Interesting Article About Effects of Parenting on Parents

[Izulde]

Why Parents Hate Parenting -- New York Magazine

Although I plan on having a kid or two at some point in the future if I ever have the opportunity to, articles like this really make me think more about it.

[Ksyrup]

Meh. None of this should really be surprising, should it?

1. Relationships are hard. Having kids is a lifelong relationship, and the most intense part of that relationship requires a parent to guide this other person through their formative years. That leads to stress and times of unhappiness.

2. Like falling in love and getting married, the idea of having kids gets romanticized and over-simplified to the point where people often ignore the reality of the day-to-day monotonies and the bad times. I guess it's human nature, but people are pretty stupid/naive to go into any long-term relationship without a realistic view of what it is going to be like. Just like a romantic relationship isn't a continuous loop of the two of you running into each other's arms on a beach, your relationship with your kid isn't a continuous loop of your child running into your arms when you come home from work or whatever.

3. Any relationship worth pursuing is going to require sacrifice and won't be easy to manage.

[albionmoonlight]

I think that, for us, we are happier and more fulfilled with a child.

But I have friends without kids who plan to never have kids who are also happy with that decision.

I am glad that we are reaching a point where it is becoming more acceptable for couples to really examine the issue and decide.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Reading the article, and the videotape of the woman arguing with her 8 y/o about homework in particular, it's hard for me to wonder how much parenting styles plays a role in the results of the data. Lord knows there are a few threads around here where I prove that it's no picnic but some of the things I see routinely that would associated with parental unhappiness are also issues that arise because of certain choices that the adults have made.

There are a couple of quotes that I would say that are pretty fair “They’re a huge source of joy, but they turn every other source of joy to shit.” and the very first one “The broad message is not that children make you less happy; it’s just that children don’t make you more happy.”.

That all said though, my own experience has been that it's so completely different from a life of zero kids that it's difficult to even judge on the same scale.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That all said though, my own experience has been that it's so completely different from a life of zero kids that it's difficult to even judge on the same scale.

Yeah. I can sort of think "would I be happier or sadder if I lived closer to my parents?" Or "Would I be happier or sadder if I had gone into a different career?" And I am sure that I get lots of the details wrong, but I can at least create the alternative reality in a way that makes sense to me.

But I really cannot even picture a reality without my wife and child. Like, it is so fanciful that it would be like picturing what it would be like to be an NFL QB or something. It would be so fundamentally different in kind from my life right now that I can't get a grip of it.

Which is kind of crazy b/c my kid is only 2 years old. But it still feels that way.

[chesapeake]

I've only been a dad for 4 years, but my experience is nothing like this article. Sure, I butt heads with my 4 yo some and that is no fun; but that is insignificant in comparison to the joy I get from 90% of our time together.

I think the second quote Jon pulled says a lot. If you are not happy before children, they won't make you suddenly happy.

I simply do not agree with the first quote. I still enjoy the same leisure time activities that I did before, even if I get to undertake them much less often.

[Ksyrup]

I can imagine a life without my wife and kids. What I can't comprehend is what I'd do with all the extra time and money.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That all said though, my own experience has been that it's so completely different from a life of zero kids that it's difficult to even judge on the same scale.

+1. It feels like the time before my kids was a different lifetime entirely.

[Drake]

I agree with Jon, but I think the article makes an important distinction between "moment-to-moment" happiness and overall satisfaction, especially when it points out that people who have children (vs. people who don't ever have children) tend to be less depressed in the long term.

A great big bunch of the moment-to-moment parenting chores are just lousy, or at best, timesinks, but most of the parents I know would also agree that raising their children was/is the most important accomplishment of their lives.

I think there's an element of delayed gratification that factors in there, akin to the happiness borne of satisfaction one feels upon the completion of a massive, long-term project. Sure, you hated parts of the project while you were doing them, but when it's done, you wouldn't trade the happiness that comes from the sense of accomplishment for anything.

I suspect that people who are better at delayed gratification probably score significantly higher on the happiness scale with regards to rearing children.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I can imagine a life without my wife and kids. What I can't comprehend is what I'd do with all the extra time and money.

