Mafia II

[Buccaneer]

As some of you know, Mafia is in my top 5 favorite games of all time (up there with the Civ, Gothic, Impressions series). No game have I ever played had better storytelling than Mafia. We have discussed the strengths and weaknesses here but to this day, I can visual and feel that world and the emotions I had playing through that wonderful cinematic story. Anyways, I just found out (belatedly) that there will be a Mafia II. Here is the link to a few screenshots but check out the trailer.

http://www.2kgames.com/mafia2/home.html

My fervant wish is that this remain a PC game with ports to the consoles (as oppose to the other way around like with that awful Godfather PC game). From what I've read, the console port of Mafia wasn't done well but the PC, with its add-ons, were great.

I also heard that this game is scheduled for release Fall of 2008.

[sabotai]

"No....he's in the trunk."

Haha.

[Calis]

I'm with you on that one Bucc. One of my all-time favorite games, and just amazing atmosphere. The world really sucked you in. I spent a lot of time just driving around and taking it all in. Very very cool game, and I hope they don't change things up too much. I keep trying to reinstall it and play through again but for some reason the install just hangs up on me, aggravating.

I'm also a huge fan of Vietcong which was their next effort after Mafia. Hugely under looked game, and while it had quite a few technical issues it's one of my all-time favorite shooters because of once again the atmosphere. The firefights felt like what a firefight should. Great game..apart from the tunnel levels.

So yeah, I'll buy anything they put out.

[SunDevil]

FYI,

Here is the wiki entry for the Mafia game, with a list of mods that were made for the original game toward the bottom of the page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia:_...of_Lost_Heaven

Also a link to the best Mafia fan site.

http://mafiascene.com/index.php
http://mafiascene.com/forum/

[Buccaneer]

I spent a lot of time just driving around and taking it all in.

I think you nailed it. In any of the FP 3D games that I play, just wandering around in such a world is one of the best gameplay experiences. Some have complained about the amount of driving in Mafia (like going back to the bar after completing a mission) but that was the best part! You just fought your way through an intense firefight and finally succeeded (breathing a sigh a relief when the autosave kicks in). Your heart is still pumping fast and there's nothing more than you want than a nice ride back to the bar to settle you down. The sun would be setting and you hear a clarinet playing a soft swing to set the mood. You would be driving back on familiar roads, recalling what you just went through, then all of a sudden, you pass a building that you remembered from an earlier mission. You think to yourself, "that seems like ages ago when I did that". You know when you get back, the Don would have something new to say and an interesting job for you to do...

[MizzouRah]

Never played it, but it sounds like something I would enjoy.

[the_meanstrosity]

I loved Mafia and it looks like I'll love Mafia II as well. Definitely on my list of must have games when it comes out.

[panerd]

Anyone have any info on this? Is there another thread or has the long wait time for the release made people give up on it?

[Scoobz0202]

There was a couple posts in the video game thread about the initial reviews being meh but no first hand accounts.

[panerd]

Here's hoping one of the FOFC takes the plunge tomorrow so I know whether to lay down $60 this weekend. I am easily impressed by graphics and "cool" features so I usually shy away from magazine reviews.

[Buccaneer]

If I recall, a demo has been out a couple of weeks and generally, the Mafia fans thought the game was well done (if you have the horsepower).

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by panerd

Here's hoping one of the FOFC takes the plunge tomorrow so I know whether to lay down $60 this weekend. I am easily impressed by graphics and "cool" features so I usually shy away from magazine reviews.

I preordered on Steam after playing the demo, looks like it will unlock in 3 hours but there's no preload option. If the download finished before I got to bed I'll try to post some impressions.

[Terps]

Never played the first one, but I'm about to fire up Mafia II in a few minutes.

[panerd]

Definitely looking forward to hearing your guys first thoughts.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, this is one I've been on the fence about.

[RomaGoth]

I vaguely remember playing Mafia a couple of years ago and getting frustrated at the mission where I had to drive around and do things within a certain time limit or something. Was that an anomaly for this game or the norm? I say this because I remember having high expectations for it and really liking the concept.

[Dutch]

I don't recall Mafia being overly frustrating with timelimits. Maybe one or two tricky parts to get through.

I still love the scene where the guy bashes in my window with a baseball bat while I'm chillin in the parking lot pondering something. I almost fell out of my chair!

[Dutch]

Damn, I'll have to add Mafia II to my queue but I've still got Fallout 3, Dragon Age, DA-Originas, Mass Effect, and Mass Effect 2 still to go. That could take me a year!

