Kerry wins again

[NoMyths]

I heart yabanci and Vegas Vic.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

I heart yabanci and Vegas Vic.

Ouch.

[Bubba Wheels]

So the real reason we invaded Iraq was so that we would not be cut-off by foreign interests for oil in the near future and tank our economy thereby causing a new U.S. depression that would make the 1930's look like Shang-Ri-La! Why, those dastardly politicians! When will they learn that the U.S. must ALWAYS be subserviant to foreign (especially 3rd world country) interests on ALL levels!

[Buddy Grant]

Originally Posted by Dutch

We have recovered quite a bit of documentation about WMD in Iraq. Some of which shows activity in trying to build nuclear weapons, perhaps as early as 2007 they could have had one. There is still the missing stockpiles the UN accounted for in 1991 but can't now. The Iraqi's were very capable and disciplined in inventoring their stash then, but the paper trail suddenly died when it came time for destruction? What's up with that?

Adam West: "Poor, deluded child."

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Buddy Grant

Adam West: "Poor, deluded child."

Let's see. There were weapons. (We know this because they were used in the past and there were stockpiles documented after the first Gulf War.) Almost everyone, including Saddam and almost every major US politician, believed he still had them. Now we can't find them. This is a problem. This is a very big problem, but let's look at the possible explanations. Either he never had them in the first place (probably true to an extent, but let's not forget he used them in the past), he moved/hid them and they are still out there (quite possible, Kay seemed to think Syria had some) or Saddam destroyed them all and instead of showing the proof to the UN so he could have sanctions lifted and begin exporting oil he chose to perpetuate a myth that became the expressed rationale for a war to remove him. I don't buy number three.

Now, maybe Dutch is overstating the potential timeline for getting nuclear weapons, but I just don't see how that quote shows him to be deluded.

[Dutch]

MCCAIN: So the point is, if he were in power today, there is no doubt that he would harbor ambitions for the development and use of weapons of mass destruction. Is there any doubt in your mind?

KAY: There's absolutely no doubt. And I think I've said that, Senator.

I'm guessing his opinion is worth more than mine.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Now, maybe Dutch is overstating the potential timeline for getting nuclear weapons, but I just don't see how that quote shows him to be deluded.

Actually, it's not an overstatement, the IAEA stated that Iraq was about 12-18 months away from developing it's first crude nuclear weapon. And that was back in 1989! Or course, 1990 kind of screwed up the timetable somewhat. I think it was Kay or Tenet that threw 2007 out there.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Actually, it's not an overstatement, the IAEA stated that Iraq was about 12-18 months away from developing it's first crude nuclear weapon. And that was back in 1989! Or course, 1990 kind of screwed up the timetable somewhat. I think it was Kay or Tenet that threw 2007 out there.

At best it's a guess, versus the other facts you listed. So I figured I'd point that out so Buddy Grant can show us what was wrong in the rest of the statement rather than arguing about that tree.

Since this is a thread about Kerry, here is a decent op-ed piece that summarizes some of my problems with his foreign policy. hxxp://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/040216/opinion/16barone.htm I didn't really follow the last paragraph as much, but the rest of the piece pointed out some of the contradictions that Kerry has with regards to foreign policy.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

At best it's a guess, versus the other facts you listed. So I figured I'd point that out so Buddy Grant can show us what was wrong in the rest of the statement rather than arguing about that tree.

Fair enough, I only wanted to point out that the timetable was decided by US and UN nuclear weapons inspectors. Hoping to give it some validity beyond what George Bush says.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Almost everyone, including Saddam and almost every major US politician, believed he still had them.

Almost everyone except the weapons inspectors...

Not Everyone Got It Wrong On Iraq's WMD's

Of course, nobody paid attention to them. They only spent time in Iraq actually looking for the WMD's...

[Dutch]

Mojo Jojo,

You are completely overlooking the idea behind weapons inspectors. They went in to inspect the weapons, not to detect them. This has been stated plenty times too many.

[CamEdwards]

And mojo, the inspectors seemed to have missed dozens of violations of UN Resolutions 687 and 1441 that David Kay and the Iraq Survey Group were able to turn up.

[CamEdwards]

dola: I just realized that story you linked to was written by Scott Ritter. I didn't even need to read any more.

[Dutch]

Good catch, Cam.

[Buccaneer]

Another example of stupid rhetoric

"People want change in the country," the Massachusetts lawmaker told The Associated Press. "They want to move forward in a new direction, and I think I'm articulating what that new direction can be. It's crossing all lines ... without regard to region and other labels."

Imagine that. Democrats in their primaries and caucases are voting for a.....Democrat (instead of incumbant Bush)!!! Do you think that any of the Dem candidates could have said the same thing? You better hope that someone fed him those lines otherwise he's as dumb as he looks.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

by most accounts, (Wesley) Clark was a pompous, arrogant and condescending general who was disliked by most of his men and possibly was relieved of his command because he almost started a war with the Russians.

Same story I heard about Pristina Airfield, although from an American SF point of view - James Blunt 'stopped World War 3' after refusing to destroy Russian forces | Mail Online

Blunt, a former cavalry officer in the British Army, was leading a NATO column under order to seize the Pristina airfield in Kosovo in 1999.
Facing a 200-strong Russian advance, the then- 25-year-old was given orders to 'destroy' the Russian troops by the Supreme Allied Commander of the NATO Forces in Europe.

...
'The direct command came in from General Wesley Clark was to overpower them. Various words were used that seemed unusual to us. Words such as "destroy" came down the radio.'

Thank god he never ended up near the Oval Office.