10-07-2010, 04:39 PM | #1 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
|
ESPN.COM article about the "Fifth down" game..
I considered entitling this: "Ping: MBBF *ducks*, but.. rather interesting story behind the Fifth Down game and its fallout.
ESPN - OTL: Fifth-and-goal - E-ticket
__________________
Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com |
||
10-07-2010, 04:49 PM | #2 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
It's interesting - was this a travesty, or was it a classic college football moment? I really think it was the latter. Which definitely explains why I'm generally against instant replay, and I've never felt the desire to murder a ref after a bad call. A sports world where everything went perfectly from the administrative/officiating point of view would be pretty boring to me.
Sports has an entertainment aspect, and a competition aspect, and I've never been able to see sports as just true competition, because it's really just manufactured competition. Sports is rarely man v. man, or country v. country, there's a huge random element that puts people on different teams and different times. I mean, why is it so damn important that Missouri beat Colorado anyway? They're just a bunch of random people distributed to different teams largely through chance. The fact that that randomness exists makes sports largely entertainment to me, rather than a competition where I'm going to think a referee mistake is some kind of unforgiveable, moral sin. Last edited by molson : 10-07-2010 at 04:52 PM. |
10-07-2010, 04:51 PM | #3 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
|
I'd rather the game was decided BY the players, not by a mistake.
__________________
Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com |
10-07-2010, 04:56 PM | #4 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
But the players made probably hundreds of mistakes in that game. And the teams made hundreds of mistakes recruiting the wrong players or starting the wrong players. And some players weren't there because they were injured, or they transfered to another school. Some of the players might have been there because they took the right performance ehancing drugs, or because they got paid by a booster, or because another team's booster didn't pay them enough. Some of the players might have played poorly because they were sick, or because their girlfriend dumped them the night before. It's all pretty much a crapshoot anyway. Why is it that in all this chaos, a referee making a MISTAKE is this one, crazy, unforgiveable thing, that we consider forever, more important than any of the millions of elements that went into the outcome of that game between teams and players who are all there kind of randomly in the first place? Maybe too deep. Good article. Last edited by molson : 10-07-2010 at 04:59 PM. |
|
10-07-2010, 04:58 PM | #5 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
|
because the fans pay to see the players contest the game, and not the referees try for a perfect game? (Although Ed Hoculi seems to have demollished that..)
__________________
Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com |
10-07-2010, 05:03 PM | #6 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
It was also always crazy to me that Missouri was pretty much just like, "ya, this is 5th down, but hey, whatever." Easy to judge in retrospect, of course, but if they ran off the field (and onto the field from the bench) after the 4th down spike, the refs might have straightened it out.
|
10-07-2010, 05:06 PM | #7 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
|
I think also that it's because this wasn't a judgment call. This was not The Tuck Rule, or the Holy Roller, or even stuff like the Snowplow game. This is the fundamental, basic rules of the game. You have four downs to make ten yards (or to score if you are inside the ten). The last MAJOR time it happened, the team benefiting from the fifth down forfeited the game (1940)
__________________
Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com |
10-07-2010, 05:10 PM | #8 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
10-07-2010, 05:11 PM | #9 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
It's a part of history. It really wouldn't have changed Mizzou as a program. It obviously was much bigger for Colorado given how the rest of their year panned out. It seems so long ago.
|
10-07-2010, 05:17 PM | #10 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
It's entertaining. I think this outcome would have been INCREDIBLE if it happened in a national championship game. Just unbelievably entertaining. (As long as I believed that it was in fact, a mistake - same as a dropped pass or something - and not say, gambler intervention). Last edited by molson : 10-07-2010 at 05:21 PM. |
|
10-07-2010, 05:24 PM | #11 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
|
The interesting thing is that the downs guy, who started the chain of events, by not confirming third down.. still runs the downs stick at Mizzou 20 years later.
