WW - The Princess Bride (Game Over - Wolves Win)

[The Jackal]

I tried to kill Danny the night the other wolves did, was hoping they were going to kill Telle that night, but got to keep the ability since they beat me to the kill. Otherwise I was saving it for near endgame in case I was the last wolf left and needed it.

[JAG]

I wish I could say I was a mad genius, but I was a lucky idiot. I honestly thought Autumn was on our side. EF must have been dying of laughter reading the PM's I was sending. I had basically conceded the game because there were no vanilla villagers left to convert even had we killed Buttercup at the end.

[The Jackal]

Don't you think I would have come after you guns blazing after last game if I didn't know we were on the same team?

[The Jackal]

ps thanks for not killing me

[The Jackal]

Was hoping that was enough to signal you that I might at least be the ROUS, since I think only one other person even mentioned the role this entire game.

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So, quick glance over the rules/roles.. There's 16 of us so there's no way we have 6 roled villagers, 6 roled wolves, and a neutral.

Something like 5 roled villagers, 3-4 wolves (I can see 4 if the ROUS is in), and the dread pirate roberts with 6-7 vanillas seems likely.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Sorry guys I tried to kill CF last night and Telle blocked it. I'd figured you were gonna stop Telle from using her ability and kill her, but oh well, this worked.

After Vizzini found them all, he was powerless. He could only use his power once per person, and not even on Inigo after he used the duke.

[Danny]

Good job wolves. Really wish I could have got scans in, I tried to scan Jag night 3 and then night 4 I bounced between Lathum and Jag. Completely mis-read Jackal although him being a separate wolf kind of makes sense.

[Lathum]

WTF?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by JAG

After Vizzini found them all, he was powerless. He could only use his power once per person, and not even on Inigo after he used the duke.

That makes sense. I figured something like that would have to be in place otherwise it would've been too powerful. I was gonna kill Narcizo, should've just done that and the game would've been over last night.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

ps thanks for not killing me

At least you were never a serious NK target, though I did PM Lathum I was going to try to get you lynched Sunday since we knew Mau wasn't Buttercup.

[Lathum]

JAG was pretty convinced on Autumn but I actuall thought he was the princess based on his behavior today but JAG had followed the game much closer so I trusted his read. He certainly deserves most of the credit for the win.

[The Jackal]

I scanned you N3 and lathum N5, I really didn't think Lathum was a wolf.

Think my scans were..

N1: Mau
N2: Danny
N3: JAG
N4: Autumn
N5: Lathum

I was pretty convinced early on that I was going to scan the cunning and kill him by accident, but as the game went on I realized cunning and brutal would've been too powerful.

[Lathum]

FWIW we thought the deck was seriously stacked against us, we got very lucky people didn't look to closely at us.

[JAG]

When did you scan us Jackal?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by JAG

When did you scan us Jackal?

posted above, you N3 and lathum N5

[The Jackal]

i gotta run to the store, ill be back later to discuss. glad this whole fake reveal worked out!

[The Jackal]

Oh, and sorry Autumn.

[The Jackal]

Posted for fun, and for hatred of random.org:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I hate you

But it's so awesome.

Do the wolves know who I am? Wonder how long it will take for me to be killed.

[mauchow]

Hmmm. My guts were pretty spot on. Fools!

[Lathum]

Cant remember the last time I made it to the end as a wolf. I may need to play under the radar more often

[Telle]

Autumn's going to be so pissed when he gets back at 9....

[EagleFan]

So many interesting things going on in the PM's in this game.

The wolves were going to kill Autumn on night one but then made a late change.

Then at the end JAG was correct that I was laughing at the PM's as he was convinced that Autumn was the ROUS and Jackal was the Princess. Then his late change yesterday to save Autumn almost put their game in jeopardy.

I believe the wolves hated the DPR angle too, though that actually kept costing the village because that meant a day without getting to use the ability of the player which was 'converted'.

JAG was extremely lucky this game too. It seems that the seer scan or the Inigo scan kept having his name second as the conditional. But then instead of moving up he stayed 2nd. Until Danny was going to scan him the night he was NK'd.

Jackal had bad luck. First he was going to go after Danny but the wolves took him out. Actually rolled that one up giving it a 50/50 shot at who got to Danny first and he lost out. He sent his strategy for going after Danny and he had the same strategy that the wolves had for making that choice, each hoping the other would go after Telle. Then he makes an attempt last night and got blocked, thus losing his NK ability.

[The Jackal]

Being a lone wolf is very lonely. The only person I can talk to is the GM and he can't respond!

[JAG]

After the wheelbarrow kill failed, I was sure we had no chance to win, but then Danny announced that he blocked an NK on himself and the BG outed themselves...pretty crazy luck.

[Autumn]

No, I'm not mad. I already knew I'd be coming home to seeing a massacre, though I held out some hope there wouldn't be a conversion and you guys could pull it out the last two days.