The world of electronics and cars and strippers...

[Galaxy]

Time had this article on one-child parents/families.

Only-Child Myths Persist As More Parents Choose One Kid - TIME

[JediKooter]

I was an only child growing up (didn't have any siblings until after I graduated high school) and I can say that I do not regret the fact that I did not have to put up with fighting with a sibling or any of the other horror stories you hear about that stuff.

[Sun Tzu]

Both articles are good reads. My wife and I were both only children. We have been together since September of '05, and married since August of '08. She will be turning 30 in less than three months, and I will be turning 29 next April. We're looking at houses in Sacramento right now (this will be our first house) which inevitably leads to the topic of kids. We haven't made a decision yet on whether or not we will be hearing the non-kitty version of feet pitter-pattering. We have made the decision however, that if we do hear that certain pitter-patter, it will be only one pair of feet...not several. I would be lying if I said I don't think about having kids on a day-to-day basis. I know I would be a good father, so that's not an issue, but for me what it always comes down to is this - Do I want to completely change my life from how it is now? For those of you who know me, you know the wife and I travel extensively. We moved to Hawai'i in January of this year almost on a whim. We take full advantage of the freedoms that come with not having a child, and I don't know what would happen if those freedoms were suddenly and instantaneously vaporized.

[JediKooter]

Why are you moving to Sacramento from Hawaii? Did you hit your head or something?

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Why are you moving to Sacramento from Hawaii? Did you hit your head or something?

lol

Hawai'i is nice, but outside of being very pretty, there are a lot more cons to living here than there are pros. This place is very behind the times, both technology wise and business wise. What's worse, they don't seem to want to get with the times. Nothing that wasn't here 500 years ago works...and that may seem like a broad blanket statement, but it's true. I imagine if you were born here then you would never notice, but if you've spent your entire life on the mainland...it doesn't take long to feel like you're stuck in the early 90's.

Additionally, I like the idea of being able to drive an hour or two to see family, or go to Reno/Tahoe if I wanted. Oh and we have several friends (who are couples) that live in Sac.

We never intended on this being a long term deal...

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

lol

Hawai'i is nice, but outside of being very pretty, there are a lot more cons to living here than there are pros. This place is very behind the times, both technology wise and business wise. What's worse, they don't seem to want to get with the times. Nothing that wasn't here 500 years ago works...and that may seem like a broad blanket statement, but it's true. I imagine if you were born here then you would never notice, but if you've spent your entire life on the mainland...it doesn't take long to feel like you're stuck in the mid 90's.

Additionally, I like the idea of being able to drive an hour or two to see family, or go to Reno/Tahoe if I wanted. Oh and we have several friends (who are couples) that live in Sac.

We never intended on this being a long term deal...

I can totally understand getting frustrated with that. I mean, that state's only export is tourists leaving the place. But man, Sacramento...I'm not sure there's a job that could pay me enough to live there. I do admit that I go to Auburn every now and then to do some gold panning on the American river.

[Ksyrup]

Get a dog first. If it ties you down to the point where you'd rather strangle it than put up with having to come back home after 6 hours to let it out, or have to spend the money to board it for a weekend trip, then I'd seriously reconsider the kid thing.

I was in a family of 4 and my wife in a family of 5. She refused to have less than 2 kids, and I had to reason/talk her out of a 3rd. When it looked like the 2nd wasn't going to happen (see this thread), she wanted to do in vitro or look at adoption. She was scared to death of having an only child.