[mckerney]

I've been enjoying it so far. If you pick it up expecting an open world sandbox game like GTA you'll end up disappointed, but it is a fun linear mob story. Combat control is good for a third person shooter on PC, though I have been a bit disappointed feeling there's too much melee combat rather than gun fights in some parts. Driving controls are decent enough with a mouse and keyboard too, there have only been a couple parts where I needed to use an XBox controller for driving missions. It does feel like there's a little too much driving between missions for there not being much to do in the open world, and the police can be a bit of an annoyance when you're driving a bit to fast too or from a mission (and then they'll completely ignore you in some of the car chases where your passengers are shooting). You do get a route to your objective on the minimap which is a nice feature that I'd wanted in the original.

If you liked the original or the demo you should like the game, but it does seem to be a bit short, I'm about 13 hours in and I've completed 12 of the 14 or 15 chapters in the game, so unless one of the last few is longer I don't see it taking that long to complete. It may be best to wait a bit for a sale if your looking to get your moneys worth. It probably won't be that long until Steam has a decent deal on it.

[MizzouRah]

Thanks mckerney.. I'm going to pick it up used on the x360 when the price comes down.

[Buccaneer]

Thanks mckerney, what you said is right in line with most of the impressions on the 2K forum.

The thing that had always bothered me when they first talked about this was the blurring of the consoles and PC versions. In Mafia I, the difference was very pronounced but in reading the forum, I don't know which version anyone is playing (unless they specifically mentioned it). I have never believed that a PC game should have consoles controls, or need to have. That's what ruined Godfather PC.

Just like in the first game, some have criticized the driving between missions. I have found that to be the most fun part of Mafia and was glad that they kept some of that in version 2. I also read that one can take your time on some driving parts, exploring the city, and I really look forward to that.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Thanks mckerney, what you said is right in line with most of the impressions on the 2K forum.

The thing that had always bothered me when they first talked about this was the blurring of the consoles and PC versions. In Mafia I, the difference was very pronounced but in reading the forum, I don't know which version anyone is playing (unless they specifically mentioned it). I have never believed that a PC game should have consoles controls, or need to have. That's what ruined Godfather PC.

Just like in the first game, some have criticized the driving between missions. I have found that to be the most fun part of Mafia and was glad that they kept some of that in version 2. I also read that one can take your time on some driving parts, exploring the city, and I really look forward to that.

I was pretty happy with the controls. I've definitely played some third person shooters that were clearly designed only for a game pad and keyboard implementation was terrible, though never felt this way with Mafia 2. The only parts where there were I had difficulty with the controls were a few times moving in cover, though it didn't happen all that often. Needing to use a gamepad for a few of the driving parts is understandable to me, it wasn't due to the controls were poorly designed for driving but rather the limitations of steering with a keyboard.

And yes there are points where you're free to drive around the city before or after missions. I didn't do much exploring because I didn't feel like there was much to explore. There were the Playboys and wanted posters to find, which just felt weird because there weren't any other reasons to look around. Parts of the city were beautifully done, but personally I never felt there was anything worth doing.

As far as length goes I wound up beating the game in 17 hours on hard mode, and there's not a whole lot of immediate replay value to it. I could definitely see giving it another play through in the future in the same way I'd want to rewatch a good movie, but I don't think there's really anything new I'd find in it like I might replaying a game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age.

If playing a shooter with a story like a mob movie interest you I'd really recommend it, but it's probably worth $25-$30 rather than $50 or $60.

[Buccaneer]

My god, it has gotten out of control. Basically, 2K cut a lot out of the game (like many features/scenes that were previously shown, as well as 115 missions), only to start feeding some of them through DLC.

While the game has gotten good reviews and many enjoyed it despite how "short" it is, the forum has become a minefield -to the point that they started locking most of the threads, even many long ones.

[mckerney]

If anyone was waiting for a sale on this one on PC it's $7.50 on Steam this week

[Buccaneer]

I saw Mafia 2 mentioned in the Game Discounts thread and realized I never gave my review here, fwiw.

**SPOILERS

Much of my reactions to Mafia II are due to not having played any of the newer FPS/action games that have come out in the past 5 years or so, and only play the older action games on the PC like MoH/CoD and of course, Mafia I for the past 8 years.