I never even truly considered that ROUS could be in the game. At first blush it feels a little lopsided to have Dread Pirate who was screwing with us all game, and a lone wolf as well, considering that Buttercup essentially counted as a partial wolf since she only benefited them potentially.

I understand why you went ahead with nightfall, EF, I wasn't going to bother trying to change any opinions at this point. But in general I feel like nightfall should wait for consensus. If I had come up with a great argument to sway people, or someone else had, results could have changed. The reason why as a villager I don't like voting nightfall is that it doesn't allow for people to slowly come to a realization or new opinion.

Fun, fun game.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by JAG

After the wheelbarrow kill failed, I was sure we had no chance to win, but then Danny announced that he blocked an NK on himself and the BG outed themselves...pretty crazy luck.

I don't think it was luck. You guys Vizzini scanned me that night anyway, so if I hadn't revealed, you would have just nk'ed me the next night anyway without the bg knowing who I am. The main thing that helped was Telle revealing allowing Vizzini to scan her and make sure I was night killed. Seems I was destined to never get a scan off. Too bad, I tried to scan Jag twice lol.

[Danny]

I really thought I would be able to get my scan of Jag off which I why I backed off him as a candidate, but I should have pushed for him and scanned Lathum who was my second choice.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Danny

I don't think it was luck. You guys Vizzini scanned me that night anyway, so if I hadn't revealed, you would have just nk'ed me the next night anyway without the bg knowing who I am. The main thing that helped was Telle revealing allowing Vizzini to scan her and make sure I was night killed. Seems I was destined to never get a scan off. Too bad, I tried to scan Jag twice lol.

Oh yeah, that's a good point. Except that we didn't know you had used your one time protection until you revealed that.

[Autumn]

I'm debating whether I should stay up late enough tonight for Narcizo to show up.

[Autumn]

I thought it was a great ruleset, EF. I'm not sure of the balance necessarily, with this number. What what i liked was that there were a lot fo fun wrinkles with each role without turning it into a "I don't know what's going on in this game" sort of ruleset.

The Dread Pirate Roberts thing, if I understand it, was a fantastic idea, though maybe should have been offset more by some way to avoid it prevent it. At end game with people revealing it turned into a bit of a mess there. I also would have loved some ability for Buttercup that would offset her being such a pansy. This will definitely be a fun one to run again with all the roles involved.

[PackerFanatic]

Whose idea was it to NK me night 2? Seemed fairly random and damned lucky.

[Zinto]

I think we forgot the key rule to werewolf lynch Jackal on day one since he is always a wolf

[The Jackal]

About time I had a signature, thanks Zinto.

[bhlloy]

I'd love to know why I was NK'ed on day 1 as well, if you don't mind.

[JAG]

I can tell you we were complaining to ourselves about the balance almost the whole game because there were so many ways to keep the seer alive even after they had revealed (one-time protection, the cloak, BG, Miracle Max), plus there was even a secondary seer in Inigo. But in retrospect it sounds silly since the only wolf that was voted off was the one that was scanned.

Oh yeah, I mentioned that bhlloy might've had a role which is why he died N1 (another great call), PF was because Pass voted for him and people seemed pretty trusting of him after Pass had pushed for him a bit, day 3 was Narcizo, day 4 Danny, day 5 was frankly a mistake with the Bug kill. We thought we were taking a shot for the win because he was the Princess and if not, at least we wouldn't overlap with "Autumn's kill". The one good call I made we didn't go ahead with, which was to kill Narcizo who I thought might've swapped with CF, instead of going for Telle or CF, who I thought were the most likely targets to be guarded. After Bug was vanilla and we didn't get an extra kill in, I thought we were sunk. I'm sure Jackal was pretty amused watching events unfold the last couple days, other than EF he was the only one who really knew what was going on.

[EagleFan]

What I also found interesting is that all the vanillas were being killed off. The wolves kept hoping for conversion and their chances kept slipping away.... and they had Autumn set at their night one kill before a relatively late change, to a vanilla.

[EagleFan]

The numbers game made this difficult to balance. Though since there is a wolf and a villager both saying it was tilted against them I will take that as a good sign.

I actually thought the wolves had a bit of an uphill battle. I wanted to get the ROUS in there so there would be the unknown which meant I had to go with just 3 starting wolves.

For balance I figured that the village had the seer and the Ingo scans which was like 1 1/3 seers. The wolves had the Vizzini ability which could cancel that out one time each.

The items were random, and it turned out that the wolves got one. I was hoping that it would have been someone other than Telle that got the Iocane but bad luck of the roll there as that pretty much took that item out of play.

I figured DPR would affect the village but actually only one time for the seer as it took one scan away when the 'conversion' was made. Same for the Inigo scan (but that would only be after the 2nd DPR found his target). I figured that losing the scan was offset by the seer becoming somone new which actually could hurt the wolves even more. It just happened that the seer came out day 2 which made DPR's job easy. Then CF used his ability which made DPR 2's job just as easy.