__________________
Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com |
10-07-2010, 05:26 PM | #12 |
Torchbearer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: On Lake Harriet
|
If McCartney hadn't been such a douche following the game, it would be much easier to call it a piece of college football history.
|
10-07-2010, 05:27 PM | #13 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
And I'm sure if this happened today, he'd have been fired immediately, and probably wouldn't work again in college football again. |
|
10-07-2010, 05:30 PM | #14 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
|
Believe it or not, in the story, one of the refs of the game was being watched by the NFL for a possible NFL job.. needless to say he never got the call.
__________________
Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com |
10-07-2010, 05:31 PM | #15 | |
Torchbearer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: On Lake Harriet
|
Quote:
Why? It wasn't his fault. By rule, he can't change the marker until told to do so by the refs on the field. The down marker is there for convenience; the referees are responsible for tracking the downs. |
|
10-07-2010, 05:33 PM | #16 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA
|
Quote:
I'm a headlinesman in college and part of my instructions to my box guy are to repeat the down to me each and every time I come back to the sideline. Those chain guys are technically part of the crew...the refs should have caught it but the box guy is not completely blameless. |
|
10-07-2010, 05:54 PM | #17 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Catonsville, MD
|
Quote:
That was an amazingly awesome post molson. One of the best arguments for anything I've seen in a long time. You convinced me of your point
__________________
Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent |
|
10-07-2010, 06:14 PM | #18 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
|
Quote:
Well it did partially decide a national championship but I am with you there on the general message. I think Mizzou fans would tell you they are more upset about the Nebraska kicked ball (again another national championship saving fluke) then the fifth down just because we actually had a really good team that year and it kind of took the wind out of our sails. The fifth down year our team wasn't anything special. |
|
10-07-2010, 06:33 PM | #19 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
|
Horrific mistake. Horrific.
I think in some cases it's overblown how important it was though. Watch the You Tube clip. The announcers didn't catch it. They thought it was second down and was telling Johnson to spike the ball. The key thing is that CU got the spike play off. With 2 seconds to spare. If the marker is correct, they run an actual play, not spike the ball. Would the play have scored a TD? We'll never know. But it is important to note CU would have been able to run that play. It likely wouldn't have been much different of a play than the one they actually ran for the winning score. It's the one part of that play I think is continually missed. If the marker is right, CU runs everything differently. Still, it was a disaster. A complete blown call and I don't care what molson says, calls should never decide games like that. Ever. The players should be the ones deciding the game. The fact the refs screwed up and CU didn't run a phrantic play with 2 seconds left instead of spiking the ball is a travesty. |
10-07-2010, 06:46 PM | #20 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
|
I read that article before seeing the link here, and what it reminded me that I had forgotten was the role of the spike rule being new.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
10-07-2010, 07:14 PM | #21 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
|
|
10-08-2010, 02:13 PM | #22 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Budapest
|
I remember watching Sports Center a while back, and there was a DH at the plate who reached a count of 4-2. He then doubled to the gap. Anyone remember that?
__________________
What the hell is Mike Brown diagramming for them during timeouts? Is he like the guy from "Memento" or something? Guys, I just thought of something … what if we ran a high screen for LeBron? |
10-08-2010, 02:26 PM | #23 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI
|
Quote:
And really, that's the only thing I took away from the story. I don't look back at that game and rage - probably in large part because I had no experience of Mizzou when it happened - but McCartney's rant makes me twitch. It almost feels like a search for justification. And then to apologize 20 years later? If it took you that long, it's not an apology. It's more justification. |
|
10-08-2010, 06:29 PM | #24 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
|
Oh the memories... *shudders*
Great read though... |
10-08-2010, 07:00 PM | #25 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
I always thought the worst part wasn't that they got five downs. The worst part was that it was obvious that they didn't break the goal line on that fifth down run. He was down before the ball was stretched across the goal line. If you ask most Mizzou defenders who were on the field for that final play, that was their biggest beef with the end result.