[Anthony]

this is the only thing you need to know about parenting/having children (from someone who's now a 2-time dad):

children decrease the enjoyment/positive aspect of marriage down 1 level. if you don't have a good marriage - having a kid will make you get divorced or ruin your life. if you have an outstanding marriage, like i do, having a kid will turn it into a great marriage (or whatever adjective is one step below outstanding).

why?

kids put such a toll on a marriage and introduce such a level of stress that you need the good foundation to withstand all that stress. if your marriage is teetering then having a kid will put significant stress on an already shaky relationship.

all the rest, like parenting and raising a kid, is just trial and error. if there was one perfect guaranteed way to raise a child we'd be buying kids from a factory.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Anthony

this is the only thing you need to know about parenting/having children (from someone who's now a 2-time dad):

children decrease the enjoyment/positive aspect of marriage down 1 level. if you don't have a good marriage - having a kid will make you get divorced or ruin your life. if you have an outstanding marriage, like i do, having a kid will turn it into a great marriage (or whatever adjective is one step below outstanding).

why?

kids put such a toll on a marriage and introduce such a level of stress that you need the good foundation to withstand all that stress. if your marriage is teetering then having a kid will put significant stress on an already shaky relationship.

all the rest, like parenting and raising a kid, is just trial and error. if there was one perfect guaranteed way to raise a child we'd be buying kids from a factory.

Spot on.

Trial and error have become staples of my vocabulary.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I can totally understand getting frustrated with that. I mean, that state's only export is tourists leaving the place. But man, Sacramento...I'm not sure there's a job that could pay me enough to live there. I do admit that I go to Auburn every now and then to do some gold panning on the American river.

Don't like warm weather?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Don't like warm weather?

Haha! It's not the weather, it's Sacramento. The only thing it's got going for it is that you can at least escape north or south on the 5 or east or west on the 80.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Haha! It's not the weather, it's Sacramento. The only thing it's got going for it is that you can at least escape north or south on the 5 or east or west on the 80.

Yeah...that's another thing it's got going for it. You're within driving distance of Napa, Tahoe, Reno, San Francisco, and even Vegas if you're feeling spicey. We have 4 couple-friends living there already who we've known for years. What's odd is they all use to live near us (in San Carlos) and then they all moved when they realized it would be 20 years before they could afford a place on the peninsula. I make a decent living, but still it would be another 10-15 years before I could afford a place in or around San Carlos. I mean, who the hell wants to have a $5,000/month mortgage payment? Even fixer-uppers in San Carlos start at $800k. In Sacramento it's a little better. We can get a 4/2 house on a 8,000-10,000 square foot lot in a pristine neighborhood for $250-300k. I'm much happier with a $1,800/mo mortgage...that's less than I'm paying in rent right now.

Plus, Sac isn't all that bad. You've got the Rivercats right there if you want to watch some baseball, the Giants and A's are broadcast on TV every day, and I'll probably re-up my season tix to the Niners. There are also several beautiful parks sprinkled all throughout the area.

[JediKooter]

I can see that if you are pretty close to your friends I can understand that and that you guys like to travel a lot. There's always Sausalito! It starts with an S and ends in an O just like Sacramento.

I know I wouldn't want to pay 5K a month for a house, well, unless it was something like 10,000sqft or something like that. I just want to know, who in the hell is buying all those houses for that much? Not everyone has 6 figure paying jobs in this town. I'm definitely not planning on buying anything here, not because I can't afford it (which I can't), but, because I don't plan on being here forever. San Diego keeps calling to me.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

But I really cannot even picture a reality without my wife and child. Like, it is so fanciful that it would be like picturing what it would be like to be an NFL QB or something. It would be so fundamentally different in kind from my life right now that I can't get a grip of it.

I feel the same way when I try to imagine a life with a wife and kid. It's so foreign to me that it doesn't seem like a plausible alternate reality.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

lol

Hawai'i is nice, but outside of being very pretty, there are a lot more cons to living here than there are pros. This place is very behind the times, both technology wise and business wise. What's worse, they don't seem to want to get with the times. Nothing that wasn't here 500 years ago works...and that may seem like a broad blanket statement, but it's true. I imagine if you were born here then you would never notice, but if you've spent your entire life on the mainland...it doesn't take long to feel like you're stuck in the early 90's.

Additionally, I like the idea of being able to drive an hour or two to see family, or go to Reno/Tahoe if I wanted. Oh and we have several friends (who are couples) that live in Sac.

We never intended on this being a long term deal...

Sounds like the hardest thing for you to live without was a calendar. The early 90s were 15-20 years ago, not 500!

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Sounds like the hardest thing for you to live without was a calendar. The early 90s were 15-20 years ago, not 500!