Given that, I was astounded at the quality of graphics and the attention to detail of everything in Empire Bay (I'm playing with most things at Highest detail). I guess I should have realized that was where we would see the greatest gaming advances in 8 years. Of what little I caught around release time, I had the impression that despite a large city, you couldn't go to many places. That was not true; there were several missions that I did a lot of Free Ride (on the way to or from home/Joe's). This was particularly true after the ice chapters and the world opened up into a bright, fun place to be. I even took the time to walk for miles, just to explore some of the alleys, side streets and neighborhoods (there was some interesting stuff going on in Sand Island). Seeing ethnic diversity was great, made the different neighborhoods come alive compared to the boring sameness of CoLH.

I think some have complained about the lack of a country side. I agree with that, it would have been nice to explore such areas, esp. small roads that you don't know where they will lead to. But I think the city itself makes up for it, far richer and more detailed/diverse than CoLH. And adding the weather effects was superb, that alone made the immersion.

At first, the world was bewildering, not to mention dark and cold. But revisiting those early places in 1951 was fun, in a nostalgic kind of way. I do like the additions of stores and stuff to go into, despite not really needing to do much of that. Adding money was good but except in the early chapters, was basically a waste of effort.

Moving around the city was fine, a little more challenging than Mafia I but that made getaways more interesting. I was quite impressed at how much better the AI drivers were in this game; as well as having far more intelligent cops than the stupid ones in Mafia I. I take my time driving (except in chases) and kept speed under control, and being careful when I see a cop car around. Makes things more interesting, imo. I do miss having the other cars showing up on the radar but I really didn't need them.

The characters in the game that I interacted with were phenomenal. Joe alone had more character and style than both Paulie and Sam combined. But I really disappointed with Vito. With so much characterization of Joe, Eddie, Marty and everyone else, why did the main character have to be a mannequin??

As far as the missions, I got my money's worth out of them; about 15-20 hours. I don't play like some hyperactive console gamer, which probably made me appreciate the scenery and immersion more. However, I would expect the complexity of the missions to have improved in 8 years but they didn't. While I love the continuity of the chapters in the each of the two years (as oppose to jumping 1-3 years ahead each time), some of the chapters could've been combined into one. Once the action started, sometimes all I had to do was to kill 5-7 bad guys; and it leads you by the hand every step of the way. Then I would go home or back to Joe's. I guess there has to be a balanced between running errands (i.e., needing A and B before you get C, which leads to D, etc.) and straight shooting. But I would think you can design something cleverer that, requiring analytical thinking but I guess action gamers don't want that.

It did get a little dicey in the docks, as well as having to get a little help knowing which way to go in the slaughterhouse but other than that, everything was easy. Fun, but easy.

A word about chapter 14. I heard rumors about Tommy being in the game. When I saw the red car, I knew what was coming. That was the longest drive I've ever taken, dreading the whole way. That was a bonus and a clever hook. I did like that the Feds were immediately all over me, which made it a good twist than was known in Mafia I.

As far as the story arc, it was enough to make me want to keep playing to see where it ends up. I love experiencing the tangible results of Vito moving up; from the first night to Joe's couch to the small apt to the nice home and back down to Marty's dump. That's something we never had with Tommy. But getting all of the families and characters straight was a little confusing. In the end, I really stopped caring what I did and why. I just followed the red lines and looked for the red triangles.

Regarding the controls on the PC, it took me some time to get it mapped and used to them. I imagine part of the problem was the consolization of PC controls which I have a problem with. The finishing moves part was cheesy but I loved hand-to-hand fighting in this game far better than I did in Mafia I. But having to aim with one button (right-ctrl) and fire with a mouse button was different. Is this a new trend as oppose to just moving the mouse to aim? At first, I didn't like the hide or crouch thing but boy, those sure came useful once I mastered them. One of the reasons the game was easy or dumbed-down.

One final thing, I don't know about replayability. I've replayed Mafia I several times plus Free Ride Extreme many times. There's still some parts of Empire Bay I want to explore and while I would love seeing some the characters again, I don't know about doing the missions again. I guess that's why they have the DLC, huh?

Overall, I give this game a solid B+ maybe A-. The large detailed, diverse city; the interesting cars; the fun 50s music; the great, memorable characters; smarter cops; and the weather effects were the things far better than in Mafia I. And the game ran flawlessly at High details on my PC, that is amazing in these times. The short, easy missions; the mannequin main character; useless economics system; convoluted story; and consolization of PC controls were the things I did not like about Mafia II.

----

I wrote this review about a month or two ago and since then, the experience of Mafia 2 had grown on me, effecting me in a deeper way than Mafia 1 did. It is a very rich game, with many memorable scenes and places. I heard the DLCs were arcadish but at least some of the missions are in new areas of the city, previous unaccessible. I look forward to going back to Empire Bay some day and experience that incredible city again.