|
10-10-2010, 01:27 PM | #26 | ||||||
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
Quote:
It probably changed the course of some other moments too. Gary Barnett desperately wanted to be head coach at Missouri, and a big reason he never got the job is that a lot of people didn't want anyone associated with the Fifth Down from Colorado running the program. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The Columbia newspaper has a perfect photo of Johnson on his back with the ball short of the goal line. SI has a photo after he rollover with the ball in the endzone. It was clear he was down. I've put on a few pounds over the years, but I talked my wife into wearing my Fifth Down t-shirt to the game yesterday with the scoreboard on the back showing Missouri winning the game 31-27. I for one am VERY SAD to see Colorado go to the Pac 10. Gary Pinkel has Dan Hawkins number. No one has beat the crap out of Colorado more the last five years than Missouri. |
||||||
10-12-2010, 08:55 AM | #27 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Location, Location, Location
|
Quote:
What is comical about the refs enforcing the Intentional Grounding rule? Is that not what this thread is all about, refs doing a better job?
__________________
"The case of Great Britain is the most astonishing in this matter of inequality of rights in world soccer championships. The way they explained it to me as a child, God is one but He's three: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I could never understand it. And I still don't understand why Great Britain is one but she's four....while [others] continue to be no more than one despite the diverse nationalities that make them up." Eduardo Galeano, SOCCER IN SUN AND SHADOW |
|
10-12-2010, 09:00 AM | #28 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
|
|
10-12-2010, 09:57 AM | #29 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
|
Quote:
The players and referees perform different functions. The players are for entertainment, and the officials are for enforcing rules. Compelling drama comes from watching players perform under pressure and throughout the game to determine the outcome. An official's job is simply to observe the game and "record," if you will, what the players do. They use judgment when necessary, but only in interpreting and carrying out the rules of the game.Therefore, their mistakes should not be a part of the game, because they have no role in the game for either team, nor a stake in the outcome of the game.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
|
10-12-2010, 10:29 AM | #30 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
Good luck with that though - the refs are going to make mistakes. Lots of them, every game, just like everyone else associated with the game. (and the greater our TV technology gets, the more of those mistakes you're going to catch - I don't buy for a second that referees are worse now than any other time, they're actually probably much better because of the greater scrutiny) You can either be tortured by that evey game you watch (like TroyF, who I kind of feel bad for, he always sounds miserable in any football thread) or just accept it as part of the game, and even enjoy the very-rare "fifth down" kind of situation as a part of college football history. My choice is the latter, that's all. Last edited by molson : 10-12-2010 at 10:38 AM. |
|
10-12-2010, 10:54 AM | #31 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
|
What Ksyrup said.
Yeah, molson, I understand officials make mistakes. But when the technology is there to correct them, it should be used. On the other side of it, there ARE some incompetent refs out there who consistently suck. We know who a lot of those guys/girls are. (yes, I'm looking at you Violet, you are one of the top five worst refs in all of sports) We also see plenty of calls that are "decisions", not missed calls. An example is a ref calling the game differently with 10 seconds left in a basketball game vs. how he has called it the rest of the game. We see this on a game to game basis in all sports. Those type of things need to be purged from the game. To most people the Jordan shot over Russell was a moment frozen in time. A wonderous, beautiful thing for all of sports. I see a group of officials who simply chose not to follow the rules of the game. They didn't "miss" the call. They chose not to call the clear offensive foul on Michael Jordan. You don't have to feel sorry for me. I enjoy sports immensely and even when the refs blow call after call, I still love watching the games. I always will. I will also always crusade for better reffing, more use of technology to get things right and more consistency in the enforcement of the rules from crew to crew. As Ksyrup said, the job of the refs is to be an impartial observer and enforce rules when they are broke. It's not to decide the outcome of a game by making improper calls (Jeffrey Mayer turning an out into a HR) or worse, by making a decision to call something one way. (Jordan's shot, Pippen getting abused by every Knick, including those on the bench) etc. |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
|
|