If we had about 25 players I think this could have turned out really well. For the DPR stuff there was going to be a long list of targets for DPR.

[Narcizo]

I think with Rous the game was pretty balanced. If there wasn't Rous in there I think the game would have been tipped too much in the villages favour. Considering I don't think anyone voted a wolf expect Pass on day two you've really got to say that the wolves should have walked this so, if anything, the game was slightly set in the village's favour. But having JAG, Lathum and Pass as your wolf team is always going to make for a tough game for the village.

If JAG had let Autumn die last night I would have scanned JAG. D'oh! Oh well, the game was a lot of fun - and I get my major victory condition so it's all win for me.

[Narcizo]

Hope the success Lathum and JAG had by not posting a lot doesn't see a trend of people avoiding posting when they're wolves.

[Narcizo]

I guess we pretty much lost it around the NTN/Telle vote, forcing Telle to reveal and then not finding a candidate to run against NTN.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Hope the success Lathum and JAG had by not posting a lot doesn't see a trend of people avoiding posting when they're wolves.

Honestly, it shouldn't have worked as well as it did. We should have gone after Jag much harder for sure.

[JAG]

FWIW, my schedule really did affect my posting level this game. Heck, I said pre-game I wasn't going to be around as much. I didn't correct people for the most part because I thought we would need the brutal ability, especially the last two days. I do think it was an unfortunate wolf grouping for the village though (other than Jackal who should've been killed immediately of course). Lathum and I don't usually attract early votes and this was Pass' first game since we were wolves in EF's last game, and 3 of the 4 wolves hadn't voted when Narcizo revealled D2, so there was almost nothing to glean from voting history the entire game.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I don't think anyone voted a wolf expect Pass on day two you've really got to say that the wolves should have walked this so, if anything, the game was slightly set in the village's favour.

Well, except for me voting Jackal repeatedly ...

Yeah, pretty poor voting by the village. Lathum's obviously gotten himself off the immediate scan list. The first game I ran Clap and Lathum were wolves and it was over in like two days because those days Lathum was a mandatory day one scan.

Even if Jackal had been a villager, a lynch of me causing a conversion would have lost the game unless we got a block that night, so the wolves had us bad.

[Autumn]

If I had been more convincing and we had lynched Lathum, and Telle guarded me that night, we would have lynched Jackal the next day, expecting a brutal. We would have been quite surprised to find the game wasn't over at that point. I would have been night killed and even without a conversion, game over. so I guess now that I think about it we were all done, we just didn't know it since we weren't thinking about the ROUS. I don't think there was any way to win it, unless we got a block I suppose, but that was unlikely since it was obvious Telle would need to guard Buttercup.

[Lathum]

FWIW I wasn't intentionally under the radar, I just don't have the time these days to post a lot so my style has changed drastically.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Autumn

If I had been more convincing and we had lynched Lathum, and Telle guarded me that night, we would have lynched Jackal the next day, expecting a brutal. We would have been quite surprised to find the game wasn't over at that point. I would have been night killed and even without a conversion, game over. so I guess now that I think about it we were all done, we just didn't know it since we weren't thinking about the ROUS. I don't think there was any way to win it, unless we got a block I suppose, but that was unlikely since it was obvious Telle would need to guard Buttercup.

The conversion would've only worked on a vanilla villager, and after we killed Bug there were none left so the conversion was no longer a danger. The only thing that could've won it for us was a brutal kill or what happened, since Jackal had his one time NK blocked.

[JAG]

I was actually hoping I was going to get lynched the last day and that the village would think Autumn was the brutal when I was eager to go after him. I forgot about the Inigo scan which ended up making that idea useless.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by JAG

After the wheelbarrow kill failed, I was sure we had no chance to win, but then Danny announced that he blocked an NK on himself and the BG outed themselves...pretty crazy luck.

That was my thought from the dead, too.

[Narcizo]

Yeah I was in a quandary about the cloak - I was, as usual, over-complicating things and hoping the wolves would think I was trying to trap them by saying my scan was blocked (and hence my self-protect would be off) and that they'd therefore leave me alone. Fortunately common-sense prevailed at the last moment for a change when I realised that only I might possibly read it that way so I used the cloak on myself. I think Danny was too quick a) revealing and b) using his self-protect but you know, I don't think any villager played a faultless game and he'd already met his victory condition.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I think Danny was too quick a) revealing and b) using his self-protect but you know, I don't think any villager played a faultless game and he'd already met his victory condition.

The reveal was too quick. The self protect I am not sure because I am usually killed early and wanted to make sure I got my scan of Jag off. I didn't realize the wolves would have so many ways to stop my scan (partly because the way they actually did was accidentally missing from the rules. If they weren't allowed to block my scan with Vizzini (as was listed) they would not have known I was Wesley and I would have revealed having found Jag as a wolf. Very different game from there.