The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread (will contain spoilers)

[MrBug708]

Frankly, watching anything less then a good high school team is pretty boring. Run up the middle for 2 yards every play, hope for the occasional 3/4 yard run to get a first down. Contact or not, nobody wants to see a team run the ball 50 times a game

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Frankly, watching anything less then a good high school team is pretty boring. Run up the middle for 2 yards every play, hope for the occasional 3/4 yard run to get a first down. Contact or not, nobody wants to see a team run the ball 50 times a game

I think that's probably a location thing, even at the Class A level in Georgia a lot of very average teams (and I'm being kind) have abandoned run-only offenses. By the same token, there's several very successful teams here who still do exactly what you describe. That's diversity that is a fairly new development but it's definitely something I've seen shift versus 30, 20, or even 10 years ago.

[MrBug708]

Im talking about middle schoolers, but it could also be a location issue.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Im talking about middle schoolers, but it could also be a location issue.

Even with the middle schoolers, which granted I watched more last year than I had in at least 10 years combined, I saw about as many pro style mixes as I saw run-onlies. And the same bad teams throwing/good teams running thing pretty much fit what I said about the varsity teams, although I admit that I wasn't thinking of MS when I said that.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Icy

You really don't think this deserved a red card and would have changed the game that early?

I think that the referee would have sent off de Jong if he had a clear view of the incident, but it looked like his view of the tackle was possibly obstructed by Xabi Alonso's body, so he may not have realised just how dangerous the play was.

I assume the linesman did not see the tackle.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I actually didn't see the kick to the chest when it happened, was out of the room at the time. But when I saw the replay I cannot understand how that wasn't a red. I can understand wanting to keep it 11 on 11 but I can't see how anyone could complain if that was called a red.

The only answer then is that he didn't see it 1st time either. I'll own up - I didn't 1st time either. Thought it was a knee in Alonso's chest, which yellow would have been right for.

So that's at least three of us: me, Howard Webb... and you!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Icy

I hate diving as much as you, i admit Iniesta dived in the second yellow card play but... I know it's not an excuse, but the problem is how the game is called, and there is an explanation about why they dive:

- No falling down = no foul given: for example look at Robbens play, he didn't dive so no foul was called, when I admit it should have as Puyol impeded him.

This should be changed but there is also a reason and it's the advantage rule, that says that if a foul is made but the fouled player can keep the play, then the ref should not call it and let the play end, as it could end on a goal that is a better prize than a foul. But if the ref thinks the play will continue and it ends not, then he must call the foul even later. The problem comes form applying that rule on the fly, at the speed the game is played, and with all the things happening at same time. We could enter in another debate here that is the non usage of replays or technology by the refs or not having more refs on the field etc.

- If players like Iniesta don't jump and/or dive when an opponent is comming to hit them, all the small skilled players would have to retire from pro football after 1 season. Did you see the amount of hits Iniesta took? the more skilled the player, the more hits he gets from other players who are not skilled enough to steal the ball without hitting them, and remember hitting is not allowed in soccer, so the ref should protect them more without them having to dive.

People is comparing it to football or basketball or hockey, but in all those sports is not allowed and is not usual to hit the legs when planted on the floor (you can't tackle at the knees in football if i'm not mistaken). In soccer, most of the fouls are on the legs, and a kick on your leg while planted, with the aluminum claws inside the grass, means your knee is broken and your career is over (as have happened a lot of times) so a lot of times they jump to avoid that. Also it's a natural thing to fall down when your legs are hit and you are at full sprint, even if it's an small touch.

(Almost) no one is complaining about players going down easily - it's only when they start clutching a different body part, rolling around and begging the ref for cards. And in football you are allowed to tackle at the knees - the only real rule is you're not supposed to lead with your helmet, but it's rarely enforced (see: Willis McGahee vs. Ohio State).

Your first point I completely agree upon - it's bad refereeing to only call penalties when the player goes down, which leads to players exaggerating and fair play being discouraged. As an American it never even crosses my mind to go down while the ball is live, and as a ref I was called a racist when I would hand out cards to Portuguese and Hispanic players who flopped. But you can't use it to excuse the players actions - I honestly lost some respect for Iniesta and gained some for Robben based off their actions. His play wasn't as bad as Rivaldo's or even the Ivorian that drew a Red on Kaka, but it's lucky for Iniesta's reputation he can play his whole career in Spain, because he'd get destroyed in the media if he played in any northern European league. You didn't see Fabregas or Torres pulling blatant dives (albeit they weren't on the pitch as much) and even Cristiano Ronaldo toned it down after season 1 at ManU.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

My question is why doesn't FIFA put more eyes on the pitch? Are soccer fans generally accepting of so many demonstrably wrong decisions?

Gotta find these officials from somewhere as well. In England for example there is already a deficit of 7000 referees.

There are not the numbers to put more officials in every game.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Gotta find these officials from somewhere as well. In England for example there is already a deficit of 7000 referees.

There are not the numbers to put more officials in every game.

That makes sense. I was just struck by how many calls were clearly wrong in the average World Cup match.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

The only answer then is that he didn't see it 1st time either. I'll own up - I didn't 1st time either. Thought it was a knee in Alonso's chest, which yellow would have been right for.

So that's at least three of us: me, Howard Webb... and you!

Me too, along with the other 7 people in the room. We all thought it just looked like a standard clumsy/reckless challenge that was a no-brainer yellow card. Was pretty astounded to see the replay.

I imagine Webb had to be at a strange angle and didnt see all of it.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Doesn't have to be, in terms of the amount of contact.

