs because they were singled out to spend more time doing that skill (all-start leagues, summer/winter camps, dedication, scholarships, etc).

Malcolm Gladwell says that if you want to shine, put in 10,000 hours - Times Online

No way!

[WheelsVT]

Originally Posted by Logan

No way!

I thought that might be what you were referencing. It reminded me of that article.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by WheelsVT

I found this excerpt interesting. It argues that it takes roughly 10,000 hours to master a skill. Those at the top of their game improved faster than those that went on to school/jobs because they were singled out to spend more time doing that skill (all-start leagues, summer/winter camps, dedication, scholarships, etc).

Malcolm Gladwell says that if you want to shine, put in 10,000 hours - Times Online

I heard this statistic quoted lately in an interview. The speaker brought it up because other studies have shown that the average American watches 50,000 hours of television in his lifetime. It puts that in perspective to realize that that's enough time to master 5 different skills.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i tried to qualify for the hooters tour (golf) and could never do it. i practiced (almost) everyday for ~2 hrs for a couple years.

can't putt. more accurately can't putt on tour slope greens. but generally can't putt.

i tried everything. long putters, belly putters, unconventional grips etc. nothing worked.

wasn't for lack of practice, or confidence (sometimes) but when i needed it i couldn't.

[Pumpy Tudors]

spleen1015 was right on the money as far as bowling goes. I mean, I bowl 10-15 games per week, and my average has improved from 145 to 185 in two years. The challenge for me is that I am bowling on easy oil patterns. Yes, the conditions change slightly from day to day (or even game to game), but I don't have the opportunity to try the various oil conditions, and I don't have the luxury of having a lot of different bowling balls.

I guess what I'm saying is that there's nothing stopping me from becoming a professional-level bowler. If I put more time in, worked on varying oil conditions, and maybe added another bowling ball or two, I might be able to reach a pretty high level after a few years. It's practice, repetition, focus, and dedication. You really need to be dedicated to it. I love bowling, but I'm not dedicated at that level. I never will be. I don't have the attention span for it. So if I ever become a 200 bowler on a standard house shot, I'll be more than happy. I know I'll never put in enough work to be a 200 bowler on PBA conditions. That's my choice, though. It's possible. I'm just not doing it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

spleen1015 was right on the money as far as bowling goes. I mean, I bowl 10-15 games per week, and my average has improved from 145 to 185 in two years. The challenge for me is that I am bowling on easy oil patterns. Yes, the conditions change slightly from day to day (or even game to game), but I don't have the opportunity to try the various oil conditions, and I don't have the luxury of having a lot of different bowling balls.

I guess what I'm saying is that there's nothing stopping me from becoming a professional-level bowler. If I put more time in, worked on varying oil conditions, and maybe added another bowling ball or two, I might be able to reach a pretty high level after a few years. It's practice, repetition, focus, and dedication. You really need to be dedicated to it. I love bowling, but I'm not dedicated at that level. I never will be. I don't have the attention span for it. So if I ever become a 200 bowler on a standard house shot, I'll be more than happy. I know I'll never put in enough work to be a 200 bowler on PBA conditions. That's my choice, though. It's possible. I'm just not doing it.

See, I think 10-15 games a week is pretty dedicated

I bowl 3-6 games a week tops during the winter. During the summer, I am lucky to bowl 3 a month!

[Terps]

I think it's definitely just practice, practice, practice.

I never played pool in my life until I started working at a pool hall when I was 18 for about 4-5 years. I worked 12 hour shifts and most of it was spent playing pool.

I'm a 9 ball player, and quickly became very very good, regularly winning or placing in 9 ball tournaments, and was a top 5 player in the area 'circuit' that was set up with regional pool halls. Usually a best of 5 or 7 was played and I could break and run 2-3 of those a set, and usually break the 9 ball in at least once every other set. (I have an absolute HAMMER for a break, regularly striking the head ball in the rack and popping it up toward the light above the table, pocketing 2-3 balls. That's still stayed with me.)

Now, I play rarely if ever, and sold off all my cues. I have no problem running out a game of 8 or 9 ball on a bar table, but on a regulation table, maybe once or twice per 10 games. I still have the know how and what english to use when, etc. But I can't pocket balls like I used to.

I'm sure if I got back into it like I used to be it would come back to me, as the knowledge is still there, but I'd need to practice a lot to get my stroke back.