Heh, well I meant to say that everything man-made is broken, and that any "upgrade" that is supposedly made (which also wont work) was done on the mainland 15 years ago...

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Anthony

this is the only thing you need to know about parenting/having children (from someone who's now a 2-time dad):

children decrease the enjoyment/positive aspect of marriage down 1 level. if you don't have a good marriage - having a kid will make you get divorced or ruin your life. if you have an outstanding marriage, like i do, having a kid will turn it into a great marriage (or whatever adjective is one step below outstanding).

why?

kids put such a toll on a marriage and introduce such a level of stress that you need the good foundation to withstand all that stress. if your marriage is teetering then having a kid will put significant stress on an already shaky relationship.

all the rest, like parenting and raising a kid, is just trial and error. if there was one perfect guaranteed way to raise a child we'd be buying kids from a factory.

Outstanding post HA. Really. Well Done.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Anthony

this is the only thing you need to know about parenting/having children (from someone who's now a 2-time dad):

children decrease the enjoyment/positive aspect of marriage down 1 level. if you don't have a good marriage - having a kid will make you get divorced or ruin your life. if you have an outstanding marriage, like i do, having a kid will turn it into a great marriage (or whatever adjective is one step below outstanding).

why?

kids put such a toll on a marriage and introduce such a level of stress that you need the good foundation to withstand all that stress. if your marriage is teetering then having a kid will put significant stress on an already shaky relationship.

all the rest, like parenting and raising a kid, is just trial and error. if there was one perfect guaranteed way to raise a child we'd be buying kids from a factory.

One of your best ever posts here HA, especially that last bit.

[JediKooter]

I think somebody hacked into HAs account.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Anthony

this is the only thing you need to know about parenting/having children (from someone who's now a 2-time dad):

children decrease the enjoyment/positive aspect of marriage down 1 level. if you don't have a good marriage - having a kid will make you get divorced or ruin your life. if you have an outstanding marriage, like i do, having a kid will turn it into a great marriage (or whatever adjective is one step below outstanding).

why?

kids put such a toll on a marriage and introduce such a level of stress that you need the good foundation to withstand all that stress. if your marriage is teetering then having a kid will put significant stress on an already shaky relationship.

all the rest, like parenting and raising a kid, is just trial and error. if there was one perfect guaranteed way to raise a child we'd be buying kids from a factory.

Agree that kids can end bad marriages or make them uninhabitable, but pretty much completely disagree with the dropping great marriages bit. For me, so far, any challenges kids present is completely outweighed by the additional love and respect I've gained for my wife, not just as my wife, but as a mother to our son. Your mileage obviously varies.

[Sun Tzu]

And all this from a guy who apparently "multiplies motherfaggots" whatever that is.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by digamma

Agree that kids can end bad marriages or make them uninhabitable, but pretty much completely disagree with the dropping great marriages bit. For me, so far, any challenges kids present is completely outweighed by the additional love and respect I've gained for my wife, not just as my wife, but as a mother to our son. Your mileage obviously varies.

sure, its certainly one of those YMMV deals. but in my book bringing down a marriage one level doesn't necessarily mean something as obvious as going from having no arguements to fighting all the time. it can be a loss of things that add up and one day you evaluate your relationship and realize it's noticeably different from the old days. it could mean a loss of freedom - my wife and i took a few trips before we had kids, we've had stay-cations since we've had our first born. we used to go to a club/bar every so often, we haven't done that since. so unless you and your spouse leave your kid(s) with family so you can pick up and fly wherever (and i don't mean you as in you digamma, you as in ppl in general) right there already is decreasing your marriage. i'm sure my wife would like some things that we could potentially afford if it not for the fact that funds, at least these days, are best saved for things our babies need/will need. so that means me not having the car i want. it means my wife doing more window shopping than she's used to. having kids means sacrificing the things that make you happy. of course you replace that selfish happy with family happy, but add all this sacrifice of spouse time and personal desires and lessened free time and yeah, i find it hard to believe even a perfect marriage wouldn't take at least a little ding.