If that's considered some sort of devastating collision (or whatever the hell people are on about), then yeah, I'd say the complaints about the Nancy nature of soccer players may deserve more attention than I usually give it. That's not usually one of my arguments against the unwatchability of soccer, but if that's considered a really big deal in terms of contact, then maybe I should include it.

But if the 12 y/o football comparison disturbs people, feel free to substitute "there's more violent contact than that in the average WNBA game". And that I suspect Sylvia Fowles is only one of several players who could make most soccer players cry like, well, a little girl.

Football players get partially conditioned to hits in the chest, much like rugby players, and train/take impact to toughen up the areas where they git. So they are physically partly prepared, and will generally expect to get hit in that area.

Footballers generally get kicked in the legs, not the chest, and much as de Jong didn't see Alonso, Alonso didn't see de Jong.

So what we have is a guy who is not braced for impact, not wearing pads or cushioning, getting the full weight of the impact on an area not accustomed to getting hit. Add in that that impact was then channelled through probably six 10mm diameter metal studs, that's gonna hurt anyone.

In fact I'd put money on the fact that that would hurt 99.9% of people even if there were expecting it if all other facts remained the same.

However, the feigning injury after no contact, waving imaginary cards, haranguing of the ref, etc is depsicable and does detract from the game

[Mac Howard]

I don't believe there's any question that gridiron is a far more physical game than soccer which I think has the least ratio of a physicality to skill of all football games. But the collisions are bone on bone than padded soft tissue and easily lead to injury.

Here's a game that I believe is even more physical than gridiron. It's rugby league in which all players are an amalgum of running back and line-backer. This is the sort of stuff you see in the game:



Despite this the one collision that is instantly punished is the trip - shin on shin, precisely the collision most experienced in soccer. It's a leg-breaker and banned even from this very violent game.

[rowech]

I swear that was The Rock!

[Icy]

Yeah Aussie rugby is for sure the sport with more contact (besides fighting) and it's all without any kind of protection. I enjoy watching it from time to time even when i still don't understand all the rules.

[MrBug708]

The World Cup Final shattered U.S. ratings records on Sunday, drawing 24.3 million U.S. viewers. Domestically, that makes it the most-watched soccer game of all time, according to Nielsen Media Research.

World Cup Final: Most-watched soccer game ever! -- The Live Feed | THR

Through five games of national ratings, The Finals have averaged 16,155,000 viewers and a 9.6 rating, the highest five-game averages since 2004 (Pistons/Lakers). The Finals' viewership is up 13 percent (vs. 14,347,000 viewers) and ratings are up 14 percent (vs. 8.4) vs. last year (Lakers/Magic).

NBA.com: NBA Finals deliver sixth straight primetime win for ABC

But no one watches soccer

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

World Cup Final: Most-watched soccer game ever! -- The Live Feed | THR



NBA.com: NBA Finals deliver sixth straight primetime win for ABC

That's awesome. JIMGA, is that outdrawing the World Series now?

[MrBug708]

http://www.socceramerica.com/article...cup-final.html

Impressive %'s from other countries

[Butter]

For those of you going through withdrawal, the Women's U-20 World Cup is underway, with the USA taking to the field tomorrow v. Ghana. The American games and a select few others are going to be on American TV... via ESPNU and Fox Soccer Channel, I believe... unless I am remembering incorrectly.

[MIJB#19]

Fwiw, it looks like the World Cup final broke the national record over here, with 8.5M viewers (>90% of the tv viewing people). The all-inclusive number (bars, big screens, etc) dds up to 12.3M, roughly 75% of the entire population, which apparently was only second to the viewing audience of the semifinal vs Uruguay.

Also, about 700K people decided to cheer in our soccer team, which got honored in Amsterdam for their achievement. Nobody seems to care how about the horrible display of football, it was almost like we didn't lose the final.

Almost...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

That's awesome. JIMGA, is that outdrawing the World Series now?

Not in English speaking viewers I don't believe (IIRC from the numbers I saw earlier, only 15 million'ish of the viewers were on ABC, the rest were Univision).

That's about where the Phillies - Rays were for Games 4 & 5 '08, 14% to 50% below the ratings for last year's Yankees-Phillies.
World Series television ratings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[cartman]

Dear Leader welcomed back his triumphant conquerors to Best Korea with a great public showing.

North Korean football team shamed in six-hour public inquiry over World Cup - Telegraph

[flere-imsaho]

I'm surprised some of those guys didn't defect when they had the chance.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I'm surprised some of those guys didn't defect when they had the chance.

That's why I find NK so fascinating; a lot of those people truly believe it's the greatest country on earth. Of course the whole 800 calories a day thing probably makes rational thinking a little hard.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

That's why I find NK so fascinating; a lot of those people truly believe it's the greatest country on earth. Of course the whole 800 calories a day thing probably makes rational thinking a little hard.

on another note it´s quite propably that quite a few would defect if they wouldn´t know that this wouldn´t bode well for their families and friends back home, don´t have to be delusional to be afraid ...

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Yes - personally I'd have chosen Steve Copell myself:

Steve Coppell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He's a VERY intelligent tactical manager, he has never shirked from making hard decisions. If you wonder why I'm so impressed by a manager who has never won European trophies, bear in mind that (1) He managed Brighton for a while so I know him well (we were crap BUT under him we were organised and did well, he analysed every opposition team and ensured that we played in a way which showed our strengths and their weaknesses), (2) when managing Crystal Palace (the last time) in the Championship they were literally bankrupt ..... despite this he took Palace to the verge of the play-offs ... thats pretty darn impressive imho.

Or if you don't mind a manager who isn't English - Martin O'Neil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O'Neill).

Fabio Cappello has to be shaking in his boots. Both of your nominations for the new England manager are available

Steve Coppell resigns as Bristol City manager - Telegraph